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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview H-0039, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
James and Nannie Pharis were married in 1911 after meeting at a square dance sponsored by the local cotton mill in Spray, North Carolina. Both had moved into Spray (now Eden) around the turn of the twentieth century when their tenant farmer fathers had decided to pursue work in the local cotton mill industry. In this interview, the Pharises speak together about their experiences at work and in their personal lives, although Nannie Pharis is the primary focus of this interview. (James Pharis's work experience and rise to management is highlighted in a separate interview, H-0038.) After James describes a severe hand injury he received while working as a child at the cotton mill, the interview shifts in focus to Nannie Pharis's family background. As one of thirteen children, Nannie recalls her mother's experiences in childbirth, describing how an African American midwife helped birth most of her siblings. Because the family was so large, Nannie went to work at the cotton mill at the age of nine in order to help supplement the family income. Her father, who had moved the family to Spray to work in the mills, eventually relocated to the countryside because he preferred the life of a farmer. At that time, Nannie moved in with her sister so she could continue to work in town. Following her marriage, Nannie continued to work at the mill until the 1930s. In addition to briefly describing the conditions she faced at work, Nannie discusses family life. She speaks at length about the family labor system she was a part of while growing up. She also describes in detail the kinds of foods her family grew, and discusses family meal times, the role of religion in her family, and interactions between her family and the community. The interview concludes with the Pharises discussing their employment of an African American woman to help with child-rearing and cooking after they had started their family. The interview offers a vivid portrait of work and family life in a southern community that combined industry and farming.
James and Nannie Pharis both began working in the cotton mills of Spray, North Carolina, as children during the turn of the twentieth century. In this interview, which focuses primarily on Nannie Pharis, they discuss working conditions, family life, community gatherings, and foodways in a Southern community that merged industrial and agricultural lifestyles.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
The best thing for me is to go ahead and ask Mr. Pharis these questions and if you feel you have any information you can add, to add. Another time I would like to sit and talk to you in the same kind of way we have done with him.
You had four sisters and one brother.
Yes, I had. They're all dead.
Could you tell me their names and about how far apart they were born?
About two years difference in the ages. There were six, two boys and four girls.
What was the oldest one's name?
Brooksie.
Did he have a middle name?
Not that I know of. I don't think they used middle names.
The next one was a brother, George. And Sally Pharis. Nanny Pharis. Daisy Pharis. About two years apart.
Is that the way that would work in those days?
That's the way it would work.
You said your father and mother lived on a farm.
They moved off of the farm when the kids was old enough to work and moved to town.
The oldest one, his name was George…
Brooksie was the oldest. She was a girl.
She went to work first?
Yes, I believe. You could go to work when you got big enough to talk. I believe Brooksie and George and Sally and Nanny was old enough to go to work.
How old would they have been?
I'd say from fifteen down.
And the youngest one would have been nine?
Yeah. Right about how old it was.
Do you remember anything at all about that farming experience?
No, I was so small I can't remember too much about it. I can remember being on the farm and I can remember moving. My daddy raised tobacco, his central crop was tobacco. When we come to the town he still kept his team. He done hauling around for people and done truck farming after we moved to town. He done that on up until he was able to do anything.
He would have a few acres rented around?
No, he just rent the land. That's what he done after he come to town.
The truck farming would be different kinds of vegetables?
Yes, vegetables. Corn to feed his team on.
He never did work in the mill, then.
No, he never did work in the mill.
Did he talk about why they moved from the farm to town?
Because the kinds felt that all we had to do when we moved to town was to reach up and pull the money off of the trees. We come down and pull some off of it.
Worked for twenty-five cents a day when we started.
And that was eleven hours a day, too. I went to work after I got eight or nine years old, I worked for several years there for twenty-five cents a day, eleven hours a day.
When you all got paid, did you turn the money into your father?
Had to, it took it all to live.
How did that work?
They'd give each kid a little allowance.
Very little.
Your parents would?
They'd give us so much out of what we made.
Who in the family would have been the one that would have kept up with the things that had to do with keeping the money?
My mother, she looked after that. Weren't no money to look after much. The whole family wasn't making as much as one would make now.
Did people trade things or vegetables or crops or produce?
No. People lived on credit then. If you didn't have credit, you didn't live. I remember after I went to work, I'd buy me a pair of shoes or a suit of clothes or anything I bought, I'd buy it and pay a dollar a pay day, every two weeks. Until I got it paid.
Would there be a company store?
No, they had a company store. But it wasn't like a lot of company stores you read about. We had merchants we traded with.
And they would have general store kind of….
They had what you'd call a company store. But it didn't actually belong to the company, the textile company. It belonged to an individual but they called it the company store.
Do you remember the names of the store you would have bought your overalls from?
Rufus Ray was the name of the man that owned the company store.
Where would that one have been?
That was in Spray.
It's Eden now.
When you started to work, what do remember about that, the mill, working, life?
I don't remember too much individual things. I was about nine or ten years old when I got that hand hurt right there.
How did that happen?
I was riding on an elevator rope in the mill. Me and another boy was
getting the quills in the mill. He was on the bottom floor and I was on
the top floor. We'd go to the spinning room to empty our quills out. The
first one who would get up there would ride the elevator rope. He'd be
down on the bottom floor. We'd ride the elevator rope up to the pulley
and slide back down. I was riding one day and was looking round over the
spinning room and my hand got caught under the wheel. That thing was
mashed into jelly, all of it was just smashed all to pieces. They took
me out. It happened pretty much after lunch one day. It started up after
dinner, they gave forty-five minutes for dinner. They took me down to
the company store—the drug store was in the front end of the company
store—never even notified my people or nothing. Set me down in the front
of that company store. There were only two doctors in town at that time,
and both of them was out of town on country calls. I sat there until
about four o'clock. Nobody done nothing in the world for me. My people
was never notified. Nothing said about it. You tear yourself all to
pieces then, nothing
Those things happened a good deal?
Oh, yes, back in them days. Nothing never said about it then.
He could have sued them nowadays.
You couldn't do nothing. Poor people like us, no use in us suing.
They didn't have anything to sue for, actually.
No use in suing. Poor people didn't stand a chance. If a rich man wanted…. They had a system back in them days. One company owned all the mills was around there. They had agreements with one another. If they said not to hire you they wouldn't hire you. So, if you done anything—anything the company didn't like— they'd just fire you and tell the rest of them not to hire you. So, there you'd be. People who lived under them circumstances, back in them days, was nothing they could do. So they didn't try to do nothing.
Did they have a doctor the mill paid to handle you?
They did pay for the doctor to fix up my hand. We never did. Never did say nothing to us about it.
Would there be one particular doctor who would be on contract?
There were only two doctors in town. Either one of them was a company doctor.
Was one of them Dr. Sweeney?
Dr. Sweeney and Dr. Ray was the only two doctors available.
Would these sorts of accidents happen to one group more than another, or children more than grown-ups? Who would be most likely to have an accident in the mill?
So many little children working then, little bitty children. Naturally they had more accidents than the grown-ups would.
Did anybody ever complain?
Didn't have no complaints back in those days.
There was nobody that came around to check on that?
No. You done like they said do or you didn't do back in them days. If a man wanted to stay in town he had to do what they wanted do or he couldn't stay there.
You hear people talking now, they've found about these diseases that you get by breathing some of the dust and things like that.
Nothing ever said about that in my day.
There was plenty of dust.
There was plenty of tuberculosis back in them days, too.
Did they ever think that tuberculosis had to do with the mill?
No, never crossed their mind. They just had it, that's all.
What about your other brothers and sisters, did they have any kind of accidents like that?
No, not a one of them ever did have an accident. It was my fault. The
supervisors in the mill shouldn't have allowed it, and they
Did your brothers and sisters go on working in the mill?
They worked on in the mill until all of them married.
Some of them worked after they married. Take them two then to make a living, if you could call it a living.
People now, they don't know what it's all about.
Your brothers and sisters, or you, did you go to any kind of school at all?
I graduated from third grade with honors. I went to school two years and graduated the third grade. I made two grades in one year. I didn't go to school but two years but made three grades.
What about your brothers and sisters?
By a little better, they got a little better education than I did, but
not much. They had to work back in them days. I was the littlest, so
naturally I got to go to school a little. My daddy used to give me
twenty-five cents a week to go to school and not play hooky at all. Then
I'd play hooky and get the twenty-five cents too. I remember talking one
time about how miserable you'd be to play hooky. Me and another boy, a
friend of mine, was going to school one morning and passed a Methodist
church. We got even with the Methodist church and one of us said to the
other one "Let's play hooky and go up in that bell tower." Until after
school started, then we'd come down and go off somewhere. Some women
crossed the street seen us go up in there and they come over and take
the ladder down. So we were sitting up there in that dark bell tower and
had to stay up there from nine o'clock in the morning until two o'clock
in the evening before they
You all were married in 1911, is that right?
1911.
How did you all meet?
In the mill. And at old square dances.
That's all the recreation people had back in them days. Different neighbors would have dances at their homes. They'd invite their friends in.
If you wasn't in by nine o'clock you was disgraced. If you wasn't home by nine o'clock you was disgraced for life. If you wore a skirt above your ankles you was disgraced, so you had to wear long dresses.
When would these be, what nights?
On Saturday night.
During the holidays.
Just like she said about the association. A girl had a date with a boy. The way they dated back in them days—and everybody done practically the same thing because it was a habit with all of them—they'd date Wednesday night, Saturday night and Sunday evening. Sometimes they'd stay until nine-thirty on Saturday night, being the end of the week. You seen a boy visit a girl on Wednesday night. And they stayed at home, too. Nine o'clock, nine thirty was late bedtime. I've heard remarks made of neighbors, "You know that boy stayed up there last night to see that girl until nearly ten o'clock." That was awful, that was just terrible.
So you all met at one of these dances?
And church, we'd meet in church.
Would they have musicians?
Yes, they'd have fiddlers and banjo pickers. Fiddle and banjo was just about all the music that was popular back in them days.
Would you all know some of the musicians?
Oh, yes. Everybody knowed everybody else in a small town.
And he would be with me, you know. I was safe.
How would that work. Would they stand at the front of the room?
They would just get in the room. Houses was built bigger….
Rooms was larger. But they didn't have as many rooms. Maybe three.
Everything was company houses. Nobody owned their own home.
Did you all live in a company house?
Oh, yes.
Even though your father didn't work for the company.
He said the kids worked for the company. I remember we paid twenty-five cents a room a week for a house. Later years we lived in a four room house. They finally put in electric lights, then we paid five cents a drop for electricity a week.
A drop?
What they called a drop was a drop down from the ceiling. They called them drops then.
About when was that?
19….
1917. It was before the war of 1918.
Along about 1915.
Let's go back to you getting together. How long would you say you courted each other?
About a year.
What would that be, every Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday….
We sang in the choir together at the Christian church.
Still up in them days, short hair for a grown woman.
Called them flappers.
When did he do that?
Along about 1915.
No, later than that. You was disgraced if you had short hair.
Did you ask each other's parents about getting married?
No, we took that on ourself.
They didn't try to stop….
No, they didn't try to stop us.
What kind of a ceremony did you have. How did that work?
The minister married us in the house, in our home.
In my sister's home. I lived in my sister's home. My father and mother lived in the country on a farm.
Then right after that, did you move into a house or did you go live with one of your families?
We lived just part-time with his family and then we
Talking about prices then and now, I remember there was a fellow living
in this little three room house was leaving town. We bought everything
he had—a three room house right in front of the mill where we worked—we
give him thirty-five dollars for everything he had. A cookstove, bed,
dressers. Everything he had he sold to us for thirty-five dollars. Of
course I had to shake around right smart before I'd get thirty-five
dollars.
Going back to your brothers and sisters and their names, were they named after anybody in particular in the family?
No, I don't think so.
What about y'alls children, did you name them after anybody?
No.
I thought you named Daisy after….
No, Dr. Tuttle named Daisy after his wife. Wasn't anybody left. Everybody thought she was named for her aunt Daisy. Dr. Tuttle named her for his wife.
That's the doctor that delivered the baby?
That's right. All three of them.
Was that OK. with you that he named….
Oh, yeah.
How were you and your brothers and sisters delivered? Did you have a doctor come?
By ourselves.
I think we had a doctor there for one of our children.
Oh, yes, we did.
Of course, he didn't cost nothing much. He charged us—I never will forget it— $8.00 for the first one, $10.00 for the next two, and the next one he said he'd have to have $12.00. When he went up to twelve, I said just scratch me off of your list. You going up every time. There won't be no more.
You said you were a leader of a band in Spray for twenty years and that you all played in two or three different towns right around there Tell me about that.
We played for the fairs that come around for just about twenty years.
Did you play an instrument.
Yes, I played a trumpet.
How did you learn to play the trumpet?
We had an instructor the company furnished us in later years after World War I was over. They hired a man to come and teach. The whole town wanted to take part in music.
Where did he come from?
I never did know exactly where he did come from. He was a northerner, I know.
You did know where he come from. I thought it was New Jersey.
I never did know.
He then taught you how to play the trumpet?
He was the head man. We had what you'd call the North Spray Band. And I was the leader of that.
And the company paid for that?
The company paid him, and they helped us some and would do little favors for us, too. They was mighty nice to us back in them days. They could do a little something for you and you appreciated it so much. He stayed there for probably ten or fifteen years. They had a pretty good band when I left there.
What would you play?
Oh, anything. He got us to play. We'd give concerts, lots of concerts. We went out of town and played some paid concerts.
Did you learn how to read notes?
Oh, yes. I learned how to read music.
How big of a band was it?
We had a full band, I think it was thirty-five or forty. Then we had an orchestra in that band of about twelve, fifteen.
How many people were working in the mill at that time?
There's more people working per job then than there is now. They didn't work you too hard. You'd have spare time. What they call getting rest. People didn't have to work too hard, but they worked long hours.
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
Going back to the band for a minute, why did they decide to do that?
I don't know. They done that to boost the community morale, I guess, the community spirit.
Were people still having these dancing parties at the houses?
Parties on up until the later years, yes.
But the orchestra didn't play for no dances.
No, the orchestra, band wouldn't play for no dances. At picnics and stuff like that. Lawn parties used to be awful popular.
Would any of the people who played for dances in the houses play in the band?
No, they was two different kinds of musicians. The people who played for dances played by ear, and we'd play by music.
Would there be any other differences between those two kinds of musicians?
No, nothing more than one just played by ear and the other played by music.
They didn't have any teachers, the string musicians. Violins and banjos was all it was.
Did they play different songs?
The music back in them days was just like your country music is today. They never had no teachers, just self learnt, you know.
Just like them hillbillies in what do you call it, the Grand Ole Opry.
It's come into its own in later years, ain't it?
Did you like one kind of music more than the other kind?
No, I used to like band music better than any other kind of music. I didn't particularly care for string music.
I still like that old time picking.
I don't care too much about it.
I like to watch the Grand Ole Opry. And they were self taught, too.
You used to like it, though?
I used to like band music, I didn't….
But you went to those dances.
I'd just go to the dances to be around the girls.
You didn't dance?
I never did dance, a very little bit. I never did dance enough to learn.
I can see on TV exactly the way I used to dance. I mean I danced. I weighed ninety-eight pounds, and I could get around.
What kind of dancing would you call it?
Square dance. That started it.
Did people dance to the band music at all?
No. The orchestra music they'd play for dances sometimes. But not very much of it.
What about these lawn parties, what were they like?
They'd just have lawn parties, have ice cream, refreshments, lights up all around, outdoors you know. Invite a bunch of people in. The band played for several lawn parties, lawn parties of any size.
Who would give them?
Churches, mostly.
Aristocrats would give them. B. Frank Mebane and so and so.
And churches would give a lot of them, too.
Who would come?
Anybody who wanted to get out. That's all you had to do anyway.
Would you have to dress any special way?
No, you wouldn't have to dress up for that. Later on, long about '20 or '23 started this new dancing: Charleston and the Big Apple and that type of dancing. That just set the world on fire for several years there.
When we moved to Covington, Virginia my daughter and her girl friends was trying to learn it. They wasn't half doing it, and I went in one night and showed them and they like to fainted. They said, "Mama, I had no idea in the world you ever done that."
Where would you have done it originally? Would it be at those lawn parties?
Not at lawn parties.
We'd all get together…
At regular dance parties.
Let me ask you another question about the band. Did you ever go on the radio?
Yes, we played on radio not too many times. We played once in Salem and Greensboro. That was the only two that had stations in this part of the country. We played maybe a couple of times each on both of them.
Do you remember the names of the stations?
No I don't. Just Greensboro and Winston-Salem. As far as the numbers, I don't remember.
Would somebody sponsor you or they would invite you to come on?
They'd invite us to come on. We didn't get nothing for it.
When would that be, what day of the week?
No certain day. Whenever they had an opening they'd
Picnics, we'd play for picnics. And land sales.
Do you remember any of the tunes, any of the songs you played?
We played almost all of Sousa's marches. We played just about all the popular music that was coming out for bands back in those days. We would play overtures. The professor taught us all the fancy… These overtures would be very complicated to play and work on them all winter and come out in the spring. We studied the whole winter and come out. The only thing we wanted out of it was somebody's appreciation. We could play them pieces we worked all winter on so hard and get no applause at all and play a little old simple march or a little old simple piece of some kind that had a swing to it, and boy, they'd just go wild. I talked to the professor about it one time, why should we study trying to learn them complicated music when some we could pick it up and play it on sight anytime that they really liked. And that type of music is like today, that country music, got a swing to it, got a beat. That's what the people liked about it.
And he wanted to teach you all some of these others?
He wanted to teach us this classical stuff. None of us cared too much about it.
What did he ever say when you asked him about it?
He said that was the coming music. The only thing it was is to learn
that. People would appreciate it in later years. Back in those days I
would venture to say ninety percent of the people was uneducated. Nobody
went to high school except the upper class, somebody that didn't
associate with the other fellows and we didn't associate with them. In
later years the working people got into going to high school. My kids,
they all finished grade school. I got one working in the bank now. One
of my daughters works
Did you all have uniforms in this band?
Oh yeah, man, we had classy uniforms.
Would the company help pay for the uniforms?
Yeah, they at least made a great donation towards it. The biggest part they paid for. They furnished the big instruments, the expensive instruments.
What were the instruments you all would have in your band?
Well, we'd have a tuba, and a baritone, alto, trombone, cornets, trumpets, drums. We had just about a complete assembly.
Did the uniforms have anything written on them?
No, they just had braids and all that junk.
Did you ever use them in a parade?
Oh, yes sir. We took a big pride in that.
When would there be parades?
Sometimes on the fourth of July, some kind of a special something that the company would want to put on. I remember one time we was parading from Spray to Lynchville, and we got down to a forks of a road. and they made a moving picture. They've got it somewhere now. I'd hate to see it. I was playing trumpet that day. I took the wrong road, and the band went that-a-way and I….
Well, if you hadn't had a nip….
Another thing you mentioned when you talked about Alamance County, you told the story about the reputation in Alamance County for rooster fighting.
Alamance County used to be known for rooster fighting. I wasn't living
there then. I'll tell you the truth, I always hated
The company sent you here.
Yeah, they sent me here, but why didn't I leave when I got through?
I remember very distinctly. I had a car and I brought a bunch of fellows one Sunday. We was talking about Alamance County when we was coming down this very road here. At that time there was a high bank out between here and the road, but there was a pretty level lot back in behind. I told them, I says "I wouldn't want to never live in Alamance County, but if I ever did live here I'd want me a home right there, right here where I got this house." And that was twenty years before I ever got it. I built the house.
We spent two years in South America.
Did you ever go to any of these rooster fights?
No, one. I don't think I ever went to but one.
What was it like?
Very exciting, it's too brutal.
We used to tell them up home it was a regular little Chicago. It was bad at the time.
Would they have the rooster fight here in town?
No, sir. Somewhere out in the country. The biggest portion of them. That's where I got on to them. For so many people in Alamance County used to be the chicken fighting place was in Henry County, which is the otherside of Rockingham county. People from Burlington and Alamance County would come through Spray going to the chicken fights up in what they called Aiken Summit, up around Axton, Virginia. That's where the biggest part of the fighting was done, but the fighters was all from down in here.
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
[START OF TAPE 2, SIDE A]
We can go back and start with your grandparents and see what
That was near Martinsville, Virginia.
And you were born in 1892, May the ninth.
That's right.
Do you remember the names of your grandparents?
Jackson Wilson and grandmother Rhody Wilson, that was my mother's parents. I don't remember much about my father's parents.
What would have been their names?
Meeks. He was Meeks. Honestly I don't know them. Was my father's name.
What kind of work did your grandparents do?
My grandfather, Jackson Wilson, was a bootlegger.
Up in Virginia?
Yes, he made his own, though, down on a creek bank.
He wasn't a bootlegger, that was a moonshiner.
That's right, that's what you'd call it. And he made good money. He was kind of cruel, but my grandmother Rhody had the sweetest disposition. That is my mother's father. And my father married twice. He married my mother's sister, Jenny. She died. They was twins, Jenny and Julie. Then he married her twin, Julie, that was my mother. There was thirteen children.
We could stop a minute at your grandfather, the moonshiner, and talk about him. Do you remember anything much?
I don't remember too much about it. My grandmother didn't approve of it
at all. So he stayed away from home most of the time. He had a kind of
tent down on this stream of water where he had a still.
Did he do anything else?
Not that I know of. A little farming occasionally.
He did this for several years?
Oh, yes, long as I can remember.
Who would be his customers?
Well, just the farmers surrounding him.
How would he sell?
They wasn't any law. He could sell it any way he wanted to. Everybody wanted it just went and got it. I don't know what the price was or nothing. But he'd make brandy, peach brandy, apple brandy. People were just crazy about it.
Did he make any whisky?
Oh, yes. White Lightning they called it.
Out of corn?
Yes, that's right.
And your grandmother, she didn't approve of it?
No.
Did they ever argue about this?
No. My grandmother was an even tempered person. She didn't like it at all but she didn't argue about it. She just let him have his way.
Did you ever hear any stories about where your family might have come from way on further back?
They was born and raised in this country up about in Virginia. I believe it was around Ridgeway, Virginia. My grandfather owned a big farm. A lot of land. I still have some ancestors up in there. The Wilsons. Most of them was bootleggers.
Back in them days, where you was born, generally that's where you died. You didn't move around much in them days.
When did he stop moonshining?
When he died.
When did he die?
I couldn't tell you, good grief, I can remember it very well. I guess I was ten or eleven years old.
He had an awful disposition. My grandmother was such a sweet and even tempered person. We'll always remember her.
Do you remember the funeral, or when your grandfather died?
No, not anything about that at all.
How many children did they have? You can say their names, if you want to.
David, Hubert… I can't remember the others. They was all kind of roustabouts.
Your father's name was then Hughes Meeks. And he married Jenny Wilson. Then what happened to her.
She died in childbirth. And then in about a year he married my mother. They were twins, you know, Jenny and Julie.
Jenny lived about a year after they were married.
That's right.
How would you reckon that folks would get to meet each other, see each other if they were young, that age, and courting?
How long was it after your father and mother married that they had their first child?
I think it was about a couple of years?
And who would that have been, who was the first one?
The first child, Jeff Meeks. The second Elizabeth. About two years apart. Thirteen children.
You say three of them died….
In infancy.
What are the stories about those three?
One of them lived just over three days. Another one was kind of retarded, it lived about three years. And the oldest one died with dysentery, I think. I remember the two smallest ones, but I don't remember the one that died with the dysentery.
How were you in this group of ten, thirteen children? Where did you come?
I was just about the middle one. I only have two brothers that are living. One in Reedsburg, Wisconsin and one in That's all the three left out of the ten.
Did your mother have a doctor present?
Very seldom. Not unless it was very serious. It was about five miles, maybe a longer distance than that, to get a doctor. It would be too late, you know. She had a midwife with most of us.
Was it the same midwife everytime?
Yes, I do. Aunt Ivy Hosten. These two colored people. Aunt Ivy was the midwife, she lived close by.
Could you tell me any more about her? When would somebody get her to come?
Well, in the family, my father mostly would go out.
And she would come to the house….
And stay maybe three or four days. There was a lot of that in those days. The doctor was a good distance away and it would be impossible to get him before the baby.
And this woman delivered a lot of babies?
She did, surrounding where we lived.
You say her sister was a midwife, too?
Yes, there was two of them. I forget her name, though.
Would you pay them anything?
Not anything, unless you'd give them some vegetables, fresh meat or something like that. Probably they did pay them with some money. I don't remember that much about it.
Is that how you were delivered too?
I guess so. Yes, most of us were.
Do you remember being present when any of that was going on?
They'd take us away from home. Them old colored women come and get us and take us to their house.
How long would you stay at their house?
Until everything was over with. Then they'd take us back. Then they'd spend three or four days with us.
But you knew what was going on then?
I don't think so. We didn't learn much about that in those days.
They just left till the stork comes. The stork brought them.
Yes, that's the truth.
Would they say something like that when they took you away?
They'd take us to their homes and tell us to stay there until they come back for us. Then they'd come and get us and take us after everything was over with. And they'd remain with us probably a week or maybe more, until my mother got on her feet again. Think about giving birth to thirteen children. A pretty rugged life.
Did she start back into work pretty soon after that?
Yes, she'd commence doing her housework and maybe working in the garden near the house. My mother was awful smart, I thought.
What kind of other things would she do? Did she sew a lot?
She did a lot of sewing and making comforters. They called them quilts those days. She stayed busy most of the time. She was always awful clean, kept the house so clean. I don't see how she done it, but she did.
What was your father working at?
He farmed. He raised vegetables, sowing tobacco and different things. Peas and beans, the carrots through the winter. Have a lot of pork, kill pigs, calves, and fix up for the winter. We had a pretty good life, considering.
Did he have a cash crop?
Sometimes he was just a tenant farmer. Several years
Do you remember moving from one farm to another?
Yes, I do. We didn't have very much to carry.
You had a lot of helpers to carry.
Yes we did. Good neighbors then, more true than they are nowadays. The neighbors stood by you.
Do you remember moving more than one time?
I think I remember moving twice. I know I remember moving from the country to, they call it Eden now, it was Leaksville - Spray then. My father didn't like it at all. And he went back to the country.
Why?
Well, he went back home and he farmed again until he died.
Do you know why he didn't like the town?
Well he just didn't like the noise and he just didn't like the city, if you could call it a city.
Did he get him another job?
No, he didn't work.
Where did you go to work?
At the old Spray Cotton Mill. Twenty-five cents a day. Twenty-five cents then went almost as far as a dollar nowadays.
Were you the first of the children to go to work?
No, I had some older sisters who worked.
Where did they go to work, where did they start?
They started just about where I did.
At the cotton mill?
Yes, then we went to work, they called it the Rhode Island Mill. They built that then. We all worked there. That's where me and him worked when we married.
When you were nine years old and beginning to work, how did you start?
The spinning room, I spun the yarn that made cloth in the shuttles.
Did someone teach you how to do that?
Oh, yes. I remember her very well. Her name was Hattie McBride. I remember her teaching me. She always spoke well, she'd tell me I was smart, easy to learn. When payday come we was so happy. Get three dollars every two weeks.
Which day would payday come on?
On a Saturday.
Would you finish in the middle of the day on Saturday?
A lot of times we'd work until four o'clock. Work twelve hours during the week, that's right. Or was it ten. Twelve hours. I think it was ten hours on Saturday.
Did you get paid as soon as you went into the mill, or did you have to stay there and learn how to do your job before they began paying you?
I don't think they paid us anything to learn. But after we learnt, we got a job, a machine of our own.
How long would it take somebody to learn?
Not very long. It didn't me, at least.
How long would that be?
I reckon in about three weeks I'd be able to get on my own on a machine by myself.
Were there lots of other children working at this mill?
Yes, plenty of them. They was glad to get them. They would come to our home, because there was so many of us. They needed help, hands in the mill. That's how we started. They got our father to move into town and we all went to work. I think I run the first spinning machine in the Rhode Island Mill was ever started up. Work on one side and go on to another.
The mill was built in 1905?
I run the first spinning machine there that was ever started up. They made blankets there and we'd spin the yarn that made the blankets. Each one that started up, I got to about six machines, and that's as far as I went.
So all of your family went to work in….
We did, every one of us. We thought we was rich.
Your father was growing vegetables?
That's right, he was. Raising pork and things like that.
Did he sell any of that to anyone else?
Oh yes, you could go on the street and sell such as that in those days. But you can't do it now.
You mean he would put some things in a wagon and….
That's right. A box, or anything, and sell it on the street.
You bought your fresh meat off a wagon.
You did, and it was good, too. But they've passed a law
What sorts of things would your father sell?
Well, he'd sell all kind of vegetables and fryers and eggs and butter and milk and everything. It was good, too. It isn't like it is nowadays.
Would he have one particular day he'd do that?
No, not no certain days. Maybe Wednesday and Friday, something like that. So the folks would have the stuff for the weekend.
The neighbors would join one another and help each other, butcher the pigs. They'd help each other, it wouldn't cost either one of them anything. So they'd pack it up on the wagons and help them. If the neighbors needed the same thing done, they'd do the same thing with them.
Where would he take it to sell?
Bring it on in town, in the street. They called it Spray then, they call it Eden now.
Who would be the people who would buy from him?
Everybody, be glad to get it. Sometimes they'd gauge it so much for each weekend, and they wouldn't have any trouble selling it. Then we'd have plenty at home.
Lots of people in the town didn't grow their own?
No, they in the town. It wasn't allowed. Big pens, nothing like that wasn't allowed.
Was he selling these things to people working in the mill?
That's right. They were glad to get it. All of their meats then were corn fed. They raised their own feed. A whole lot better than it tastes nowadays.
And by living out of town a bit he could have a farm?
We had a farm. That was the last that we owned.
When you were working in the mill, you said he moved into town for a little bit and then went back out.
He went back but we didn't. It was close enough. Me and my mother used to walk to work, five miles each day, believe it or not. We made it fine,