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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview A-0082, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
Lindy Boggs discusses her involvement in Louisiana politics dating back to the 1930s, when she was involved in the People's League during her years in law school. At the time, Boggs's husband, Hale Boggs, presided over the People's League, which was dedicated to maintaining integrity in government and ensuring that the government serve the people well. According to Boggs, the most significant changes to Louisiana politics occurred after World War II with the gradual elimination of the "race issue." With greater voter participation, the tradition of long-standing congressional leadership began to change, allowing for the introduction of fresh perspectives in Congress. Boggs's husband had served as the majority leader in Congress until his untimely demise in a 1972 plane crash, at which point Lindy Boggs took over his seat in the legislature, where she served for nearly twenty years. Boggs offers comments on the Louisiana congressional delegation as a "single bloc," and she discusses what she saw as the prevailing power of the South in Congress. Also considered is the impact of the women's movement on congressional activities and the role of what Boggs calls "southern graciousness" in congressional interactions.
Louisiana Congresswoman Lindy Boggs discusses changes in Louisiana politics dating back to the 1930s, when she participated in the People's League, and through the 1950s and 1960s, which saw the gradual elimination of the "race issue" in politics. Boggs offers her thoughts on the nature of the Louisiana congressional delegation, the role of the South in Congress, and the impact of the women's movement on Congress during the 1970s.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
There is one story that I heard in New Orleans, except no one else seemed to know about it, so I wanted to ask you about it—whether it is true and if it is, if you would elaborate and tell the whole story. The story I heard was that you and your husband, your husband in particular, and you back in graduate school and in law school were more or less the leaders of a young group in the late thirties that really went to Washington and got federal action to come down and prosecute . . . to prosecutions that eventually came, and that out of that group developed a more or less, a cadre of people who went on in Louisiana politics.
Well, Hale was the leader. It was called People's Week, and there were a
great group of young people in an organization
Was he in law school at that time?
Yes. I think by the time that they were formally organized with a name
and officers he may have been out of law school. He got out of law
school in '37 and they didn't have any formal outward organization until
perhaps '38 or '39. Several state senators, Lawrence Eustis was a member
of the group, Chuck Morrison, who became mayor and then ambassador to
the Organization of American States, was a member, as was his brother
Jake. Raymond Monroe, who was not a political officeholder but who, from
that time on, was very active in political organizations and all the
ensuing races for governor. Goodness, I should remember them all. They
were just an enormously effective group of young people who felt that
they couldn't identify especially with any particular faction in order
to do a job that they felt was necessary, and that was to establish a
feeling that the government could have integrity and could serve the
people well without having any monetary difficulties. They did very
effective work legally and they did, of course, talk with various
governmental agencies that should have been involved, Justice and Post
Office. They staged large rallies conducted by the People's League on
the White House steps. There was a grand jury investigation going on and
the grand jurors felt that the district attorney was not
The first major effort was the gubernatorial election of 1940. I suppose
the campaign started in the fall of 1939. They were able to elect the
governor of their choice, Sam Jones, and Sam has become a very
conservative person in the way that he is. He was the candidate of the
People's League and all of us went into very active ward-precinct
organizational politics. We had ward leaders and precinct captains and
poll watchers. We worked very hard on voter registration drives. At that
time you had to register every year and by the time you had cleansed the
rolls it was time to start all over. I think it gave all of us a sense
of responsibility at the precinct level, which is extremely helpful all
through your political life. If you go back to the essentials it is
there. The issues are explained and the votes registered and voters
translated into the polls and counted. So, it was a very valuable
lesson. Then, of course, there was no longer a need for a separate
organization. They had done their work in exposing scandal and trying to
reestablish integrity in government and to attract good people into
running parties, making themselves available as candidates and
officials. Then they went on. The various members of
Was there any coming back together after World War II of the same people?
No, but they more or less remained together, I hate to use the word ideologically, but I guess for want of a better word, they seemed to always react, more or less, the same way to political situations and to political candidates' platforms.
As you think back over the period to 1948, both in terms of Louisiana and the Congress, what are the major changes that you have seen occur in terms not only the state politics, but also the politics of the southern delegation?
As you have said, our state politics are different. They are very interesting. I think that generally that state politics from that time on there has been a great deal of citizen participation. Some of the so-called reforms of that era are probably registration, voting machines in larger cities. Larger areas, I think, led to more active participation by a larger number of people from different economic, racial, ethnic backgrounds. That probably could be so of every southern state.
Did the issues change during that time?
Of course, the issues, the national issues always change. We were hampered for many years from doing many other things because we had to strengthen integration. It was always hanging over our heads, I mean the South's head. The South has always produced, I think, remarkable congressional leaders mostly because people of ability offer themselves for election and their constituencies from the years gone by have kept them in office long enough for them to gain an expertise and power and effectiveness in Congress.
In other words, do you see that changing?
I think that no seats are any longer safe. There was a time when various seats were considered safe, if it were a one-party state. Louisiana was and several of the southern states were and as you well know, that has changed considerably in the last seven years.
But isn't the tradition of sending the same person to Congress, is that changing too? It used to be, at least we have heard in some southern states that once you got the nomination, the election was assured.
I don't really think that is true anymore. I think that rapid
communication, particularly television communication, has changed the
voting patterns, well, the
How did the removal of the race issue affect what your husband did and what you are doing now?
I don't think it is completely removed. But of course it is being removed
more and more. I also think that you are going to find, as we have in
the last seven years,
Neal Peirce is coming out with a new book on The Deep South
States that we have seen the proofs of, and it includes an
interview with Hale Boggs in which he referred to his last victory after
his votes on civil rights measures and it sort of gave him a new sense
of freedom to act, to vote for his convictions even though he felt in
the past that they were dangerous. The fact that he was able to survive
that election.
I think he may have said that in the context of what I have said,
"Survive to be an example to others that
How do you and Congressman Treen get along?
Very well. He is an extremely kind and polite and gracious and whenever
there has been any kind of testimonial for me or anything in my honor,
he has always participated very actively. We've worked together on two
or three projects for the
Does the Louisiana delegation meet as a delegation?
We meet occasionally. We meet often through
Is it structured?
It's a loosely structured thing. We cooperate very well together, and we have felt this year that it has more impact if we write a joint delegation letter, for instance, on what we consider a serious problem. This has worked very well. A joint letter always received immediate attention from the highest official of whatever department to whom it is addressed, and we have had action, sometimes solutions to problems.
Is this House and Senate meeting?
Yes.
Can you give us one example of that?
For instance, we have joint meetings on NASA projects. We do have a
sixteen million dollar contract at
Can we talk a little bit about the southern delegation if there is such a thing, but a group of congressmen and senators from the eleven southern states, and their influence in Congress in the last twenty-five years. Some give us the hypothesis that it is on the increase, some say that the power is waning, some say that it has leveled off. Do you have any thoughts on that?
I think the power has been there, and certainly the southern states had a
direct influence on the actions of Congress. The seniority system, of
course, placed many southerners. We said earlier that the people did
continue to elect a person who was well-qualified and who had the desire
to remain in office and naturally they became ranking members or
chairmen of the committees and directed decisions of the Congress.
Everybody on those committees
Is that reflected in their philosophy and influence?
Well, the House this year, as you well know, has operated under new
caucus rules, where there is a great deal more openness of all the
committee hearings, and meetings are open. Even mock-up sessions in many
committee meetings are open sessions. The Rules Committee has certainly
become much more liberal in granting rules than the previous one was.
The subcommittee chairmen have been opened to the chairmanships and
opened up to younger members because now you can hold only one
subcommittee chairmanship at a time. I think there were twenty-three
subcommittees that were opened up. There is a provision in the caucus
rules where members of a committee can object to actions of the
chairman, and by a vote in the caucus, the chairman can be forced to a
reelection, to an election by the caucus. So I think you find a great
many changing
Do you belong to any of the Democratic organizations, like the Study Group?
I subscribe to the Study Group's analyses, excellent. They supported me during the campaign, so did everybody else.
But isn't the Democratic Research Organization in effect sort of an extension of the old southern caucus?
Yeah. The United Democratic . . .
U. D. C., I remember that.
Sounds like—
That's how I remember it. United Democrats of Congress.
What I am trying to get at—
Very, very good attender at the Democratic caucus. Is it still a southern bloc?
No, southern delegation if you want to call it that, act as a bloc on issues other than say, prohibition of busing, racial matters, economic issues?
If they do, I am not aware of it. I am sure they must, but since I am not a member, I have no way of knowing whether they have meetings to discuss, or what they are going to do in caucus or on the floor.
Is there any such thing as a women's movement in politics in Louisiana? At least that is distinctive from any traditional role that women played in politics. There has always been some role in politics in the South anyway.
Always, and in Louisiana the women were really the ones with the young
people in the aftermath of the
I have an image of two different, the merging of two different "reform" groups from Louisiana. One has been sort of a reform group more concerned with corruption and clean government, basically business-oriented conservatives. Another reform group has been the progressives on social issues, but has been concerned with "clean government." The two sometimes get together, but they are also two distinct groups.
That is a very, very accurate analysis and there is a . . .
An anti-Long group.
The conservative business group really grew up as being an anti-Long group, and that was one of the difficulties of the young people at the time that Hale came along. When I said they really couldn't identify in their desire to—
. . . it was because they didn't want to be identified as Long or anti-Long because you immediately have people firing against you on both sides. This was something they felt superseded those difficulties, but later on they did, the members of People's League, did become involved into the factions of their choice.
Is there any kind of women's caucus?
No. We meet informally, and there are some issues on which we naturally
feel tremendously proud of, like the Child Abuse Law this year. I do
feel that Pat Schroeder and Liz Holtzman were more or less instrumental
in having treatment for the abuses incorporated into the law. A
particular insight on that came from their background of community work
and that was brought to the bill, and the other women members actually
supported them very strongly on it. You are elected as the
representative of your district, you are not elected as a woman. All of
us have sophisticated districts with various problems and it is very
natural that we would all be sponsoring the Truth In Lending Amendment
against discrimination in credit because of sex and marital status. I
placed an amendment with the Banking and Currency Committee. It was a
similar one about small business loans to individual businesses. But we
have no caucus as such. But we do meet occasionally. We did give a baby
shower for Yvonne.
Is there anything we haven't covered . . .
Maybe that says something about politics, a member from Louisiana is saying this about the first black woman who has ever been elected.
I was going to ask you about that. If you think about that, what does it mean? Jack went to the presidential prayer breakfast this morning . . .
So did I.
If someone had told you twenty years ago that Senator Stennis would be introducing a black congressman from Georgia at the congressional-presidential prayer breakfast in 1974, what would you have thought?
Well, because you would put analogies into it, it would probably alter my answer. I think Senator Stennis would have done it with the same grace twenty years ago as he did today. And, Andy Young is an exceptional young man. I better praise him because he was born and reared in New Orleans and his mother was a wonderful civic leader. I serve on the Banking and Currency Committee with him, and he has such a solid head as well as a . . .
I got to know him when I was covering the Charleston Hospital strike. He is just fantastic.
It is such an interesting experience. We went to the International
Monetary Fund meeting in Nairobi, and he said that when he was a
youngster and went to the ministry, he wanted to be a missionary in
Africa. First we stopped in Dakar Synagogue, in French West Africa,
which is so similar
I have great admiration for congressional wives. They are extremely helpful to the causes of the government.
Is there anything that we haven't covered that you particularly wanted to comment on?
At the expense of sounding as though I am bragging, I do think that southerners bring a certain graciousness and understanding in the individual relationships that sometimes alter the course of the legislation or affect it that is unique among the other sections of the country.
Do you think that situation this morning was an example of that?
I do.
Would you consider that to be an unchanging aspect of southern politics that in the past has been overlooked because of negative factors?
I really do. I think the relationships between the races is really more genuine in its friendliness in the South.
What kind of rapport exists, relationships are there between southern members of the Congress, white southern members of Congress and black members of Congress who are not from the South?
I'd really think that you'd have to talk about it on an individual
because I think, for instance, Charlie Diggs has a lot of southern
friends, his portrait was being hung in the committee room yesterday or
the day before, when the chairman's portrait was installed. I was in
George Mahon's office and he said, "Sometimes I forget the hanging of
portraits, but I really want to go to Charlie Diggs, because I want him
to know that I like him." Incidentally, this is all
END OF INTERVIEW