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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview A-0027, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
This interview took place during Bill Clinton's unsuccessful 1974 bid for a seat representing Arkansas in the United States House of Representatives. Two years later, he ran uncontested to become the state attorney general, and in 1978 he won the governorship. Here, Clinton demonstrates his devotion to the intricacies of political maneuvering, his sense of the role of personality in politics, and his fondness for words. He seems aware that his ability to personally connect with Arkansas voters will be important as he vies for the seat, but seems uncomfortable with the idea that he will rely more on charm than on issues. He hopes that his stands on various issues will give Arkansas voters a clear picture of him as a person. The interview is packed with many specific details about Arkansas politics.
Bill Clinton discusses his victory in an Arkansas Democratic congressional primary and his upcoming race against the incumbent Republican congressman.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
And that's in part the wisdom of the strategy that Hammerschmidt and the others in the primary tried to run against me. It's just that I work hard and didn't insult too many people, so they couldn't do it. But the people, the voters, haven't felt comfortable with Fulbright in years. They haven't really wanted him but they had too much integrity to throw him out for nothing. Or to substitute nothing, you know. But that's the answer to that race.
But do they really believe that anybody can change things?
Yeah, I think a lot of them do, yeah. Look at the . . . we had a hell of a lot bigger vote here than they have . . . in percentages.
Summarize the Fulbright problems again. The tape was off.
I think that, well, in the first place, the people just did not feel
comfortable with, didn't feel close to him, they didn't feel that he
cared about them. And a lot of people who thought he was all right voted
against him, I think, because like they felt he had lost touch with
Arkansas and all the things you hear. It's all right because he's had a
full-time staff here in this state for the last six years. For the first
time, I think, since he's been senator. And devoted more time. But you
see it's just a feeling they have about him. His manner and his age and
all that. When you put this next to this
They understand?
No, they do not understand. But they don't like it. And if somebody asked
you . . . if you were a politician . . . I'll give you an example of how
bad it is. To come out in favor of the seniority system, whatever that
is, would be almost as damaging as coming out for amnesty in this
district. In terms of how many votes it costs. People wouldn't get as
mad at you over it, but it
Is that going to hurt Wilbur Mills?
The intensity and vigor of it.
Different districts.
Probably will not because of the electorate there is a little different.
They perceive the issues there a little differently. It's mostly Little
Rock and the alternative is not as strong. But anyway, let's see. Those
two major things he had against him at first. And it was interesting to
me that they did all the publicity in the Fulbright canvas completely
backwards in order. Because at the end you had a very effective ad with
about ten different people in ten different walks of life in Arkansas.
Just folks off the street explaining why they were for Fulbright. After
all this stuff Fulbright's done standing up to Nixon on all these
issues. Well, it's just the reverse. They should have run all that for
three months ahead of time trying to break into this resistance that the
average Arkansan felt towards him. Because if they don't feel
comfortable with you, they won't vote for you. Now the
Do you think they're comfortable with you?
Well, I don't know. I carried the thing. I got 59% of the vote in the
runoff. And nobody believed I could do that. And as I say, I don't who
they were. I'll have to look. I haven't seen the box-by-box breakdown.
It could be that there were just no votes in the Republican boxes, the
upper-middle-class boxes and I got all my votes from labor. But I
Do you find it strange that they felt comfortable with you? A university professor? You went to Yale, right?
Rhodes Scholar and McGovern worker. Was this perceived? Do they know that or is this stuff they don't even know?
Yeah, I would say they knew about the . . . well, one of my opponents ran
a big, started running against me early in the primary. And he had these
ads which appeared once as a quarter-page ad and a couple weeks later as
a third of a page ad. It said candidate profile and it had Gene
Rainwater and Bill Clinton on it. He was the one that subsequently got
in the runoff. And it had his age and mine. His political experiences,
you know, his offices, legislative offices. None by my name. Present
legislative duties and his committees. And it had none by mine. It had
his military record and none by mine. You know, like that. And it had
his political and civic affairs and job experience. And he had deleted
what he wanted to. He'd taken it from my biographical sheet. Said that
I'd served eight months as a law professor and had worked for five
months at a time in two different periods at another college. And
implied that those were the only jobs I've ever had. And then at the end
it had political and civic and religious affiliations, something like
that. And the thing he'd left on mine . . . he'd left off all these
Arkansas campaigns I'd worked on and, you know, people I'd been involved
with. It said Texas, the chairman of McGovern campaign, or coordinator
or whatever he put down, Texas coordinator of the McGovern campaign. And
so he ran it in the newspaper and people read it, you know. But I . . .
just for example, I got a call from a seventy-year-old man the next day,
who's the secretary of the county
And he said, "Okay." I mean, if I could talk to enough people about it maybe they just wouldn't care. You can't be defensive about it. You don't apologize for it. He said, "Okay." I carried 80% of the guy's boxes in the runoff. Just beat anything I ever saw. So, you know, it's a thing that can be dealt with. Now if Hammerschmidt does it, it he starts to jump on me about it. In the first place, nobody cares about my age, I'm convinced. Or very few do. They wouldn't vote for me anyway, the people that would use my age as a reason for voting against me. And if he starts to use all these things that he's obviously going to use. I think he's going to try to play labor and age—
He's already done that with the press.
Yes. I've gotten a very positive response to that. See, Bumpers has
created a climate with his campaign in which you . . . if the incumbent
starts dumping on the challenger it hurts him. I mean, Fulbright played
his thing all wrong, in a way. Fulbright dumped on Bumpers. And people
now, it's ironic, because of my close personal friendship with Fulbright
that I would be riding in the same tide that Bumpers is. To some degree.
A lot of people see me in that position. And when John Paul says things
like that, after I've laid bare to the whole district on television
several times exactly how much money I've had from labor in that primary
and in the runoff. What percentage of the total it was. What percentage
I will ever take from them. And made them perfectly aware of the fact
that they'll always know how much money. It's just not going to be an
issue. I turned down $4,200 from
Of course, it was also out-of-state money.
Yeah. But a lot of money is. They're dumb about that. They ought to swap that around. Hammerschmidt just got $3,000 from the AMA because of the way they do it. You know, their bank account's in Arkansas. And labor's real dumb about that.
You mean it's $3,000 from AMPAC, their political action committee? What they do, they have a political action committee in each state. And it's funnelled through their local committee.
Yeah. The secretary of the medical society sent a letter to every doctor
in the district trying to convince them I was for socialized medicine,
whatever that is. And that I was anti-physician because of the hassle I
got into with some doctors in
When did you get started in politics?
Well, there's been a sort of residual political involvement in my family
since I was a kid. As I said, my family, direct family was never
involved in it. But my two uncles were always involved in local politics
and in state politics to some extent. From the time I was a boy, my
Uncle Roy was a state representative in the early '50s for
In school where there?
Georgetown University. And then in '68 I came home and worked in
Fulbright's reelection campaign. And then I went to Oxford for a couple
of years and didn't do too much in politics. Had a lot of friends who
were working in a lot of these, you know, legislative movements,
For Bumpers?
Yeah, but just a little bit in the runoff. You know. In and out of town. I mean, I didn't have a position or anything. But I got a call from a person in Bill Fulbright's office to get on the streets for Dale Bumpers. He can be elected governor and he can be. Before the runoff. Which was one reason there's so much of a bone of contention there. But that's—
When did you build this friendship with Faubus?
Just, when I got ready to run for Congress. When . . . then I went to
work for McGovern for a while, on and off for a couple years when I was
in law school. Helped him set up his campaign in Connecticut. I did some
things for him in the South. Then I traveled around—that's how I met
Belinda. I traveled to several southern states before the convention
trying to gather votes on that California question, which
He's been ill.
Yeah, he has been to the hospital. May be out now. But he's a good man. And I heard that they had some disruption here at the law school. I came down and they had some places. So I called the dean and told him if he wanted me to come teach for a year or two I would. But no more, but I would. They were sort of skeptical but they asked me to come for an interview and I did and they offered me a job. So I came here. And then in January . . . I'd been thinking—
Is Hot Springs part of this distinct?
Yeah.
So this has been your hometown ever since? The area as being your hometown?
Hot Springs is the southeasternmost town in the district I'm in. And of course this is in the northwest corner. I used to spend summers up here when I was a boy in the music camp.
What prompted you to run? You've only been here, what, four or five months? At the school.
Uh huh. In the first place, I was very much disillusioned with the record
of the incumbent, Hammerschmidt. I didn't, you know, I think he's got a
bad record and it's bad for the people in this area. And I thought
somebody ought to run. And a lot of people thought somebody ought to
run. All of my friends in the state legislature and active in Democratic
politics thought somebody ought to be running. But nobody was interested
in it because they said either it couldn't be done or they were not in a
personal position to be able to do it. Financial reasons or whatever
reasons. And it just ate on me and ate on me right into this. . . . I
started thinking about it pretty strongly in December. And I began to
realize that a lot of them, you know, just would not go. And in January
I received a call from John Dorr, who asked me at that time to take a
leave of absence and come be special assistant on the committee and help
him put his staff together. The Judiciary Committee. He's a friend and a
fine man and it was . . . I mean, I had to seriously consider, you know.
This provoked me to . . . I just sat down and I called everybody that I
would like to help get elected to Congress. I just asked them outright,
would they run. Would they go. And they all said no. And I really didn't
want to go back to Washington to do another stint and I did think that
John could find other lawyers that could do anything that I could do.
And that I might be able to make some sort of a contribution by staying
here and making this race, if I could raise any money to do it. So I
went home to Arkansas, to Hot Springs, to see
What was the conventional wisdom about that? Hammerschmidt was unbeatable, but in terms of the Democratic nomination what was the conventional wisdom?
Well, the opinion was divided. There were those who thought that it depended on who ran. But there were those who thought that no one strong would run and so I could win it. There were those who thought that even if I did win I'd be hacked up so bad. I was too young, too liberal. College professor. Never had a job. And that therefore it wouldn't be worth having if I did get it.
But you have to admit, though, that if you look at this district and how conservative it is and that it's the only one sending a Republican to Congress. And you take a person of your characteristics. In terms of conventional wisdom it wouldn't make sense. That you didn't have a damn chance.
That's right.
So, what happened?
When did you go see Faubus?
Oh, well, so then . . . we've been up through that. I don't have the dates here, chronology worked out in my mind. We haven't kept the record that we should have in this campaign. But anyway, I began to travel around and see people. And I suppose it must have been into February when I saw Faubus. Late January or February.
What prompted you to do that?
Well, he's my neighbor. And he—
But wouldn't he be the last guy to go see, represented the old time machine?
No, no. See, that's why I got elected. Because I don't do things, I don't think in terms of that.
But wouldn't the liberal mind, whatever it is in this district, think that way?
Well, the liberal mind might, but I don't have a liberal mind, I guess,
if that's the way they think. It's a matter of politics and how you get
votes. This is a highly . . . it's a curious district. You have to look
at it. Fort Smith you could almost characterize as ultraconservative, I
didn't believe I could carry Fort Smith under any circumstances at any
time
How did he think you could do it?
By directly or indirectly. First of all, by establishing myself as a candidate that should be in Congress, could be in Congress. And then by, directly or indirectly, demonstrating to the people that Hammerschmidt was far from an independent congressman and was one of the people that had major responsibility for the weakness and the effectiveness of the Congress. To put him in with the national tide. But it was interesting to me, you see, that he thought it could be done where all my liberal state legislature friends did not think it could be done. And he did, I suppose in part, because when he ran for governor in '54 nobody thought he could be elected either. Ran against a reasonably popular one-term incumbent. Everybody told him it's the wrong time. Well, lot of people told me this is the wrong time to run and don't run until '76 when we'll be putting a Democratic president in. I'm not sure we will be putting a Democratic president in in '76. Depends on who they put up and whether he can, you know . . . so, that was some encouragement. Tucker, [Jim Guy] Tucker encouraged me to run.
The attorney general.
Yeah. In part I guess 'cause he's like me. He'd do it if he wanted to. If
he thought it was the right thing to do. That's another thing that I
think that . . . really there were the practical problems.
Have you done any polling?
No.
Plan to do any?
Yeah.
Have you worked out a campaign strategy?
That's what I'm trying to do now. Trying to take a few days off. But in my mind I know what . . . what I need to do is target the district a little better in terms of how I spend my time. That's the main thing I've got to more.
Have you done an analysis of both primaries? In terms of voting behavior?
Yeah. I don't have a box-by-box analysis of the runoff yet. We're picking that up now.
How about of the '72 election? General election.
Irrelevant. Because that was a sham candidate. I mean he was so weak that you really can't tell anything about him.
When you talked to Faubus during that eight and a half hours, did he discuss at all the possibility of his running against Fulbright?
We talked about it. See, I think he would have liked to have done that because he doesn't particularly care for—I don't know whether it's personally or not but it's certainly politically—doesn't particularly care for either Fulbright or Bumpers. And he had always felt a great deal of bitterness toward Fulbright because of the help that Fulbright's people at least gave to Bumpers during the runoff. And as I said, some of them before the run off. And so he was laughing about it. He said "Well, damn it, Bill. Dale's getting ready to kill the monster," or something like that. I've forgotten. I don't think he said that so don't you say it. But you know, that was the implication of his remarks.
Did you get the impression that if Bumpers had not gotten in the race Faubus would have and might very well have won?
I got the impression that if Bumpers had not gotten in the race Faubus might have gotten in to it. Whether he would have won or not I just don't know.
Do you have any insights into whether or not that was a factor in Bumpers' decision to get in? The fact that Faubus would get in and might have won.
I understand that . . . from hearsay . . .
. . . from Fulbright's weakness.
I understand, just by hearsay and only that, and not very high up hearsay at that, that one of the things Bumpers said to his aides was that he was afraid that if he did not run against Fulbright some quote unquote "bad person" would. Would run or would be elected. But he thought Fulbright was that vulnerable that maybe—I don't know—maybe Faubus, maybe Hammerschmidt . . . Hammerschmidt was thinking of running but when Bumpers got into it he just didn't have, he couldn't muster the moxie to do it.
We asked Hammerschmidt about that, didn't we?
I don't recall. I think we may have.
What did he say?
This was back in January. I think he was indicating . . . I don't recall . . . I really don't remember whether he told us or . . .
We should have listened to that interview again, you know . . .
I understood he wanted to do it but . . . Hammerschmidt wanted to do it, but again just by hearsay. But that would have been a very adventurous thing for him to do.
Okay, we don't have the campaign strategy worked out yet. Let's assume
that you win it. And this is the day after election. What do you
First of all, the general mood, of course. The
Does it work here because this area is really not covered by any major, dominant news press?
It works here for that reason and because people like to be seen. It's
simply
Well, do you see it as a unique part of the state? As a unique kind of a district?
Oh yeah, in some ways it is. It's just a feeling you have, you know, at least in the hill counties, that there's a certain sort of personalization of politics that goes on. That people perceive politicians as individuals, as people they like to be for or who they wouldn't want to be.
So what you're saying is if you won it it would be on a strictly personality basis. That is, you contacted and impressed more people than Hammerschmidt had been able to do in the last eight years.
The turnout will be affected.
Yeah. It will be bigger than a lot of people think it would be, because
this race will engender some interest because a lot of
Is it possible in this district to identify and get the registered voters list?
Oh yeah. You have to do it county by county and it's a hard . . . it's a lot of effort. But it can be done. So we will do that one day. Those three factors are what's responsible for my winning the primary. I mean the extraordinary effort that was put in by just hundreds of people. I had more people than I ever had the right to expect.
So you're looking at a personality and organization oriented campaign. It's really not going to be dominated by issues.
No. Let me go on.
I'm sorry.
It will be because that's the way I am in the first place. I mean, I'll
show you this little brochure that I've printed up. Maybe you've seen, I
don't know. But it's fairly moderate, but it's more issue-oriented by
far than any other candidate who ran for office this year. Fulbright had
some issue stuff, quite a bit. But you know, nobody else has even
approached, you know, involving issues in things. I happen to believe
that the way that I can best sell myself, and the way that I can get the
best organization going, is by sticking to the issues and by speaking
about them in my speeches. And with more particularity than, say, the
governor does. The governor has to. Now Bumpers, see, he has a record.
People know him. They feel comfortable with him. They know what he can
do. So he can go a lot further without speaking about the issues than I
can. And one of the ways that I demonstrate
How about the vote on impeachment?
Eh. It's not really an issue
You think it will be?
It might. It might become one. I've given a number of speeches as a law
professor. Been invited, even just two days ago . . . I gave one. On
impeachment and the impeachment process. What my views are? What are
impeachable offenses and all that. But I have said many times that I
thought that under any sort of definition of any impeachment that if
Nixon is in violation of specific statutes that he was impeachable. Five
months ago I said that. It hasn't been hurting me very much.
Hammerschmidt had, what, 70% of the vote the last time?
77.
77. What percent of the district would you estimate as being Democratic in terms of past voting behavior in other races? Governor, senator. Take the statewide offices.
The Rockefeller race you could hardly take.
No, I mean attorney general, secretary of state. If you took those and averaged them out, what would the district look like?
Oh, it would probably vote two-thirds Democratic.
So it's a complete reversal then.
Yeah, but . . . if you asked people, a better indicator I think would be. I have a friend here named Jim Bailey who does some polling. Opinion Research Inc. Might be worth talking to him before you leave. He's just started polling about a year ago.
Where is he?
He's here, in town.
University?
Yeah.
I've heard that name someplace.
He did a deal on just asking people in various counties in the
district—I've got the results in my office—what they thought of
themselves, were they Democrats or Republicans or independent. And my
memory is that 55% said they were Democrats, 17% said they were
Republican,
I'll send you a little book I wrote on that that might help you, called
The Ticket-Splitter. 'Cause what you really have
to look at is voting behavior more than self perception, particularly in
a place like this where you get two-thirds going Democratic—
No, but you do know Hammerschmidt's votes since 1966, is my point. And you need a reason . . . people generally need a reason to vote against an incumbent.
Yeah, I think that's right. But, for example. Hammerschmidt won two to one in '68 and '70, too.
That's my point.
Now, in '68 he ran against a guy who showed, who should have been able to do better than that. Should have been able to get at least 45% of the vote. But the man came from a Republican county, the most northwestern county in the district, and was never able to get out and build an organization.
Building your own personal organization? You're not relying on, was there any Democratic organization?
Yes, well, in the early going you see I had to do that.
But I'm talking about the general election now.
In the general election I'm going to try to weld them as much
You going to use the Democratic
—satisfy their longings. Yes. Oh yeah, I'm going to run as a Democrat. But the message that I'm trying to get across is that what we need to do is to do something about the Congress. And that in part it's not just a problem of the Republicans. It's also a problem of the Democrats.
If you win, what do you think it's going to mean to the state Democratic Party? State politics in Arkansas?
Well, it will mean that they've got another good congressman in Congress.
It will also mean that they'll have another, you know, young,
progressive politician. What that means I don't know. They're virtually
lining up to run for McClellan's seat in '76 already.
But then you would see yourself as kind of a moderate, tradition
But I really also want to be part of the . . . yeah, I'm sure that I would. You can see I don't think in these terms, the way you're asking—
What sort of black population is there in this district?
Well, there may be four hundred, five hundred black people in Fayetteville. Hot Springs, my hometown, is about 10% black. Fort Smith is about the same. Hot Springs may be a little more. And they voted for me the first time pretty strongly. We were well organized there in Hot Springs. Somewhat less so in Fort Smith. But labor's doing a lot of work in the black community in Fort Smith.
How effective has labor been, statewide and in this district? Especially statewide.
They have pockets of effectiveness, you know. Where their strength is and depending on what the union is. Some of the unions are very well disciplined and very well organized. You just get the sense of it if you go in, for example, and shake hands at their plant gates. You know which ones are really working hard because they even know an unknown candidate like me. You know, when I'm a candidate. The steel workers, for example. Very good on this thing. They're just strong and well organized. But it varies from union to union.
Newspaper support?
Yeah, some. Anyway, the unions, if they work, in this district can be
very strong. I suppose they can affect, just through union members and
their families, friends, you know,
Out of what?
I think eighty to eighty-five thousand union members in Arkansas. So the
union movement's not very big and of course we have a right-to-work law
here. Part of the constitution. And in this district there is this sort
of individualistic mood because there are a lot of very conservative
business people, too, who thought of themselves as Republicans in Fort
Smith, Fayetteville, and some other place. There are some anti-union
people. But if they worked they could be very effective. They were
certainly effective in my race. The newspapers . . . I got the
endorsement of the Baxter Bulletin, the Mountain Home
Springdale News
Does the Gazette have any influence over this
district?
Negative.
Negative influence.
You know, I like the newspaper. I think it's a great newspaper. But the
tone there . . . there's no telling how many votes . . . I don't know,
maybe it didn't cost Fulbright any votes. But they have this arrogant,
snide, condescending tone in their editorials which makes it very
difficult for people to accept. I mean, they really did. People identify
Fulbright with the tone of the Gazette's editorials
against Bumpers. And I think that that's true.
The
Yeah. And these people out here . . . I mean, I hate to sound like a
redneck but, my god, these people out here are good. You know they work
for a living and don't think about politics very often and are just kind
of confused by all this Watergate business. And don'tArkansas Gazette boys are down there having cocktails every
afternoon at two or three up in the Little Rock Club overlooking the
Arkansas River
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
They've had entirely too little effect on the thinking of this state because of this posturing they do. That's one reason these people like me. I don't posture to them. They have this preconception of what a college professor is going to be. And I'm really . . . in some ways I'm very sort of . . .
How do you dress when you go out campaigning?
Suits.
White shirt?
Sometimes. Mostly colored shirts. Blue shirts.
Do you worry about the way they perceive your appearance?
Not much. I just try not to let my hair get too long. But I wear it about
this length all the time. I try to dress. Everywhere. Last night I gave
the first talk I ever gave in a coat and collar without a tie. I went
down and talked to the plumbers and pipe fitters. Council heads from all
over this district. I was about half sick. It was a real hot day. And I
did it in part, too . . . I didn't think about it too consciously, but
Hammerschmidt's got a lot of support among those people. They're real
conservative. And they think they love the fact he writes them letters
and he's helped some of their families get black lung benefits and they
don't know what his vote is on most issues, you know. So I went down
there and told them. I said, "Well, I'm the fellow John Paul
Hammerschmidt said you bought and paid for. I hope you like what you
got." And gave them a
You think the Republican Party, both at the state and perhaps the
national level, or at least the campaign committee, are going to put a
lot of money against you. Hammerschmidt is the one
Republican congressman.
They will if he gets in tight. Now he seems to be worried. Maybe he's got some polls which indicate he's in trouble. Certainly, I thought it was a tactical error for him to attack me on the day after I'd won the Democratic primary with 69% of the vote. Well, if I were running against me I'd say, "Well, he's a nice young man, but I've done a good job."
Well, he not only attacked you, he tried to explain the election. Which is not only absurd, but it's certainly presumptuous to say that he won because organized labor supported him. Isn't that what he said?
Yeah.
That's why I asked you if you'd done any polling.
Yeah. Well, I had done that, studied it box-by-box. So the conclusion that I draw from that is that people are not all that different in the way they vote in this district. They don't align up into blocs very well. Now, I think that I will get a high percentage of the labor vote. But even now, if you had the election today, a lot of people who belong to labor unions who voted for me in the primary might go for Hammerschmidt because of the letters he sends, you see.
Are you saying, insofar as issues are concerned, you find that people are less concerned with specific stands on specific issues than they are on the fact that you take a stand. Or not?
No, I didn't mean that. I didn't mean to downplay the issue
How do you explain Dale Bumpers? As a political phenomenon.
Well, in part, it's because he's been in the right place at the right
time. Circumstance always plays a part, just as it will in this. It's a
gamble. Am I in the right place at the right time or not? We don't know,
yet, I don't think. In part, it's because he's a damn good campaigner.
He works his butt off. At least he used to. And he's good at it. And
that makes a difference, in this state anyway. And
From observing him and from having had a close view of the Senate, how do you think he's going to function in a legislative role?
I don't know. I haven't thought about it very much, 'cause I think he'll spend a lot of his time running for national office once he gets . . .
He's going to have to take votes on issues.
Yeah, well I think he'll vote . . . I think he'll have a pretty progressive voting record. I think his voting record will be as progressive as Fulbright's.
What is he running for, nationally?
I don't know. I don't think he's quite made up his mind.
There aren't but two offices.
My feeling is that he could . . .
A or B.
My feeling is that he's got a good change at A if he handles it right. If he gets some people in there who know how to get those convention votes, know how to organize the thing. And if he can get together a sort of national posture on some of these issues, I think he can go.
Are you getting any national press attention?
Oh, a little bit. I think it's because I got a bunch of friends. But the
Washington Post wrote up my primary victory, run
off victory. On page seven, I think. And gave it about five
paragraphs.
And the wire service piece?
Washington Post on it.
Does that hurt you or help you back here?
Well, it was so insignificant by that time that they don't know about it. The national Democratic Party I think is very interested in it. I have friends in the party, national party people who have worked there and things like that. And I'm going up there this week to talk to them.
How much does a congressional campaign cost in Arkansas?
Well, I spent over $50,000 on the primary and the runoff. And I think the race against Hammerschmidt will probably cost 150. If we can raise it. If we can't, it won't cost that.
What kind of media did you use?
Well, it's impossible to cover this area with television, you know,
unless you get on five or six stations and spend a fortune. So
How about radio?
Radio. You can use it a lot and it can be effective. It's more effective for unknown candidates than it is for known candidates.
Are newspaper ads considered effective in this area?
They are considered effective, because it's such a rural area. Forty-two weeklies and eight dailies in the congressional district. There are a lot of people . . . course most of them have TVs and a lot of them have radios. But a lot of people just read their newspaper, their rural weekly newspapers from cover to cover and read every word.
Placing ads in the weeklies, do you get an endorsement?
No. But failure to give your attention to the weekly newspaper editors will get an endorsement for your opponent.
What about direct mail?
It can be very effective
Yeah.
They do mass mailing all over the country. They're an interesting group.
And you had Sheriff Martin Hawkins come up here and give a speech about
what it means to be a yellow dog. Always beat the Democrat.
END OF INTERVIEW