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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview H-0020, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
At age eighteen, Ethel Marshall Faucette began her official employment at the Glencoe Mill Town cotton mill making outing shirts. She remained for nearly fifty years at the same mill until its closing in 1954. As a young child, Faucette brought lunch to fellow village mill hands. While they ate lunch, she worked on the machines, learning various skills that would train her for future mill work. Her early practical education of mill tasks allowed Faucette to complete multiple jobs during her longtime employment at Glencoe Mill. Her father served as the mill's superintendent, and due in part to his managerial role in the mill, he instilled a strong work ethic in his eight children, and dismissed work-related gossip.
The social benefits and economic limitations of mill life from the late 1910s to mid 1950s are exposed in Faucette's account. She describes the twelve-hour shifts and physical layout of the mill. Faucette explains how the mill owner's acceptance of the new eight-hour workday labor law prevented the growth of organized union activity. Instead of painting a picture of discontent, she downplays the perils of working in a mill. Faucette remembers that workers rarely complained about loud noises or potential health hazards. In fact, they largely accommodated changing work tasks and found avenues for relaxation at the mill. Because Glencoe Mill relied on water to power the machine, the unpredictability of nature resulted in free time for mill workers. Not until the advent of electrical power did workers have to relinquish leisure time during the arid summer season. Faucette also portrays the cohesive nature of a mill village among blacks and whites. Although blacks were omitted from employment as mill hands, they forged a social bond as domestic workers. Faucette's family demonstrated how mill hands took care of their own when they adopted an orphaned child of a fellow mill worker. The social and religious socialization of mill workers is exemplified throughout the interview. Faucette hints, however, that the emergence of a heightened consumer culture and increased job mobility contributed to the loss of the mill village's social cohesion.
Ethel Marshall Faucette describes the working environment and social life of the Glencoe mill town in Burlington, North Carolina. Faucette worked at Glencoe Mill from 1915 to 1954 and she explains the changes to workers' lives over her decades of employment.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
Your whole name.
Ethel Marshall Faucette. I was Marshall before I married.
When were you born.
I was born December the twentieth, 1897.
What was your mother and father's name.
My mother was Mary Elizabeth Marshall and my daddy, he just had initials, M. M. Marshall.
You don't know what they stood for.
Well, no I never did, because he was a twin and they named his sister
Alice and Granny wanted him named David and Grandpap wouldn't have it,
so they just called him their little man. And that's as much as he ever
had. And he just signed his name M. M. Marshall, that's the way he
signed. It went that-a-way as long as he lived.
Do you know about your grandparents?
No, I don't. I never see'd but one of my grandparents, and that was
Daddy's mother and she was Nancy Marshall. So I never did see my
grandpap, Eli Marshall. I knew his name of course
What did they do, the grandparents?
Grandparents? Well now, I don't know that. Granny Marshall never did anything when I know'd her—she was too old.
Did she ever talk about. . . .
No, she never did talk about what they did or none at all about it. So, I
don't know but my daddy was superintendent of
Well, how did your father and mother come here?
Now I don't know that. I don't know—the first—Daddy come from Randolph County. He was reared over there somewhere about Mount Zion Church—Mount Zion Baptist Church. His people all lived over there. And mother, the first I ever heard her say anything about coming to a cotton mill was to Carolina, down below here. She never did say much about that, she quilled and spinned. And that's all I know about her.
Do you know about when they were born?
Well, momma was born August the ninth but, I can't remember the year. But
I'll tell you, she was sixty nine when she died, and she's been dead
forty two years.
O.K. What about your father, do you know about him.
And daddy was seventy two when he died and he's been dead, thirty nine years.
Do you know how they met.
Nope, I don't know a thing about that. Never heard nobody say nothing about that, whenever I was growing up.
Yes'm. Well one of 'em was working here and one was working at the Carolina.
No, they both worked here. Whenever they married, why they worked here
and when I was real small, they moved from here
Who called it that?
The people up there.
From then, he bought a acre of ground up there back of the Baptist Church—well, there wasn't no church up there then. And, built the house in nineteen two—that's when we came back from Greensboro, back here. We lived in that house up there until they got the house built up there on that acre of ground that he had bought. `Course there was a little log house up there, but he had a big house.
And after he and mother died, I had two sisters and two brothers that
lived up there at the old home place. And the old home place burned
down. We never did learn how it caught `cause the chimney had burned
down whenever the firemens got here. So we never did learn how it burned
down, but we know'd it burned.
Well, when your father wanted to come back here and your mother didn't, why didn't she want to come back here?
Well, she just didn't like back here, she liked it in Burlington. Momma
was a great talker, she loved to talk.
Now mother and daddy, daddy said he had eight children of his own—and he took one little child and raised it—he said nine wouldn't be any more than eight.
You mean, your mother and father had eight children.
Yeah.
Where were you in all these eight.
Well, I was there. I was about the, let's see, there was three younger than I so. . . .
Do you know what their names were and how much older each one is than the other one.
Right around two year old.
Every one of 'em.
Right around two and some three, so, there was a crowd
That's the one that was over here and burned down.
Yeah. That's the one that was up there and burned down.
Well now, how was it that your father got started working in the mills, do you know?
I don't know.
But he became the superintendent here, you say.
Yeah, he was the superintendent of this mill forty years, when he died.
He worked his way up through the different jobs?
Yeah. He never went to school a day in his life.
What would be some of the different jobs that he would have had. What would they have been called, or how long would he have stayed at each one, do you know?
I couldn't tell you that. The first time I remember, he was sitting in the Glencoe Mill, so I don't remember nothing about what he did before that.
Now what about your mother, do you know how she began to work?
My mother never worked after she was married.
I see. So when you all came back here she didn't work here.
No, she didn't work here, nor she didn't work in Elmira and she didn't work at Greensboro. She never worked after she was married.
What would she do most every day.
Well, she done housework like any housewife.
What would some of the things be that she would have done?
Well, she cleaned the house, and washed and ironed, and different things. 'Course after mother had so many children, why daddy hired a white woman, first to stay with us.
Would it have been someone who lived around the area.
Yeah.
How old would the woman have been.
I couldn't tell you how old she was for I was little.
Would she seem like a young woman or an older woman.
No, she was a older like woman. He hired her as long as she was able, and after she just couldn't do much, we kept her. And then he hired a colored woman.
Did the woman, the first woman that he hired, did she live in the house with the family.
Yeah, she stayed with the family. We all called her Aunt Becky, every one of us.
She didn't have a family?
No, she didn't have no family—she had some people in Caswell County, but she didn't stay with them. She just stayed at, you know, in different ones, that needed her until she come to stay with us. And when she come to stay with us, she stayed with us.
About how long do you reckon that was, how many years?
Oh lord, I couldn't tell you that. It was a long, long time.
And what about the black woman, where did she live?
Oh, she lived back up in there—you know where the Green Acres is?
How would she come and go.
Well she didn't go, she stayed there too all the time.
She stayed at the house.
Yes, she stayed there with us.
She slept in the house.
Yes. she had a room upstairs. And when daddy finished building we had ten rooms to that house.
That's a big house.
Yes it is. Two big hallways. We had plenty of room because when we got big enough to play and run through the house, he built him a room at the back—said he couldn't sleep of the night for us cutting up and playing. We didn't go to bed early like he did.
What time would he go to bed.
He'd go to bed about eight thirty—between eight thirty and nine o'clock.
Well, we didn't. So he built him a room at the back where he could go to
bed and shut it off and couldn't hear what we was doing.
What time did he get up?
Well, I think it was around five o'clock.
Would your mother get up and fix breakfast for him.
Yeah.
Would she get up before he would.
No, he always got up and built the fires. You know you cooked on a wood stove then. He'd get up and he'd build them fires and burned wood in the fireplace. We had a big old fireplace, I reckon it was as wide as that. Burned of course, if you put a stick of wood in.
And he would do that every morning.
Yeah, he'd get up and build it.
Would you leave any coals in the. . . .
Yeah, they'd always leave the coals in the fireplace and cover 'em up with ashes, and there'd be a fire there the next morning.
And then, what would be the next thing that would happen after he started the fire.
Well, she'd get up and fix his breakfast, and he'd go to work.
What kind of things would you have for breakfast.
Well, we had eggs and ham—we raised our own meat. We raised anywhere from four to five hogs. Had two cows, a horse.
Where would you keep those animals.
Keep them in the barn and in the sty there to the barn, to the pigs. We kept pigs there all the time.
Would it be just your family keeping animals in one spot.
Yes.
Did other people who lived in the village have . . .
Yeah, they had—now they all say hogs and chickens and cows and things is
diseased, has diseases, and people have 'em. But
Everybody had their own hogs.
Hogs, yes. And, when it got cold enough to kill hogs, maybe they'd kill hogs a month around here. Killed maybe six and eight a day, wasn't it Joe.
Oh yeah.
And what about cows.
And cows.
Did everybody have a cow?
About everybody.
Well, where would they keep them. They couldn't keep 'em on each little lot, could they?
They kept 'em in the barn, at the back of the house.
Everybody had a barn too?
Everybody had a barn that had a cow.
Is that right. You don't see any of these barns here anymore.
No, no. They made 'em tear 'em down and move 'em. So there ain't none of 'em around here now. But there used to be just plenty of 'em, up and down that branch, and back out here up down Edge Road they called it.
Was there any place they could put them out to pasture at all?
Yeah, they'd tie 'em out all around here. And all around the home, everywhere.
Did you have chickens?
Yeah, had chickens. You raised your own meat, you raised your own chickens, and you had eggs, and had milk and a horse to plow the garden, and to carry you to town.
And now, going back to fixing breakfast—you'd have eggs, and how would you fix the eggs.
Just fry 'em, fry 'em or boil 'em. Fix 'em different ways. We had ham all the time, we was hardly ever out of ham.
Would you have any bread, or anything?
Yeah, we had bread—plenty of bread. We didn't have no light bread, only
what you called home made light bread. My mammy could make as good a
light bread as you ever eaten.
Would you have any for breakfast ever?
Yeah.
What would you have for breakfast?
Biscuit.
And what kind of flour would you use?
Well, we generally used straight grade flour. And an old man called—Johnson his name was—he come around once a month and you bought a barrel of flour. You didn't buy just a little bit, you bought a barrel of flour.
And Mr. Johnson would sell the flour.
Yeah.
And was he a miller?
Yeah, he was a miller. And he'd bring flour around every month. You'd buy that flour, and it'd last you a month.
And your mother would make light bread out of this flour.
Yeah. Take yeast and make light bread. I used to could make it but I
ain't made no bread in so long 'till I don't no whether I could make a
biscuit or not.
Would you have anything like molasses or syrup or honey or anything.
Yeah, we had honey, we had syrup, we had molasses and had things just like they have now. Only didn't have light bread and no bakeries nor nothing like that. We had a great big ice box that held a block of ice and that's where you kept anything that you didn't want to spoil. But daddy always cured his meat—they'd stay in salt so many weeks—and then take it out, wash that salt off and put pepper on it and put it in the sack, hang it up. After it stayed in that salt for so long, it was cured. We never lost no meat.
What time of the year would you all kill your hogs?
In November.
Would everybody pretty much do it at the same time?
Well, they would just as fast as they could get to it.
Did you divide up the meat among several different families.
Well now, there'd be so many families help one another you know. When you'd kill hogs they'd come and help, with the meat and stuff.
That would take a whole day?
A whole day, and sometime two days. Just according to how many you had killed at once.
And how would you know when the time was right to kill it?
Well, you'd look at the almanac and find out. And they had a certain time to kill hogs and they killed then.
Which almanac do you reckon that was.
S. Bloom's.
Bloom's Almanac.
Old Red Back Almanac. That's been the almanac ever since I can remember
anything.
Do you all still get that one or use it at all?
Yeah, we still get it. You buy it in town at any of the hardware stores.
And it used to be ten cents, and now they're seventy five cents.
So you all didn't have to buy very much food then, at all, except the flour. And what else did you buy besides flour?
Sugar and coffee, and things like that.
How would that stuff come?
Well, we'd get it down here at the store.
At this store down the road.
Yes.
Would you buy it by the—what kind of packages would it come in?
Well you could get five pounds, you could get ten pounds or you could get fifty pounds.
Of sugar?
Sugar. You could get as much coffee as you want. And them that had to buy meat got the meat—fatback meat was five cents a pound.
When was this?
Oh, that was back when I was little.
Well now, would just your mother and father eat breakfast since you all stayed up so late, or would you all get up.
We'd get up in time to go to school, in winter time. But, didn't go to school but four months.
Which school did you go to?
Well, now we had school up yonder—you know where the flea market's at. Well that was the school house. And they just kept building better schools and bigger schools until they got this building. Then I don't know how come they decided to move the school up and out in the Haw—they moved 'em up there. And carry the children to school by bus. I never have liked that.
How did you go to school?
I walked to school.
Did you go by yourself or with some other children?
No, I had—let's see—I had five sisters and a brother in school when I was in school.
And all of you would go along together.
We all went together.
Did you take along any lunch with you?
Yes, if we wanted to. If we didn't we had a hour for lunch and we'd come home. `Cause we lived up yonder—the school house was right up the road there, so we didn't have to.
But you all didn't usually take lunch with you.
No, mother always had it done when we got back at dinner time—we had a hour and we could go and come.
What time of day would that have been?
About twelve, twelve thirty.
What would she fix for those meals.
Well, she'd fix beans and things like that. Potatoes.
Did you have more than one kind of beans, do you remember?
Yeah, sometimes we'd have two.
What were the names of some of those beans?
Pintos and snap beans, and corn. See daddy had fifty acres of land back up in the country and he had a colored man that raised a garden up there. He didn't farm, he just raised a garden. Well he raised beans and corn.
Do you remember the name of the corn?
Truckers Favorite. We have it now.
Same kind.
Yes.
And what else would he raise.
He raised watermelon, canteloupes.
Do you remember the names of any of those? Particular kind of watermelons?
No. We had the George Rattlesnakes.
I've seen that one—it's got stripes.
Yeah, and they're dark green and a white looking melon but I can't think
of the name of that. But I know we had two or three
What were some other things, would he raise tomatoes?
He'd raise tomatoes, and onions, and okra, and—we raised all kind of vegetables—and he canned 'em. We had to gather 'em, wash 'em, get 'em everything ready and packed in the can and he'd come home in the afternoon, he sealed 'em.
Would they be put in glass.
No.
In actual cans.
In tin cans. And he'd seal 'em, and then we'd cook 'em. Cook 'em so many hours. And then he'd fix—you know there's a little hole right on top of the can—he'd take a drop of sodder and put it on every one of them. Sometime we'd can as much as four and five hundred cans.
What would you do with all of them.
Well, eat them.
Just your family?
Gosh, it'd take a whole lot for a family of twelve.
Well, did other people can or is that unusual?
Yeah, everybody canned. And you saved everything you could for winter time. 'Cause you didn't make but four and five dollars a week.
Because you all were the superintendent's family, did you all have a little more money or a little better wages than most of the people who worked.
Well, daddy had a little better wages, but we didn't. We fared just like the rest of the help. It didn't make a bit of difference and I think he was stricter on us than he was the rest of the help. He made us do, and do right.
Who was that, your father.
Yeah. And when we come from that mill, we didn't set at the table and talk about what the other fellow done down there—if we did we got our mouth mashed. He didn't laugh, no sir.
He was pretty strict.
He says, you leave the mill out of your conversation, he says, leave it, there's enough to talk about you all. And he didn't allow us to say a word about it.
Well, what kind of things—what was he talking about?
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
What kind of things did he talk about?
Well, you know how people will talk in a place like that—anywhere where there's a crowd. He didn't allow us to talk about it. He said, now let the other fellow do that.
Well, when you all got off of work—you said about six o'clock, you worked from six to six—then would you have supper?
Yeah, we'd have supper.
Would that be right after you got off of work?
Yeah, mother always had our meals ready when we got home.
Would they be different than the other meals.
Yeah, most of the time.
How would that be?
Well, sometimes she would fry different things for a whole meal and then—just have different things.
Which was the biggest meal of the day, would you reckon?
Well, I imagine supper was the biggest because we was all there then, all of us. And at lunch time, I generally went home and got the others—when we was several of us at work—their lunch, and carried it back to them. And let them stay down there.
That's when you were working and not when you were going to school.
Yeah. When I wasn't in school.
Well, did you all have any dessert?
Oh yes, we had ice cream, we had cake and pie—all kind of dessert.
Did you make the ice cream yourself.
Yeah.
What kinds did you make?
Made every kind we wanted.
What was your favorite kind?
We generally made vanilla or chocolate, sometime we'd make peach. The fruits that we had, you know, at the different times, when the fruits were ripe and all.
You had an ice cream making machine.
Yeah, we had a ice cream freezer. You could buy the ice. There was ice men come around about three times a week and fill up the ice box. So we used it out of there.
Where would the ice man come from?
Burlington.
And would he come all times of the year.
Yeah, he'd come any time you wanted him to.
Did most everybody have an ice box?
Everybody had one. Everybody here, I don't know whether everybody had one
or not
In Glencoe.
Yes. And this place was a pretty place and they kept it fixed up and it was clean. You could see all over yonder. There wasn't no trees—nothing but these maple trees. All them other big trees, except that one yonder—them two down there at that old spring, they've been there every since I can remember.
Well what were some of the different kinds of cake that you had.
Oh, we had chocolate cake, we had banana cake, we had all kind of cakes that you could think of.
Did you have some made out of nuts?
Yeah.
Was your mother a good cook?
Ooh—my mother was a number one cook. And that colored girl that we had was a number one cook too. Or daddy wouldn't have kept her.
Did you learn how to cook some things from them?
Ooh—my momma learned every one of us to cook and sew and do housework. And you done it right, didn't you went back and done it over.
Did she write down any recipes or did she just know 'em.
We had cookbooks, just like we do now. From different ones.
Do you remember what any of those were called.
No, I didn't pay no attention to it you see. I didn't have it to do and
When was it that you started working in the mill?
I started working in the mill when I was eighteen.
Was that about the time most people started.
No, some of 'em—my sister started when she wasn't but nine year old. And my brother did too. Back then they'd start from eight and nine, until they passed that child labor law you know, where they couldn't work.
Well what did your brothers and sisters do when they started work.
Well, I had one sister that was a weaver. I had a brother that was a carding room man, he was fixer in the carding room. And I had a brother that worked in the finishing room, where they finish the cloth. And I had a sister that worked in the finishing room, and I had one that worked in the drawing and twisting room—besides myself, I worked there. Me and her worked in the drawing and twisting room.
That's what you did when you first started?
Yeah.
Do you remember, maybe you don't, but do you remember the first time you went down to go to work?
No. I used to carry lunch down there to my sister and to another fellow that worked down there that lived over the other side of us. I'd carry lunch down there and while she was eating her lunch I learned to work on her job. And that's how I learned. I was already learned when I went to work, 'cause I'd work every day on her job while she ate her lunch. I learned to twist in and then after I went to work, I learned to draw in. I worked 'till they shut down down there.
In fifty four?
In fifty four.
Did you stay at the same job?
Yeah. Oh, I didn't—I worked in the weaving room, or I worked upstairs or I worked in the draw in room—I worked anywhere they wanted me to. I worked over at the finishing room, when they needed me, I just worked wherever they need me.
Did you like the work?
Yeah, I liked the work. I wish it was running now, I'd be at work.
It was cotton, and made outing. Made this here outing like you see men's shirts made out of them outing shirts—that's what they made here.
What was it like on the inside, did it have windows in it?
Yeah, there was windows in the mill.
Was it light?
Light, and they did—now I don't remember that but I've heard 'em laugh about having the man to fill the oil light and light the lights. Whenever it began to get dark enough to light lights. George's daddy done that for awhile.
It was open from six in the morning until six at night?
Yeah. And they heat the mill one time by stoves. But, I don't believe—yes
you can—where that round place is up there on the end of the mill.
That's where the chimbley is at—the both ends of the mill.
That would be to keep it warm?
Yeah. They heated the stoves. Now, I don't know what they burned in them stoves, they could burn wood I reckon. Because I know I was a great big girl when we began to get coal and have a coal stove.
Well, were there different parts to the mill, you talk about upstairs and downstairs.
Yeah. There's three floors.
What went on on each of the floors?
Well, the weaving room was in the bottom floor, and spinning. The little weaving room was on the second floor. Then the carding room was on the third floor and the twist in and draw in room was on the third floor.
So you worked up on the third floor a lot.
Yeah. I worked up on the third floor, and sometime I worked down in the weaving room.
Did people like to do some jobs better than others?
Yeah, yeah. Different ones had a certain job that they liked to do—and they wanted that job, they didn't want to do nothing else.
Did some of the jobs pay better than the others.
Yeah.
How did that go?
Well they'd paid by the hour, most of the time.
Which ones were better, how did that work?
The hour work, you made more for that because you're paid so much an hour you know. Now when I went to work I made eighty five cents a day. Well, that's what I made, eighty five cents a day. And when I quit work I made a dollar and sixty nine cents a hour.
What about different jobs, did different jobs pay different things?
Yeah.
Could you tell me about that.
Different jobs. Now a weaver made more than spinning and carding, and made more than we did in the drawing in room. But we finally did get it raised up to where we made more than they did.
Made more than who did?
The weaving.
Oh really?
Yeah, because we worked by the piece, you know. You work by the piece you can make more if you want to and if yif yon't want to you can fall down on the job.
Well, what did it sound like inside?
Well, it was just a fuss, all I know.
Was there too much noise sometimes?
It was all the time, you couldn't hear your—you couldn't hear nothing.
Did people ever worry that they would hurt their ears, would they worry about their hearing or anything like that?
No, I never knowed 'em to say nothing about it.
I've heard some songs that people used to sing about working in the mill. Did people ever sing in there?
Yeah, they'd sing, but you couldn't hear 'em.
Did you ever do any singing when you were in there?
Not hardly, 'cause I don't sing.
What were the songs that people would sing. Would they be about the work itself or would they be other kind of songs?
They'd be different kinds. I don't remember what they was.
Would sometimes people sing songs about their jobs?
Yeah. And I did have a piece that one man wrote about the whole mill, and I lost it somewhere. He made up a song about the whole mill—but I forget what it was, don't you George?
What?
The song where, was it Walt Dickens or—who was it made that song up about the mill, and it started at the first of it. Where it started in, the cotton started in. But I can't remember who it was.
What was the song about?
It was about the different kind of works you know. And he rhymed it up and he made a song, a great long song. Because he started where it went in the breakers at the lap room and went on up. But I can't remember who it was, been so long ago.
Did he sing it?
Yeah.
When would he sing it?
Well, there was a crowd of 'em that picked guitar and the banjo and different string instruments. We run by water then, had water wheels—that was the power that run the mill—and when the water'd get low, maybe they'd stop off for a hour or two. Well these gang of boys would get their instruments and get out there in the front of the mill, and they would sing and pick the guitar and the banjo, and different kind of string music. And maybe they'd stand an hour or two and the water'd gain up, and they'd start back up.
How often would that happen?
That was in the summer time. And when the water got low—the water'd get low—there's a big old rock out there they call Lily and—I forget the other one's name, but there's two of 'em. When you begin to see them two rocks, you'd know we was going to get a rest. 'Cause the water was getting low. (George: Yeah, they made up songs whenever the water'd get low.) Get out in front of the mill under two big trees—they done cut the two trees down in front of the mill now. Get out there in the shade and sing.
Do you reckon that'd be once a week or once a month in the summer time, or how much?
Oh, sometime it was two or three times a week. When it didn't rain. We had dry weather just like we have now. People say, oh I don't remember it. Well I remember it very well, for I was working in the mill. And I know'd when it'd shut down for low water.
Do you remember any other songs. That's a good song that you remembered there, do you remember any others?
No, I don't.
Would people sing church music?
Yeah, they'd sing sacred songs, and they would sing jazz.
Jazz?
Yeah.
That used to be the main one.
Yes it was. Just a whole lot of songs, but I don't remember.
Did people know the names of different singing groups, different musicians that played their songs.
Yeah.
Do you remember any of those groups at all?
No, I don't.
What about record players and radios and things like that?
Yeah, we had a record player and we had—the first little radio I ever saw was just about like that, wasn't it. Just a little square box, about half as big as that. And you listened at it through earphones.
Did you all have one like that?
No, we didn't have one like that. 'Cause there was too many of us, and daddy said we'd fuss over it. And he'd just wait 'till a bigger one come out. So when the big one come out, he bought us one. We had a piano, an organ, and all.
So you went to somebody's house and heard that little one with the earphones?
Yeah, Claude Phillips was the first man and the first one that I ever know'd to have one, wasn't he.
Do you remember what you heard?
No, I don't.
Did you hear music, or talking?
Yeah, they had mostly music. He lived right out there.
Was it a station that was far away from here or close by?
This here was just a record.
Oh, a phonograph.
It was a little phonograph. You could hear it though, through them earphones. (George: Played it with a needle.) No this here—yeah, that one played with a needle but you had to listen with the earphones, you had to listen that a way, you couldn't hear it—it didn't have no loudspeakers on it. But now, our'n was a great big one, had a morning glory horn—great big horn you know. And it had big records.
What kind of records?
Well, oh some of was that big around, wasn't they George?
Do you remember what they were?
No.
Would it be music some?
Yeah, they'd be music and dancing and singing.
Would it be country music?
Yeah.
Music from around North Carolina?
I reckon it was, I don't know.
What about, you know, some of it had orchestras.
I know it.
Did you have any of that?
Yeah. We had all kind of records, we did.
Where did you buy your records?
From Ellis Music Store in Burlington. They still got a music store.
Is that right?
I believe—I know old man Ellis is dead and his wife's dead, but I believe
he's got a son that runs that music store.
You all had a piano and an organ?
Yeah.
Who played 'em?
My sisters.
Did you play?
I never did try.
Did you sing?
Yeah, we all sing. I got a sister that did teach music awhile, but she isn't doing nothing now.
When would you do your singing and music making?
At night, and on Sunday. 'Cause we worked 'till twelve o'clock on
Saturday. Sing and play, maybe there'd be half a dozen different
families, children come up there.
What if you wanted to go off and visit somebody else?
Well, he'd let us go but we had to be back by ten o'clock.
You couldn't go by yourself.
No. We'd go to different parties—ice cream parties, and box parties, and different things like that. But now we didn't stay out no later than ten o'clock. Then he'd come after us.
What's a box party?
Well, the women would make the boxes and put different things to eat in it and the one that bought the box, they'd eat supper with the girl that was the one that made it, you know.
What kind of things would they put in 'em.
Well, they'd have supper in 'em. They'd have fried chicken, and ham and cake, pie—just a whole lot of things in the box. Have plenty for two's supper.
Where would that be held.
At the school house. In the auditorium.
Let's go back to the bread, and how that changed. Do you remember when people quit making the bread and started buying it.
Well, no I don't. I don't remember, 'cause that's been a long time ago.
'Cause you said your mother made this.
Yeah, my mother used to make her—light rolls they called 'em. And they were just as good as any light bread you ever eat.
But people were already buying light bread then.
Yeah. But she made that before they was buying it because she made that
years and years ago. And she took flour, and we used to use lard where
they use oil now. She took buttermilk and yeast and just a tiny bit of
sugar. But I don't remember all she put in there
Did you all change from one kind of flour to another, any time?
Well, whenever they begin to put out this self rising flour—my momma bought that. But she didn't buy it regular, she used her old straight grade flour where it was ground at the mill. And there's a mill up yonder right above Green Acres that still grinds flour—makes flour. It's on the river, and it's water ground.
One last thing, do you remember any of the names—when they started making the self rising flour—what brands?
No I don't, I don't remember.
Where would you buy that?
We'd buy it down here at the company store.
And would the flour man, Mr. Johnson, did he quit coming around?
Well he died, of course he quit coming around.
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
[START OF TAPE 2, SIDE A]
After they built that they never did run much. I reckon the old head gates is out, up there now.
You haven't been back there to look in awhile?
No.
Oh really. What kind of meanness?
I don't know, for I don't go up there.
I ain't got no business up there neither.
I ain't got no business up that river.
Might run into a still.
Is that what goes on up there.
I don't know.
We don't go up there, we don't mess around up there. And none of these people down here don't—used to. We'd go up there fishing, going swimming in the pond. But since they've turned loose so much old poison in there, nobody don't go up there an go in no more.
When you all were working in the mill, you say you used to go fishing and hunt muscadines?
Yeah.
When did you stop doing that?
Well, we been stopped ever since they started the mill on the third shift.
When would that have been, do you reckon?
Oh, I don't know, I don't remember.
Would it be after World War II?
Yeah. The mill was running in World War II.
But they didn't run a third shift before then, did they?
No, didn't run second shift. We never did run no more than one shift, that I can remember, 'till after they went on eight hour law. We never did.
But you would run a ten or twelve hour shift.
Yeah. We went to work at six o'clock and come home at six. And had forty five minutes for lunch.
When did that law change things?
Didn't it change in thirty two—I believe it did in July. ‘Cause the reason I remember so well—we were down to George's fathers’, he lived at Hopedale. And he said then, that was on a Saturday—no, we went down there one day through the week. He said, well, I'll never live to work on a eight hour law. You know he died on Sunday, before the eight hour law come in on Monday.
I guess that would make you remember it.
That's the reason I remember it so well. But I don't remember exactly what the date was, but I know it was in thirty two that the law come in.
They went right along with the law, and they didn't—here, the people who were running the mill.
Yeah.
What did they think about it.
Well, they didn't say a word about it, not here they didn't. And other places that I know of they didn't. Everybody was glad of it. See, this mill has never been union.
Never.
No, we never had no union.
Well, did anybody ever try to start a union here?
Yes, they tried several times, but I don't remember what they done about it. They never done nothing about it because they never did get it. Nobody wouldn't vote for the union.
They tried several times.
Yes. But they never did get it.
Did they try it while your father was superintendent.
Yeah. Now, he'd of paid a bit more attention to it, he would of—dog
barking.
Well, who would be the ones that would try to get it started.
I don't know who the one was, it was somebody'd come here. And I just
remember 'em talking about it because, we didn't never ask daddy nothing
about the mill because that was one thing he didn't allow. He said,
wasn't none of our business—that's just what he'd say.
And you'd better do just what he said too.
And we know'd it.
Well, you're saying that the people that started the union, they didn't live here, but they came in from somewhere else?
Came in from somewhere else, and I don't know who they was.
Did they work here?
No.
They didn't even work here. Well, when would this have been, do you reckon, just generally.
Well I don't know, I can't tell you. 'Cause I don't remember, 'cause I never went to work in the mill 'till after I was eighteen years old. So I just don't know.
Do you remember any union people in the 1930's.
No I don't.
They had something called a general strike, in a lot of different mills.
A lot of mills struck, but I didn't know nothing about it.
Did anybody here go on strike ever?
No.
Is that right.
No, there wasn't no union here.
Why was it that you didn't start working in the mill until you were eighteen?
Well, my mother and father had a big family of children. And as we got
big enough to help her with the housework, why we helped her until one
of the others got big enough to help
So you were along about—you had three of 'em I think that were younger than you.
Yeah, there's more than that younger than I am.
Well, did some of them start to work in the mill before you did, some of the younger ones?
No.
Why not.
Well because they weren't old enough and they didn't go to work. We went to school, as long as we could.
Did you go all the way through high school.
No, I finished the eighth grade. I didn't go through high school.
Did you want to go some more?
No. I finished the eighth grade in May, I believe school was out first of May. And then the next March I got married and I didn't go back to school no more.
How old were you when you got married?
Nineteen. I was nineteen December, and got married in March.
Well how did that happen, how did you all meet each other.
Oh, we know'd each other from childhood. Just raised up you might say, together. All lived here on the hill you see. That's how we met.
Did you have an engagement, anything like that?
No, I didn't let nobody know a thing about it until we got married.
Just all of a sudden you told them.
No. We were engaged about three years before we got married.
But nobody knew about it.
Nobody knew it but me and him.
What kind of a wedding did you have?
We just went to a magistrate and got married.
Where was that, where did you go?
Down to Mr. Charlie Wilson, who lived down here on the road to Carolina.
Why did you decide to get married right then and not wait.
Well, because my people were against it—they didn't want me to marry. And I slipped off and married him—I was old enough, they couldn't help it.
So you waited until you got to be eighteen.
I was old enough, 'till I was a nineteen year old.
Did they have any reasons.
Nope, no. They didn't have none.
Well what did they say after you all had gotten married, what did they think about it.
Nothing. No, they didn't say nothing. They said that we was married and that's all there was to it. Couldn't do nothing about it.
Did you all still get along.
Oh yeah.
It didn't change how you got along at all.
We got along good. And I reckon my mammy and daddy. loved George just as
good as they did me—I know they did.
Well did you all move into a house of your own right after you got married?
We moved in a house over on that street—a little three room house. Then, we decided we wanted a bigger house and we moved on to this house. Back then they'd let you have a house—if it come empty you could get it, if you lived here. Of course now, they was particular—they rented houses too. They didn't have none of this here fighting and drinking and cutting up. You done that, you got out.
Who would see to it that the people got the houses, and if they were rowdy, who would see to it that they were . . .
My daddy was the one rented the houses, every one of 'em.
Do you remember him ever having those times where he had to put somebody out of a house?
No, no. I never did. I don't remember 'till this day that he ever put anybody out. But now he'd go and talk to 'em, and tell 'em he just wasn't going to have it. And he wouldn't. But I never did know him to put nobody out.
Well what kind of things would make him mad so that he would go and talk to them.
Well, if they got drunk and got to fighting and cutting up he'd go
and—try to, you know, straighten it out—and tell 'em just what they'd
have to do if they didn't. And, they'd straighten up about it. We had a
decent place to live all the time, and we haven't had no rough people
here until the last few years that they run, have we George? (George:
That's right.) And then they got in some rough ones but they didn't stay
long. And this was a pretty place, they kept it clean, it was clean as
it could be. And all this growth around here has growed up since this
mill shut down. `Cause every one
Well, to go way back again, to think back to your grandparents. As far as you know did they live on a farm?
As far as I know, part of 'em did. And then part of 'em lived here at Carolina, worked down there.
In the mill.
In the mill. And then, there was people lived down at the Hopedale that had a grist mill down there-where they ground the wheat and the corn, made flour and everything. And that's as far back as I remember.
Now what about your father. Did he grow up on a farm or was he one of those that lived in
Yeah. They had a farm over there right this side of Mount Zion Baptist Church. They lived over there, but now to what his people done, I don't know. For they was both dead when I come up.
But you don't think they ever worked in a mill?
No, I don't think they did. Daddy I think is the only one. Then, daddy's mother's sister had some children, her and her husband. And I don't know whether you ever heard anybody talk about Tobe Sullivan in Greensboro? Well that's one of her children. She was a Sullivan—she married a Sullivan. She was a Marshall and married a Sullivan. And that's the only one on daddy's side of the people that I knew except his two sisters.
He had a twin sister didn't he?
Yeah.
Her name was Alice?
Yes.
Now what became of her.
She died.
When was that.
She died here, she been dead about two years, didn't she, before daddy died. (George: Yeah, I think so.)
What did she do?
She worked at Plaid Mill. She was a drawing in twister hand at Plaid Mill, as long as I can remember. And she worked there 'till just, oh, two or three year before she died. She died when she was seventy and daddy died when he was seventy two. Just two years difference.
And now, what about the other sister?
Well, she died, I can't remember how long she been dead.
What was her name?
Who was that?
Mag, Maggie Allen. Jim Allen's wife.
That's way back isn't it?
What did she do, did she work in the mill too?
I don't know whether she did. She never did that I know of.
Was she older or younger than. . . .
She was older. She was older than daddy, right much older.
But you say you don't really think she did, work in the mill.
No, I don't think she worked in the mill.
What about her husband, what did he do?
He worked in the mill. He worked in the mill up until . . .
Which one, which mill?
Down here.
Down here at Glencoe.
Yeah, he worked down there from the time I could remember anything, until he died.
I see, did they live here?
Yeah, they lived on back a street. They lived here.
Well, what about the different people that your father worked for. How many of those people would there be and what are the names of some of those people that he worked for.
Here at the mill?
Yeah.
He was superintendent, he worked for R. L. Holt.
That was the first one that he worked for.
Over here. Now, he worked at other places but I don't know . . .
Yes'm. But over here Mr. Holt was the first one, okay, and then after him who would it be.
Who took daddy's place?
No, I mean after Mr. Holt.
It was Mr. Green's family. See, they were heirs, Mr. Green—Walter Green. And then Holt, he was the one that took training for a cotton mill, so he went to the war and got killed. And Walter said he couldn't run it, he said he wasn't no cotton mill man.
So it would have been R. L. Holt and then Mr. Green, Walter Green?
Yeah.
And then, what would be the last one, the one that got killed?
Robert Holt.
Holt Green?
Holt Green, yeah. And now I don't nothing about them much, only they'd
come up here in the summer time and stay with their Uncle Bob—they
called him. But that's all I know about 'em. They come up to our house
and play with our brothers. They'd come up here and stay the whole
summer with him. And they was two devilish a boys as ever you've seen in
your life. They had a cart and a pony and they'd get in that cart, and
of all the riding you've ever seen they'd do it.
Well who was it that lived down here in this house on the corner?
Bob Holt.
And did the Green's ever live there, any of them?
No. Nothing but Robert and Holt would come up here, when they was boys and stay with their uncle.
That's where they would stay.
And then Bob Holt moved over in the house over there where Walter Green lives now. And he died over there.
Did your father ever talk about any of those people that he worked for, what did he think about them?
No, he didn't ever. He never talked to us about no mill business.
That was just left behind.
Mill business was left at the mill when he came home. (George: That's right.) And if we went and talked about it he'd shut us up right then. He didn't allow us to talk about it. And now, the mill's down yonder, and we're at home.
Why do you think he did that, why?
I don't know, but he didn't allow us to talk about it. Nothing'd happen down there now, we didn't have. . . . We could tell momma but we'd have to tell her when he wasn't around. We couldn't tell him, no sir, we couldn't tell him. (George: Better off if they'd do that now.)
Well now, you all wouldn't worry so much.
Well, momma was always going to see the sick, you know, down here on the
hill. Well Kate's mother was bad off and she told daddy that she wanted
to come down here—it was about, a little after supper. So he and her
come. And momma said when she got down here that Kate's mother was dying
and she hated to leave her. So her and daddy just stayed on 'till after
she died. And Kate went out on the porches in the summer time. And she
told daddy, she said now—she always called him Uncle Man—and she says
now, Uncle Man, I ain't got nobody, she says, momma's gone. And says, I
want to come and stay with you. Daddy said, well I got eight of my own,
but one more won't make no difference, just come on when you get ready.
Well her brothers wanted
So he just got rid of him. And him and mother went to Graham, he didn't adopt her. He just went down there and had it fixed so that he could keep her. With that they could afford to pay the board that he wanted for her. And so she stayed at that house until she was eighteen year old.
How old was she when she came?
She was between five and six, she was just a child.
Now what had happened—did you all ever know what had happened to her mother, what it was that she died of?
Yes, she died of some kind of fever. I don't know what it was, I don't remember.
What about her father, Kate's father. Where was he?
He was dead. He died and her mother married again.
But there wasn't—was there a man in the household then.
Yeah.
That was the man she had married again.
Yeah. And Kate didn't want to stay with him. He would have stayed, he was
a good man. And he would have stayed there and kept the children
together. But her children by her other husband was all married but
two—they were older you know. And so, the married ones didn't want to
keep them but they wanted to put 'em somewhere else.
Well your mother and her mother must have been pretty good friends.
They were good friends. They weren't a bit of kin in the world. But they were just good friends. Well I don't know of nobody that my momma wasn't a good friend to. I couldn't tell you anybody.
And you say she was a real talker.
Oh yes, she just loved to talk and laugh. But she didn't want to talk about nobody. No sir. She'd get up and leave if you went to talk about somebody, she'd leave right then. She just like that.
Be better if we'd all do that, wouldn't it?
Let me ask some more then about this kind of thing. Was it unusual for a family to take in a child like that?
Nope.
You knew other people that did that?
Yeah now. It wasn't nothing unusual. They didn't have but—I don't remember of but one children's home, and that was up here at Elon.
That's still up there too, isn't it?
Oh yes, it's still up there.
Well, when children were working in the mill—when they got paid did they give the money to their parents?
Parents, yes.
How would you do that, how did that work.
Well now, if there's more than one worked, they'd just make out one pay check to the parents and all of 'em that'd be down there. How many days and how many hours, everything, was right on there.
And would the parents give the children an allowance or any money.
Yes, they'd give 'em some—give 'em whatever they wanted. We got whatever we wanted. Daddy let us run charge accounts here at the store for clothing, things like that. He run charge accounts at Sellars'. You know Sellars'.
That's in Burlington.
In Burlington, yeah.
That's an old store.
Old store, I reckon it is. (George: I reckon it is. Older than I am.)
It's been Sellars' ever since I can remember. And I
What did they sell?
All kind of dry goods. Had ready made things.
Well would you all buy clothes that were already made or would you make your own.
No, momma generally made ours.
I see.
Of course we bought maybe a suit or something like that. But we always bought the cloth and she made it.
Did she teach you all how to sew and make things.
Every one of us.
Did you keep on doing that?
Yeah. I sewed until I lost this eye. I lost this eye and got a cataract on this one so I don't. I make a lot of quilts but other than that I don't do much sewing, 'cause I can't.
How'd you lose that eye, Ethel?
Blood clot.
Well now, let's talk about you all's children. When did you have your first child. How long had you been married and how far apart were your children?
Around two years. I was married eleven months when my first baby come.
And what was his name?
Robert. He's dead. He died, when flu was—1918.
Nineteen eighteen. So he was a real young child.
Nine months old.
Well lots of people remember that flu.
Yeah, I reckon they do. I had pneumonia and George did too. And my baby died, and my brother's baby. And lord, sometimes there'd be three and four in this village, laying a corpse at one time.
Well were there doctors or anybody to help out.
Yeah, Dr. Walter and Dr. Anderson and Dr. Vosit. And And there was Dr.
Montgomery and Dr. Moore.
I think you all have a visitor here.
Oh it's nobody but Carl, one of my brothers. Just come by here to get some things.
Let's talk some more about the flu epidemic then. Do you remember how it started?
No I don't. I don't know how it started. But I know there wasn't a family on this place what didn't have three or four with it. I know that all of us had it. And all of us near about were down at one time.
[END OF TAPE 2, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 2, SIDE B]
And all of us near about were down at one time. All except mother and she
never did have it. She waited on all of us. And George's father, he
said, well that wasn't right. George should be up there for momma had as
much as she could do and he was going to bring George down here to his
house. Well he did. And me and the
Did it close down the mill.
Yeah, the mill had to close down. There was one man that didn't have the flu and when the doctor got out here, why, he'd follow him and get the prescriptions and carry 'em back to Burlington and get the medicine. That was Henry Wilson. His family had the flu but he'd take time out long enough to go have everybody's prescription filled and bring it back and deliver it.
How long did it take from the beginning to the end of all of that flu, how long was that?
I reckon it was two months, wasn't it George?
Yeah, I reckon so.
Every day, you'd hear somebody's died. And they couldn't build coffins fast enough to take care of it. It was terrible. I hope they never will be like that no more. Of course now people say, oh I've got the flu. But I don't believe it.
How long do you reckon the mill stayed closed?
The mill stayed closed 'till people got able to go back to work to start
it back up.
Were there any other times that you remember the mill being closed?
No.
That was the only time.
Only time that I know it was closed for any sickness or anything like that.
Well all of the children, your brothers and sisters that went to work in the mill—did any of them ever have any kind of accidents at the mill when they were little?
No. You didn't hear tell of many accidents in the mill and they worked 'em from about eight year old on up. You didn't hear no tell of 'em getting hurt, bad. Of course they'd have a few minor cuts or something like that. But there wasn't nothing hardly ever that they had to go to a doctor.
Nobody lost their fingers or hands?
No. The only one that I ever know'd, I didn't know it. It had happened before I come along. It was a boy, got killed down here in the wheel. (George: What happened?) And that's the only bad accident that I know of, wasn't it? (George: Yeah.)
In the mill wheel, that big wheel?
Yeah, the big wheel.
How did he do that?
Somebody said that there's another boy pushed him off in there. But now
we don't know, we don't know nothing about that. I don't. [Interruption from George: indistinguishable]
Well when World War I came along, did that affect your lives any around here?
Oh, I reckon it did. So many of the boys had to go. That's why Holt Green went. He said, all of his boys was going his age and he's going too. And he did.
That was World War I.
Two.
What about World War I.
Well there was a lot of 'em left here to World War I. They all come back except Walter Ellis, didn't he. (George: That's right.) We had one to get killed, one of the boys from here at the mill on World War I.
Did that leave the mill short handed at all, after that war, World War I.
Well, until they could get somebody to take their places, they were short a little while but not long.
Who would take their places?
Just different ones that got old enough.
Did women do jobs that they wouldn't have done before?
Yeah. And Bob Holt always claimed that he raised his help.
Well were there different jobs for men and women, did they do different things?
Yeah.
Which were the ones that the women would do that the men wouldn't do.
Well now, there wasn't many. Now both women and men worked in the weaving room—weaver s you know—weaver s, loom fixers, and all. Well in the spinning room it was all women that worked up there except the fixer and the overseer. And in the carding room the men worked up there, didn't they?
Huh?
All men worked in the carding room.
Just about.
There was one old lady that worked in the carding room until she died. That was Miss Catherine Wren.
Why was she working there?
Well, she had always worked up there.
She liked that?
I reckon she did. She always worked up there, and she worked up there until she died. And then there was, let's see, a Montgomery man died up there in the carding room tower. And I believe there was another one died on the steps, wasn't there, with a heart attack. But I can't remember who it was. (George: That's right, I can't either.) It was a Montgomery man that died up in the carding room.
Ed Montgomery.
Yeah, Ed Montgomery.
Well, now the mill used to run off water power and then it switched over didn't it?
Yeah.
When did it switch over to electricity?
I don't know. I was little when it switched over. I don't remember. I know they built the big power plant up the river, up there where the—I believe it's the Indian Golf Course. I don't know whether you've ever heard about it, you might have heard about it.
I drove by there.
You did. Well, it was up there. They built a big power plant and made their own current.
Well, the time you were talking about when the water was getting down and people knew they were going to have time off, that was when they were still running on water.
Running the big wheel. Running the water wheel.
And so after that change, they wouldn't have that time off like before.
No. They wouldn't have that time off no more after that.
It meant that they could just run all the time.
Yeah. They had a big plant up there. So after the mill shut down, there was some boys from Burlington burned the club house and the plant too down, up there.
Well what about when they passed this child labor law. Did that . . .
That stopped the children, you know, under fourteen, from working.
Did they obey the law?
Yes, they obeyed the law.
Who would see to it that they obeyed the law. The superintendent?
Yeah, the superintendent.
You all went to Burlington now and then to go shopping?
Yeah. We bought our groceries down here at the store and the we could buy
dry goods here at the store. Overalls, work shirts and things like that,
you could buy down here at the company store. And shoes, and all like
that—go down there and get 'em. But when you wanted hats—you know they
wore hats back then.
How often would you go to Burlington?
Every Saturday.
In the morning?
No, you worked 'till twelve o'clock. And then you'd go to town Saturday afternoon.
How would you go?
Well we had a horse and carriage and we had a buggy and we'd go that-a-way. When there wasn't but two or three of us going, why we'd just hitch up to the buggy and go on.
How long would you stay?
Stayed 'till dark if we wanted to.
What all would you do besides go to the store?
Well you see there's a whole lot more stores. They had what they called a grotto—a show you'd go to.
A grotto?
Yeah.
That would be a movie?
Yeah, it's a movie, but it wasn't a talking movie, it was just pictures, you know. And so, you'd go there, and go different places in town. Just stay all evening if you want to, come back when you got ready. And all out there where the theatre—I believe there's a theatre on that block—florist, and a furniture store, and different stores there on that block. There was a big white house, two story, in a grove of big oak trees. It was Zeb Walters. And fourth of July, that's where they had the fourth of July at, there in that grove round Zeb Walters house.
What would that be like?
Well, people all went the fourth, went to town that day. They always stood on that day, let you go to town on the fourth of July. They'd have a big parade and then they'd have stands you know, where they sold something to eat and to drink and just have a big time, that day over there. People gather over there by the hundreds.
Did you stay after dark?
Yeah, you could stay after dark if you wanted to. Because you wasn't scared to come through Nigger Town on account of the niggers weren't mean, they were just as humble as they could be. And you treat them right and they'd treat you right.
What kind of jobs did they have?
Well, different jobs. Some of 'em worked on the streets, and different things.
But they didn't work in any of the mills?
No, they didn't work none in the mill. But they had jobs to do—some clean streets and different things you know, where you have, in a town. They worked the whole time, to make a living.
Well, when you all did any travelling around besides going into Burlington, where else would you go?
Well, about every year, we'd take a vacation, like I'd take now.
How long would you get?
A week. And sometimes, we generally all of us went to Norfolk, and Newport News, and down around in there. And they'd charter a train and get so many hundred to go from here and from Burlington—any where around here, you know, that wanted to go. And we'd go down there and stay a week. And then we'd come back in time to go to work.
What time of year?
In July, when it was hot.
People would go to the beach.
Yeah, go to the beach.
And all of you would go together.
Yeah, just be two or three hundred maybe. Be a train load.
What kind of places would you stay in when you got there?
Go to the hotel, and stay in the hotel.
When did they start doing that, do you reckon?
I don't know. I know we went—I don't know how many times, we didn't go.
Would they have been doing that, say before World War I.
Oh yeah.
As far back as you can remember?
It was way back when I was just a child, we went down there.
Where would you go to catch the train, into Burlington?
Burlington. Catch the train right there at the depot in Burlington.
Would you go anywhere else then?
Yes. We'd go to Greensboro, go to Salisbury, and different places.
Why would you go to Greensboro?
Just to go shopping.
Well, we kind of got lost, we started talking about your children and then you got onto the flu, because that was real interesting, but let's go back and pick up again about your different children and what became of them.
Well mine are all right around here except one and he's in Fayetteville. Of course I've got a grandson in Germany, I got a granddaughter in California, I got a granddaughter in Philadelphia, and then my son lives in Fayetteville, I got one lives here in Burlington on South Ashland Drive. One lives at Haw River, and I got one lives about two mile out here on Smith Store Road.
Well did any of your children ever work in the mills?
All of 'em.
They all worked in the mill.
Did any of them ever work here in Glencoe?
Yeah, every one worked here in Glencoe first.
Oh, I see. When did they start, how old were they when they started out?
Well, I reckon they was about eighteen when they went to work, wasn't they George?
Who?
Paul, and Hubert and Don and Hope.
If I was going to be shot I couldn't tell you that.
They worked. They went to school and Hubert and Hope, they finished school. Paul, he went into the eleventh grade and he wouldn't go back that year, he'd a finished that year. And Don went into the eleventh grade and didn't finish. I had two to finish and two to quit.
Well, when you all were buying things at the different stores, you mentioned that people could buy things on a credit and you could pay cash. But did they also have different kind of scrip or other kind of ways to buy things. Some of these mills, you know, had the. . . .
No. They just got their paycheck, regular paycheck. And he went in there every week and paid it up.
What about different kinds of religion. You all had two or three churches right here, didn't you?
Didn't have but one.
This one that was. . . .
This one where it's felled down.
There was one up on the hill.
Yeah, there is now but there wasn't back then. Let's see, that one has been organized, I forget how long it's been organized, but it's been organized a long time up here.
Did a lot of people go to different churches, or did most everybody go to the same one?
No, most everybody here on the hill went to this little church down here. It was a union church and any preachers could preach there except the Mormons.
I see. It wasn't a particular denomination.
No, any preachers. So we had a Baptist church down here and a Methodist
church that was in that same building. One had their meeting on the
morning and one in the afternoon. And then the Baptists decided that if
Bob Holt would give them the land to build on up yonder, why they would
build. So he did, he give 'em the land,
And you say that's because the deed is kind of tangled up?
Deed is willed back to the old generation—is what they tell me, now I don't know. I never have see'd it, I'd have to see the deed if I know'd, but I don't know. But they say it's willed back to the Holt generation.
Did most of the people here go to one of the church services?
Yeah, some of 'em went to both.
Did the ministers live here?
No.
Where were they from?
They were from Burlington.
Now, did people take up a collection to pay them some?
Yeah.
Do you know if the Holts ever contributed any to them.
Oh yes. The Holts did all the time.
To their salary?
Yeah. And now, the last few years that Holt Green lived, he give each
church a thousand dollars a year, that was here. He'd
Did they ever go to the service?
Yes, they'd go. Mr. Walter did and Holt did. He'd go with the boys wherever they went—he'd go on with them. That's the reason he went to the army and got killed—World War II.
Did they have any musical instruments in the churches, piano?
Yep. We had a organ first and then we had a piano. Now we got a organ and a piano.
What were the books that you would sing out of, do you remember. Did you use books?
Yeah, we had a Baptist hymnal.
Did you ever sing the shape notes?
Yeah.
Did they ever have those kind of singing schools?
Yeah. Old Man Pied was one that (sining master), and we had another but I can't think of his name.
Pied was one?
Yeah. P-I-E-D.
I see. Did he live here
Yeah, he lived here.
When would he have a singing school?
He'd have a singing school about once a year. You went twelve nights.
Did you go?
Yeah, I went a lot.
And you would learn to sing the notes, shape.
Yeah.
Do you remember whether there were four shapes or seven shapes.
I don't remember, it's been a long time.
Was it sacred harp music, is that what they called it, or do you remember?
I don't remember. That's been a long time.
But you would sing that without any instruments.
No.
You'd have instruments?
Sure, we had a organ.
Even when you were having the singing school.
Yeah. We had a organ down there. We had a organ at home and a piano too.
Yeah I remember, that sounded like a real musical house.
And what they call the phonograph with a great big morning glory horn, and all of that.
Well let me ask you about washing. You talk about you all would make some of your clothes and sometimes you would buy your clothes—what about when it came time to do your washing, clothes washing?
Washed in the tub on the board.
How often would you do that?
Every week.
Was there a particular day?
Yeah, we always done it on Monday if it wasn't raining.
All year round.
Yeah. 'Cause in the summer time we had two big springs down next to the branch back of the house. We carried the wash pot and the tubs and all down there, and we wouldn't have to carry the water.
How many of you would be washing at one time?
There wouldn't be nobody but our family. And we had a colored woman that done the wash.
She would do that. You mean she would help you or she would do it?
No, she'd do it. She done the wash.
She'd do it by herself.
Yeah, she'd come up in the morning and wash.
How would you all pay her, how did that work?
Well, we'd pay her the last of the week. And sometime momma'd pay her when she done it, so she wouldn't have to come back.
Would other people be washing on Monday too?
Yeah. They had a big wash place right down here at this old big poplar tree. Maybe there'd be five or six colored people down there washing clothes.
Well how often would you all get to take a bath?
Every day.
You'd take a bath every day?
Yeah. We had a bathtub.
Inside?
Had a bathtub but we didn't have running water. We had to carry the water
and if it was cool enough we had to heat it. And we
Was that unusual, to take a bath every day.
No, just as ordinary as it is now to take one every day.
What about different kind of sports, or musical groups like bands. Sometimes in different towns the mills would sponsor baseball teams or bands. Did that happen here?
Well, they had string music.
Yes'm you told me about that.
And my daddy was one that belonged to the band, whenever they had a band here. But I don't know nothing about that, that was. . . .
What about ball games?
Yeah.
What kind of ball games?
They had baseball games. It was played back up yonder, the other side of the old home place. Until Bob Holt gave 'em a ball ground and told 'em now they had to play up there. And so they did, they played up there. That's up there out across the highway from the school house, I expect you've been by there.
Would they just kind of choose up and play or would there be a team?
There'd be a team that'd come in from Carolina or from Altamahaw or Ossipee or Hopedale. Different places would come in and play with 'em.
When would those games be held?
On Saturday afternoon. `Cause they worked every day but Saturday.
They wouldn't ever play on Sunday?
No sir, you didn't play on Sunday. If you did you got one of the worst whippings you ever got.
Could you do anything on Sunday?
No, you couldn't cut up and play on Sunday. Sunday was the Sabbath.
You couldn't go fishing either could you?
Nope, you didn't go fishing, you didn't go to a ball game, you didn't go to a movie picture show, and nothing like that on Sunday. Sunday was kept holy.
People would cook though, wouldn't they?
Yeah, they'd cook, but they didn't go . . .
[END OF TAPE 2, SIDE B]
[START OF TAPE 3, SIDE A]
to different places.
Let me ask about, when you all were having your meals in your house when all of the family would have been there—your mother and father and all of your brothers and sisters. Was there a certain way that they would sit around the table.
Yeah, everybody had his own place. And you didn't go to the table and make a fuss either. You went to the table and you behaved yourself.
Would your father and mother sit at a particular end of the table?
One at one end and the other at the other. They see'd everything that was
going on too,
Would there be a prayer at the beginning?
Yeah, they'd return things, mother would most of the time.
And did they pass the food around or did everybody just kind of reach?
They passed the food around and you waited 'till your turn. You know'd
when it was coming to you, and you waited too.
Did your father ever do any of the things like help cook?
No, nor he didn't wash no dishes, no sir. Up until we, some of us got big enough to help do the cooking, he hired somebody to help. And he didn't cook and he didn't wash no dishes. But he expected his meal on the table when he got in from work.
Would your mother kind of wait on the table to serve?
Generally the cook waited on the table, most of the time. We kept the cook until, I reckon 'till I was twelve year old.
You mentioned that you all used to—still do—get the almanac—did you get any other magazines or newspapers?
Oh we got a newspaper all the time.
Which paper did you get?
Burlington paper.
For as long as you can remember.
Yeah, as long as I can remember we got the Burlington paper.
What about any magazines, things like that.
Well, we never did fool with a order for no magazine here at the time,
but we'd buy 'em at the news stand in town lots of time. But back then
you didn't take time to read the magazines and things like that. You
read your school books and . . . (George:
And you would keep 'em right out behind your house.
Yeah. Out here on what they call the hedgerow. Everybody had a barn nearby out there. And of course we always lived back up there in the woods back of the Baptist church.
In other words, the barn would be at a different place than your house, it that right?
Oh yeah. The barn would be way back down there on what we call down on the branch, like.
There would be lots of different barns.
Oh yeah.
And people would keep their animals down there. You wouldn't keep any animals here in this area.
No not out in this side. But kept 'em down yonder on the other side. And then up there at the house—we had our way down there in the field from the house. It wasn't close to the house.
Well, that may do it. One of the other things—did they have any kind of provisions for pensions or insurance or health insurance or anything like that while you all were working there?
No. They didn't have hospitals until I reckon I was near about grown. And the first hospital that I know anything about was St. Leo's Hospital in Greensboro and Dr. Stokes hospital in Salisbury. And I know my momma had appendicitis and they carried her to Salisbury. Then my aunt had gall bladder trouble and they carried her to Raleigh. And then, I can't remember his name, but he come here—he was a doctor and built—oh, Dr. Rainey—built the old Rainey Hospital. That was the first hospital that was ever in Burlington. And then everybody that had to go to the hospital—didn't nobody much go because they never had heard tell of the hospital much. But now they just go if 'ary a little thing happens.
Did people use any of these home remedies?
Oh yeah.
Your mother would. . . .
Yeah. And a heap of times, never had no doctor. Pshaw, if you see'd a
doctor in a year, why that was awful.
Do you remember the name of the main street in Burlington that all these stores were on?
Main Street, yeah.
They would just call it Main Street.
Yeah, it's Main Street now. But they built all that mess up in there and ruined it.
It's changed a lot.
Oh, I reckon they have. Put that old depot down there in the middle of the street—just messed it up just wanting to spend money. That's all it was for, just wanted to spend money.
Well, I think we've about run out on this tape.
END OF INTERVIEW