Subpoena of Aubrey West and Virginia Foster Durr
Durr discusses the subpoenas of his wife, Virginia Foster Durr, and their friend, Aubrey West, for their work with the Southern Conference for Human Welfare. Durr primarily focuses on how Virginia negotiated with Lyndon Baines Johnson (then, a Senator) and Congressman George Bender in ensuring the best possible outcome. In addition, Durr describes their interactions with James Eastland, who was on the investigation committee, and Paul Crouch, who was the "informer."
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Clifford Durr, December 29, 1974. Interview B-0017. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
Well, one day, Aubrey came around, one
Saturday morning and he had a subpoena from the internal security
sub-committee of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Eisenhower was still
president and he was to appear in New Orleans to tell all he knew about
subversive activities of the Southern Conference for Human Welfare.
Well, Virginia had been very active in that when it first started. Part
of it sloughed off for tax purposes and became the Southern Conference
Educational Fund and Aubrey became president of it. It was about the
only organization in the South that was for integration. So, Aubrey had
this subpoena for New Orleans and almost instinctively I got to work on
the thing and we began to discuss strategy and how to handle h himself
and Virginia was taking calls, acting as my secretary
then. It's a bad idea to have a man's
wife working for him, but I needed a secretary and trieda lot of others
but she was the only one that could spell, so I was stuck with her.
[Laughter]
Well, this was a rather amusing story. I had been trying to
catch up and had been under terrific strain and I was under treatment
for a heart condition at the time, not a heart attack but a coronary
insufficiency, they called it, angina. So, when we left home Saturday
afternoon, Virginia said, "Cliff, I know how you feel about all
this and Aubrey, but you just can't go down there with your
heart condition." I said, "Nobody else in Montgomery
will go with him and I know the ropes, so let's stick by
Aubrey." Well, by the time I got home, she had gotten in touch
with the doctor and he had me on the phone and said, "You just
can't go down there." So, I argued with him some,
but on Monday morning, the problem was solved because when we went to
work that morning, the marshal was waiting with a subpoena for Virginia.
So, I called the doctor and said, "Listen hear doctor, you may
as well be sensible about this. You know that it is going to be a strain
on me sitting up here in Montgomery with Virginia down there going
through all that business and I want to go down with her."
Well, he could see that and there were a number of other people
subpoenaed, Myles Horton and Jim Dombrowski and
quite a number of others. Virginia got busy on the phone meanwhile and
started playing politics. First she called Lyndon Johnson. The
sub-committee consisted of McClellan of Arkansas, who had some prestige,
then Jenner, the Republican, who was chairman and Jim Eastland. That was
to be the committee. Well, Virginia decided that we could handle Jim
Eastland all right, but McClellan and Jenner might be a little tough, so
she gets busy on the phone and called Lyndon. He was on the floor and
finally Virginia called their home and gets Byrd and she said,
"Well, Lyndon has gone to bed." Virginia says,
"Get him up," and she proceeds to tell Byrd what has
happened, that we have all been subpoened down there, including Aubrey.
Well, Byrd in her sweet way said, "I know you and Aubrey are as
fine Americans as there ever were and I'll just get Lyndon
up." She got him up and Lyndon got on the phone,
"Honey, what you calling me about?"
Virginia said, "I'm calling you because
I'm as sore as hell." She told him about her and
Aubrey being subpoened down there. Well, he said, "I
didn't know a thing about it." "Do you mean
that you are the majority leader there and you don't know
what is going on in the United States Senate." "Well,
what in the hell should I do?" She said,
"You just see to it that no other
Democrat comes down with Eastland." "Well,
I'll see what I can do." Then, there was a guy from
Ohio, George Bender. He was a colorful character, pretty much of a and
he was later Senator. I think that at thetime, he had been elected
Congressman at large. They had had some reapportionment. But George had
been for this abolition of the poll tax because of the Negro votes in a
few cities of Ohio and it was good politics for him to be for it. So,
one Sunday afternoon, Virginia gets on the phone and locates him at
Chagrin Falls, Ohio. George was a little to the right of Bob Taft
politically, but the poll tax was a different issue for him. So, George
says, "Well, Virginia, you must love me as much as ever,
calling me up long distance to talk to me." Virginia said,
"Well, George, I do love you just as much as I ever did, but I
didn't call you up to tell you how much I loved
you." She proceeded to tell him about this hearing.
"Well," he said, "you've got
nothing to worry about. You haven't done anything wrong. Just
answer the questions and you'll be all right. You
haven't done anything wrong." Virginia said,
"That's just it. You never do know what they might
ask you and if they ask about this poll tax fight, you know that we used
your office and we used your memeograph machine
and you sent out a lot of the stuff over your name. If they ask me this
question, I've got to answer them." "Oh,
isn't there some constitutional amendment that you can
invoke?"
[Laughter]
Virginia said, "I'm not going to invoke the
Fifth Amendment and have people think that I have something to
hide." "Well, what can I do for you,
honey?" She said, "You see to it that no
Republican comes down with Jim Eastland." The long and short of
it was that we got down there and Jim Eastland was by himself.
[Laughter]
Well, that's a long story. The main witness was a guy
named Paul Crouch and he was an informer and obviously a psychopath and
he admitted that he didn't know Aubrey or Virginia. You see,
I wasn't subpoenaed, I was just down there as the laywer for
them. He had met Aubrey once after he had met a speech and had been
introduced to him as "Comrad Williams."
[Laughter]
Then Virginia, well, she was in with the White House and kin to
Justice Black, and he was the mastermind who really started the Southern
Conference for Human Welfare …well, the first day, I told
them that they were going to be held in contempt and wind up in jail and
they said that they were not going to invoke the Fifth Amendment, but
they said that they would answer any questions about themselves, but
they weren't going to give them names.
That's what they wanted, to get names of other people. I told
them that the Fifth Amendment was to protectyou and if you
don't answer the other questions, you can be held in contempt
and go to jail. The first day, the two characters were on who none of us
knew before. One of them was a contractor who had been very successful
and had a Polish name. I think that his parents had come to this country
when he was eighteen months old and the other was born in Brooklyn
andwas a laywer. He had practiced law in New York for awhile and then he
had come to Miami. Well, they went after them. Whether they had ever
been Communists, I don't know, it turned out that what
happened, there had been some Jewish synagogues bombed down in Miami and
Jim Dombrowski, who was secretary of the Southern Conference, had gone
down to see if he could help organize some protest and they had been in
this local group. He had pretty well forgotten about that. Well, anyway,
Crouch began to testify. One of them was all prepared, he was going to
meet the Russian navy when it launched its landing craft on Miami Beach
and all this. Well, you couldn't believe the treatment that
these guys got. They were just reated….they protested and
finally the marshals were all ordered to drag them out of the room. I
woke up in the middle of the night to the banging away of a typewriter
and there was Virginia. I said, "What in the hell are
you doing?" She said,
"I'm getting up a statement." I said,
"Everybody agrees what you are going to do, you're
going to end up in jail because you are going to be held in
contempt." She said, "From what I have seen today,
I'm not going to have anything to do with this outfit at
all." Well, she started off in this statement by saying that
she had the highest respect for the investigative role of Congress and
from what she had seen, this was no legitimate exercise of Congressional
powers and this was nothing but a kangaroo court and she refused to be
any part of it. She ended by saying, "I stand in utter and
complete contempt of this committee."
[Laughter]
When they got her on the stand the next day, she just refused to
answer any questions. She admitted that she was my wife and
wasn't a Communist and never had been, but the rest of the
time, she just stood moot. Well, there is another aspect of the story,
John Cone from Montgomery volunteered to go down there as a lawyer, he
is George Wallace's speech writer. That's another
story. I'll digress and come back to that.
[Laughter]
She just refused to answer any questions at all. She
wouldn't reply. It just drove them frantic.