[TAPE 1, SIDE A]

[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]

PATTY DILLEY:

I really had a good visit with your brother.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, boy. As old as he is, he can really tell you, remember a lot.

PATTY DILLEY:

He was pretty good.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you didn't know your grandparents.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did you know what they did or anything about them?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, I don't know that.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you all first lived here in Conover.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That's right.

PATTY DILLEY:

And that's where you were born.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

And my people lived here their whole entire life.

PATTY DILLEY:

What was the first house you lived in?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Right across the railroad right over here. And then we lived up there… You know where this first bridge is, at Interstate 40? Well, we lived right there in that vale of it, in that field there, tore that house down.

PATTY DILLEY:

And so your parents were from here.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

When you were a child, did you just have your brothers and sisters living with you in the house, or did you have other people?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No.

PATTY DILLEY:

No cousins or aunts or anything?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did a lot of your relatives live nearby?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes. They all lived right in this area. I did have an aunt live in Knoxville.

PATTY DILLEY:

But most of the other ones lived right around here?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

All of the brothers and everything lived… Had five brothers, and they all lived in this area.

PATTY DILLEY:

These are your parents' brothers, or your brothers?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

My brothers. And then my mother had one brother lived here.

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you see your relatives a lot? Do you all have anything like family reunions?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes. I have them here in the yard.

PATTY DILLEY:

What-all kinds of things do you all do?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Everybody brings a basket, and we have dinner. And our minister and his wife, they come, too. We have one about every year.

PATTY DILLEY:

That's neat. We have one of those, too.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

And my brother's kids from Washington, they come.

PATTY DILLEY:

This is Hill's children?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That's right.

PATTY DILLEY:

He has quite a few up there.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Mmmm-hm!

PATTY DILLEY:

Did any of your children ever move up there with them? Or you didn't have children.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No.

PATTY DILLEY:

You never left the county or anything to work before.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Where did you leave?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I was in Kentucky, and I was in Georgia, and I was in South Carolina.

PATTY DILLEY:

You moved around quite a bit. When did you leave home to go to these places? Do you remember how old you were?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

The first time, when I went to Asheville, I was around eighteen.

PATTY DILLEY:

And so you left from Asheville to go to the other places?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, I was on the railroad then. And then I got on the horseshow circuit. I was on the horseshow circuit for about ten or eleven years. Now that's when I went in Kentucky, Tennessee, and around.

PATTY DILLEY:

What kind of work did you do with the horseshows?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Groom.

PATTY DILLEY:

Groomed horses?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you first left home to work on the railroad.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

And what kind of job did you do on the railroad?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Repaired the bridges, trestles and things on railroads.

PATTY DILLEY:

You're the youngest in the family. Was your brother Hill working on the railroads at the same time?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No. He used to work on the railroad. That was before I did. He used to be a fireman on the railroad.

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes, that's what he had said. How did you get your job working at the railroad? Did you know somebody there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Who did you know there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That recommended me? Arthur Lawrence and Fred Small and Mac Sigmon.

PATTY DILLEY:

So they were friends of yours?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

When you started working for the horseshows, how did you get that job?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Through Mr. Schultz, W. [[unknown]] Schultz.

PATTY DILLEY:

Was he a friend also?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. He's dead now, but his wife still is a friend. I'm supposed to go up to her home in Blowing Rock now most any weekend.

PATTY DILLEY:

So she lives in Blowing Rock.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

In the summertime.

PATTY DILLEY:

You went to school here?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

How far did you finish?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I finished school here, but I didn't go to college.

PATTY DILLEY:

Where was the school here? Was it a black school?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

There was one right there. 1 * He points across the street. Then there was one right over there where the playground is on the other street going down that way.

PATTY DILLEY:

And they burned down?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

They tore this one down. That one over there burned down now, up over on the other side.

PATTY DILLEY:

Why did they tear this one down? Did everybody start going to the big school?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Now wait. They didn't tear it down. This church that bought it tore it down and built that church over there. They bought that old school and that church, and then when they built that church over there they tore this one down.

PATTY DILLEY:

Is this the church you go to, across the street?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, I go to that one down there, the first one.

PATTY DILLEY:

Is that AME Zion?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. This is the Holiness Church here.

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you still go to this church Sunday?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes. I'm the preacher's steward down there.

PATTY DILLEY:

Oh, are you? I know the organist that used to play there sometimes, Moses Singleton?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

He plays at our church a lot.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, I know him well. I see him every summer.

PATTY DILLEY:

Your family, when you all were growing up, you all all went to that church?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

And was your wife from the same church?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, she went over there, too.

PATTY DILLEY:

How did you meet her?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I met her at the… I first saw her at the camp meeting down at Sherrills [Ford], Terrell. Then they moved here. And she used to work for the Barkers. Miss Lula Brady [she] was first, and then she married this Barker.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did she do housework?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

When you were a child and you all were growing up, did you have any particular responsibilities around the house?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Not much, only to get the wood in and stuff like that. [Laughter] That was my job.

PATTY DILLEY:

Who was the first one in your family to leave home, to move out of the house when you were growing up?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That I can remember of, you mean?

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I would have to say Hill, I guess, and then Bax, and then Frank.

PATTY DILLEY:

How many brothers did you have?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Four.

PATTY DILLEY:

And did you have any sisters?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No.

PATTY DILLEY:

They're all dead now?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

And you and Hill are the only ones left.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. And they all were settled right through here.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you left home when you were eighteen.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

And your first job was at the railroad.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

How long did you work there at the railroad?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

About a year and a half.

PATTY DILLEY:

And then you started working for the horse circuit?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. And then in the furniture business.

PATTY DILLEY:

How long did you work in the horse circuit?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Nine years.

PATTY DILLEY:

What was the first furniture plant you worked at?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

The first one I give you, down there where Broyhill has now.

PATTY DILLEY:

Conover Furniture.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you knew quite a few people that worked there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Your brother worked there, I guess.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

About all my brothers have worked there.

PATTY DILLEY:

What kind of job did you do there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I run a… You use them in a cotton mill; they call it a… I believe they called it a spool driver. It was about that long and had a little round head on the top, but they used them for mills, to put the thread on.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you made those?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. You make that, and then you make the head on another machine, and then you take that and glue that head on there. Some of them would be that long, some that long.

PATTY DILLEY:

I'll probably talk to you more about that. Right now I'm just going to go over and do some real general stuff. How long did you work at Conover Furniture?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Off and on, I imagine eight or ten years. Ten years, I know of.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did you go to other jobs and then come back?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I did one time. But the last time it was changed hands. Mr. Brady used to own it the first time. And then he sold it out, and then that's why, when I come back. At that time, that was just about the only place to work.

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes. Early on. So you left Conover Furniture and came back when it was Broyhill.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did Mr. Brady lay off a lot of people when he started getting in financial trouble? Why did you leave?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

You could make just a little more money than you could other places. Now they paid, but it wasn't as much as you could make somewhere else.

PATTY DILLEY:

Where did you go?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I'm not sure about that, but I believe I went in the hosiery mill business at that time. I was a shipping clerk in the hosiery mill.

PATTY DILLEY:

Which hosiery mill was it?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Down at Newton Knitting Mill, down there by Hickory, both of which… Fairview and Whisnant Hosiery.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you did the same thing, shipping clerk?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, same thing. I did the same thing at all the mills.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you came back to Broyhill. How long did you work for Broyhill there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

The last time? Not too long. A year or maybe two years.

PATTY DILLEY:

You left to go somewhere else?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Where did you go to?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

At that time we run that cafe out here on the corner. And that's where I was the last time.

PATTY DILLEY:

One of your brothers?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, just my wife and myself.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you left Broyhill because you could make more money up here at the cafe.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Right.

PATTY DILLEY:

Why did you stop working there, running the cafe?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

My wife got sick, and I just couldn't handle it by myself. And it wasn't enough work there through the day for me to stop working and try to pay for it, and so I worked and tried to make the monthly payments on it. And she got to the place where she just couldn't handle it, and I just had to do something about it, either close it up or sell it. So I wound up selling it.

PATTY DILLEY:

And where were you working when you were trying to …

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I was in the horse business.

PATTY DILLEY:

What did you do?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Grooming.

PATTY DILLEY:

I'm trying to get all the different things you did. What did you do after you finished doing the horses?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I come back down here to a hosiery mill there where Horace Isenhour used to run, right this side of Ridgeview, right there at the ice plant. I was a shipping clerk.

PATTY DILLEY:

And what after that?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

It seemed like he went under there. And we moved down here to Mr. Yount's mill. No, we worked there under receivership for a while, down at Newton Knitting Mill, until they finally sold it. And that's when we went down to Smith's Finishing Hosiery Mill, down there on the Startown Road. And we did finishing work there for him out of the mill at Hickory, and that's when I went back to Hickory to that mill then. After he built more over there, I went back to Hickory.

PATTY DILLEY:

When did you start working for Trendline Furniture?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Right after that. It wasn't too long.

PATTY DILLEY:

And what kind of things did you do for Trendline?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I run a shaper.

PATTY DILLEY:

What's a shaper?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That's where you make round like this. 2 * His hand imitates the motion of a "wave." Shape things, you know, to make it fancy.

PATTY DILLEY:

Where is Trendline?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Right down over there. 3 ** Trendline's factory is situated within the black community.

PATTY DILLEY:

That's real close. You could about walk from around here.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I did sometimes. You could go right around this road before they put a fence around it, and you'd come right into the plant. But now it's a little complicated, since they put that fence up. You have to come around the road anyway.

PATTY DILLEY:

Hard to climb up on. [Laughter]

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Somebody put a ladder out there, and they took that ladder away. [Laughter]

PATTY DILLEY:

They thought they were going to get it a little easier. How long did you work there at Trendline?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Twelve years.

PATTY DILLEY:

Where did you go after that?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

After Trendline I didn't especially go anywhere much, only just I stayed here with my wife when she was sick.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you were kind of semi-retired then?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. They fixed it so I could wait on her. That's about the leading place that I worked, really.

PATTY DILLEY:

You work up at the Sheraton now. When did you start that job?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

A year ago at April.

PATTY DILLEY:

What do you do up there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Bellhop.

PATTY DILLEY:

So in between working at Trendline and taking care of your wife and then going to the Sheraton, did you do any other kind of jobs?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No.

PATTY DILLEY:

I think that pretty well covers all that. Did Trendline give you some kind of a pension?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, I draw it; I do now.

PATTY DILLEY:

You draw the pension.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

You get a monthly check, but that comes from… They had insurance with Meade Corporation in Chicago, and mine was paid up, so they don't pay that. They had already had that paid up. So I get that from Meade's out at Chicago. In other words, it don't come through Trendline, because it's already in there.

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you ever remember, in all the different places you worked (but I guess particularly the furniture industry), any union people coming in or [unknown]?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes, they tried about every year. But they'd get defeated.

PATTY DILLEY:

What period was this in?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

They tried it at Trendline, but they got defeated.

PATTY DILLEY:

Every time they tried?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Every time they would try it, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

What did the people at the plant think about unions?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

It would be more against it than there were for it, much more.

PATTY DILLEY:

So did they have people that came in from the outside?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes. Them's the ones that would do it.

PATTY DILLEY:

The union organizers.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, right.

PATTY DILLEY:

Were they from up North, or were they from the South?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I imagine they were.

PATTY DILLEY:

Was there any violence over there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No. It just went over smoothly. If you didn't know it was going on, you wouldn't even know it. You see, they had boxes up, and it had just a little hole in there, and you could mark your ballot and put it in that box. And it had a lock on it. And then that evening, they'd come down from the office and open it and take them up there and count them. So you didn't know how I voted, and I didn't know how you voted, unless you'd tell. [Laughter]

PATTY DILLEY:

Did you vote for the union?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, I didn't.

PATTY DILLEY:

Why did the people in the unions want to move the union in?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

They just try to fight you, but the trend over there was, they have just about as good a benefits as you would have got out of the union anyway. And so there wasn't no need to fool with it.

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you think Trendline was better in benefits than some of the other furniture plants around, or were they about the same?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Some of them other plants didn't have all that like you've got it now. It's more modern now. And I would say they was the best one, yes. All these later years, why, the later it's got, the better these benefits are now. Now most of them has it now.

PATTY DILLEY:

But Trendline was one of the first ones.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did Conover Furniture? The Broyhill plant didn't have any?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

They didn't have it then, no. Not then.

PATTY DILLEY:

I was wondering, because your brother said he didn't get any kind of a pension or anything from the company.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, they didn't have it then.

PATTY DILLEY:

But probably by then they had it at Trendline.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That came in under President Kennedy's administration, I think. That's when it got a little stronger. But they were well equipped over here, as far as that benefits go.

PATTY DILLEY:

Why do you think your brother kept working? He worked so long for Conover Furniture. Why do you think he kept working that long when he might have been able to make more other places?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

He had a big family, and he was at home, the only thing I can figure it out. And he just didn't want to venture out anymore.

PATTY DILLEY:

I guess so. It was a security job.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

And he was good on it. He could go in there and fire that boiler, and it wouldn't half be as hard as… But you go in there, it would just work the stew out of you. But he just knew what to do. And I know he was underpaid. In a job like that now, why, he'd double the price that he was getting then.

PATTY DILLEY:

You were in a much better position to shop around for a job than he was.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes, I wasn't tied up like he was. He had a big family. He had to work somewhere.

PATTY DILLEY:

It's hard for me, because I'm a young person today. And young people are getting a job and quitting in the next month, and it's hard to imagine people working that long.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. And as of now, young people go to a place now, and if it's…We witnessed that over here. Say we'd hire you. Some of them… And have a break at nine o'clock. Nine and two, you'd have a ten-minute break. And I've noticed a lot of times a lot of them wouldn't even come back. Just keep going. That happens now. That happens every day.

PATTY DILLEY:

When did that first start happening, that there was a big turnover?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

When this fast pace got in here. And then they got this welfare business, drawing and all that stuff. And some of them, they just never did. They just wouldn't work if it wasn't something that

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Page 15

they wanted to do. Everybody wants to pick their job, you know. They don't want to do a certain set of things. And some of them's a little harder than others, you know. If it was pretty hard, they'd keep going. They wouldn't come back.

PATTY DILLEY:

I was wondering if that's why that happened, if there were just a lot of different opportunities to make money and different ways to make money, and people weren't sticking to jobs.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Some of them are just a little harder than others. And then this giveaway thing started in. It just ruined people. They didn't have to work.

PATTY DILLEY:

Where were you working when the big Depression came, back in the late twenties and the early thirties?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Down here at the Bradys'.

PATTY DILLEY:

What happened to the plant during the Depression? Did the people keep working there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Some, yes. And some would maneuver around this place trying to find something else.

PATTY DILLEY:

So the plant wasn't in full production during that time.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

It was running.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did the wages go down any?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

They never was up.

PATTY DILLEY:

Were you working there at the plant?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Some off and on.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you remember any time when the plant there ever closed down?

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Page 16

Did they ever close down while you were working there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Just altogether?

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, it would run, but what they did, they wouldn't work on Saturdays a lot of times. A lot of times you had to work on Saturdays. In other words, they tried to fix it so they could lap it out so that they could work a week. But they cut out the Saturday work and all that.

PATTY DILLEY:

So there was always some kind of work during the Depression that you all …

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

You all never had to go on any kind of relief or anything.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did a lot of people around here have to?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, there was.

PATTY DILLEY:

During the Depression, what kind of places were the ones that went out of business?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I just can't remember the places, but there was a lot of it wasn't working. And in that ration business you couldn't get but just so much stuff out of the store at a time.

PATTY DILLEY:

Were there a lot of the cotton mills closed down?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I don't recall whether they all closed down, but I think they cut down on their hours and tried to spread it out.

PATTY DILLEY:

So people weren't able to work as much.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Were you working at Conover Furniture when the Broyhills took over?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

So the plant kept on in production the whole time.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Broyhill is the one that's bought it out. In other words, to where I'd say it was safe. It's grown.

PATTY DILLEY:

It sure is growing now, too. They're adding a big section to the place.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, and you should go up to Lenoir and see them.

PATTY DILLEY:

I have. I've driven by that.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Have you been by the Furniture Mart showroom?

PATTY DILLEY:

Not in Lenoir.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Is that on the road going to Blowing Rock?

PATTY DILLEY:

Oh, that big huge building? Yes.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. Have you been in it?

PATTY DILLEY:

I haven't been in it.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Well, you should go in it.

PATTY DILLEY:

Have you been in it?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. Oh.

PATTY DILLEY:

I bet it's something.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes. With this, they'd let you go through there. You'd enjoy that.

PATTY DILLEY:

This is the first time I had done it. I drove by the plants, and you couldn't take it all in one look. You'd go like that.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Ohhhh, yes!

PATTY DILLEY:

It was just huge.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

The next time you go in here, you go in. It's open around the clock, the Furniture Mart. You'd really enjoy that.

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Page 18

About everything they make at every one of their plants are in there.

PATTY DILLEY:

When Broyhill took over, did they bring in higher wages?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

It gradually got …

PATTY DILLEY:

It gradually got higher.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. And they brought in new styles and new furniture. Started making different stuff than what it was making. That was a kind of a cheap line that they run, and they stepped it up.

PATTY DILLEY:

What kind of benefits did Broyhill bring in besides the gradual rise in wages?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

When I was there, that wasn't yet in existence. But it is now. But how they brought it in, I wasn't there then. I just don't know how they did it, but it's there now. Now you take the Fourth of July coming up here, Lord, the money they're going to give away: the bonus, and then the week of pay, you know, the week off of the Fourth. You get paid for that week, and then your bonus.

PATTY DILLEY:

That's pretty good.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you think people were happy when Broyhill took it over?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I would think so. Oh, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

What opinion do you have of Mr. Broyhill as compared to Mr. Brady as an employer? Which one would you rather work for?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, Broyhill. He couldn't touch him. 4 * Brady

PATTY DILLEY:

Why is that?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Well, the Broyhill was more known and they had better salesmen, and he had better spots to put his stuff in. Oh, yes, much; twice.

PATTY DILLEY:

I want to go back to your parents now. Did both of your parents work outside the home, or just your father?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Just the father.

PATTY DILLEY:

And he worked up here at Hickory Handle.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. That was Brady's then, you know.

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes. What did he do at Hickory Handle?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

He run a cut-off saw. He'd trim pieces of wood about that long to make hammer handles and stuff like that. Then they made mattock handles. And that was his job, to trim them. He run the trim saw.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did they make something called picker sticks there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

What were those?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That's a big long, about that long. That went to a cotton mill, too.

PATTY DILLEY:

What did they do with those?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

They put them on their machines somehow or other. I don't know now just how that worked. But they was used on those machines in the cotton mill. All that were cotton mill work. And the stuff that I was telling you, that was cotton mill work. I mean stuff that go to cotton. At that time, that's about all they made.

PATTY DILLEY:

When you worked on the dairy farm, was this this Mr. Hunsucker's farm?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, this was Herman's, Hickory Grove Farms.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did other of your brothers or relatives work for this man?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, my brother Bax did a while.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you never worked at Hunsucker's Farm.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No.

PATTY DILLEY:

The one that owned Hickory Handle also. Did you ever hear about that? Your brother Hill told me that Mr. Hunsucker owned Hickory Handle before Brady owned it.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, that was way back, Jonas Hunsucker.

PATTY DILLEY:

You never worked out on that farm.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No. My daddy did. But all I know about that is just hearing him talk about it.

PATTY DILLEY:

What did you do out on the dairy farms?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I worked on the farm and helped in the dairy barn every morning and evening.

PATTY DILLEY:

So this was the first job you ever had?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Just about, that I learned how to work on.

PATTY DILLEY:

How old were you?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Not over twelve. I was young enough that I was scared it would get dark, scared to come home at night. [Laughter] I can remember that.

PATTY DILLEY:

This is a silly question, but do you think you were closer to your father or your mother? Which one do you think you took after?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

About everybody say I took after my father.

PATTY DILLEY:

Why do they say that?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I just got ways like him, I guess. That's what everybody tells me.

PATTY DILLEY:

What kind of man was your father?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

He was a friendly Indian. Everybody liked to meet him. He was a big talker, and everybody enjoyed that.

PATTY DILLEY:

[Laughter] The people must think you're a big talker, too, I guess.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes [Laughter] , I'm afraid they do.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did anyone in your family ever fight in any of the big wars like World War I or World War II?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

My oldest brother got killed in the Army, Les.

PATTY DILLEY:

And was that World War I or II?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

It must have been World War I. That was way back there.

PATTY DILLEY:

Was he in the infantry?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I don't remember what he was in.

PATTY DILLEY:

How about any of your nephews? Did they ever go into the Korean War?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, one of Hill's boys. It seemed like two of his boys. I'm not sure about two, but I know one of them was.

PATTY DILLEY:

I think he said two. I'm not sure.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I know the one in Washington was in the Army, and it seemed like his baby boy was in the Army, too.

[TAPE 1, SIDE B]

[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]

PATTY DILLEY:

I wanted to ask you some questions about Conover in general.

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I've lived here quite a while, but …

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Do you live here in Conover?

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes. I live over behind Mackie's Motel.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Who are you close to?

PATTY DILLEY:

There's some Hurleys that live out there.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Do you know the Spencers that live right there on the corner as you turn in there by the motel office?

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes. I don't know them personally, but I know of them, like when I was a little kid running around.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

We rabbit hunt together; we used to.

PATTY DILLEY:

It's hard to see changes in a community. How do you think Conover's changed over the years?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, wonderful.

PATTY DILLEY:

You think it's great?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. I do.

PATTY DILLEY:

It's gotten a lot bigger?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I think so.

PATTY DILLEY:

What kind of good things have happened to this area?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

They've improved the roads and things down here, and it looks like they try to do everything they can afford to do. 5 * in the black community And as far as the town as a whole, I think they's doing wonderful. That's the way I feel about it. Of course, everybody don't have the same idea about it. But still you don't know it all. Maybe there's some sides of the town that they've omitted doing work. I don't know about that. But it's usually that way in all towns; you don't get

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them all pleased.

PATTY DILLEY:

How do you think this community around here has changed over the last twenty years or so, like the good roads? Do you see a change in any of the people?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Some I do, and then, like we was talking a while ago, and some of them I don't. And it's the younger group that try to get something for nothing. You see more of that now everywhere.

PATTY DILLEY:

Why do you think people think that way now?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

They've just got everything handed to them mostly on a silver platter, and they just don't care is the only way I can work it out. And they don't want to work. That's just the way I feel about it.

PATTY DILLEY:

Has this community gotten bigger over the years?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Are there a lot of people that move out, or do most of them just stay around?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

It would be more coming in here if they had a place for them to come. We've got a new settlement right over there, and it's full. You can go right that road there and turn and go on down that way and go out, and they just completed here a couple of weeks ago hard-surfacing the road out there.

PATTY DILLEY:

Are those brick houses single dwellings?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Some of them has panel stuff on, and then they are bricked up. And there are some nice homes out there.

PATTY DILLEY:

I was out there with a friend of mine that worked on construction one year, and we went out there rock-hunting one time.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

The Hedrick boy?

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

His daddy's the one that built them.

PATTY DILLEY:

I bet so. I went with Don or Ken, one of those. They found a place where they could find these real shiny rocks, so we were out there looking around. And I knew it was out here, but it was about four or five years ago, and I hadn't been out here since then. How about the schools around here? How do you think the schools have changed?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I guess the way it is, it's for the better. Like I said a while ago, some will like it and some won't. You mean the integration business?

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I think as a whole it's all right. But you know, with everything you go at, everybody isn't going to be pleased.

PATTY DILLEY:

Around here, were they for the integration, or were they against it?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I'd say there was more for it than there was against it.

PATTY DILLEY:

What year do you think all the kids around here started going to the Conover Elementary up here, the big brick building?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I don't remember. I'm not sure whether they all went the first year or not.

PATTY DILLEY:

Was there any reaction from the white community up there? Did they oppose integration, or was it peaceful?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Not as I can recall. But it was probably some against it, but if they did you wouldn't know it. I'd say that on both sides.

PATTY DILLEY:

In some communities it seems like they had a lot of violence and fighting about it.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That started up at Hickory one time, like they couldn't get nothing over. But it looks like they've kind of got it stopped now, especially at Hickory High.

PATTY DILLEY:

I'm not so sure. It's a big school, and they've got a lot of nice things that we didn't have at Newton-Conover, but I don't think …

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

And they've got a lot of dope up there, too.

PATTY DILLEY:

I don't think I'd like to have gone up there. I don't like a school so big.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No.

PATTY DILLEY:

What kind of things did you do when you got off work, if you went to work early and got off in the afternoon?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Sometimes we'd pitch horseshoes or play ball or go fishing. I like to fish and stuff like that.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did any of the places you ever worked at, like at the furniture plant at Trendline, did they have a company softball team or baseball team?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. Softball. And a golf team. They still have it.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did you ever play on any of them?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No. I was down in the machine room, and that was up in the upholstering division.

PATTY DILLEY:

Oh, the upholstering division had them.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Right. But of course, if you'd wanted to go out, you could have gone. But they usually had all they could get on it anyway, after

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all of them picked out of the upholsterers up there in the finishing room what was there.

PATTY DILLEY:

When you worked at Conover Furniture, did they have their…

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No. That didn't exist then.

PATTY DILLEY:

I guess your wife did a lot of the household chores and things.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, just about all of it.

PATTY DILLEY:

What kind of things did you do around the house? Did you ever help her?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I did all the painting on the inside and the outside. And if there was anything to be moved or something like that, I'd do that.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did you all ever have a garden?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Was it big enough to can things from and keep things for the winter?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

At any of the places you ever worked at, did you ever live in any kind of company housing?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No. Never did.

PATTY DILLEY:

I understand that up here at Conover Furniture they had some kind of company housing for maybe some of the white workers? Do you remember that?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Where is that at?

PATTY DILLEY:

I'm not sure where it's at, but your brother mentioned it. But he didn't know where it was either. He said at one time Mr. Brady owned …

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes, they did. A lot of those houses right there behind what they call the graded school, might all of them down that line there, he …

PATTY DILLEY:

Let me get out a map. I want to see if you can show me where it is, because I wasn't exactly sure. I think they've torn down a whole lot of that.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

You know where you go out to Brown's Oil?

PATTY DILLEY:

Yes, Brown Oil Company.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

All down that line there.

PATTY DILLEY:

Here's Conover Furniture right here. And then you say where the school would be. The school would be right here. So all down this line here?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

All down that line here. Well, just about where a house sits down thataway now is where they had one. And some of them houses, I think, is the same ones, only just remodelled them a little bit. You know where Mrs. Drum lives over there, next to Floyd Brown?

PATTY DILLEY:

No.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

You know, the Drum's Funeral Home's widow. She lives next to Brown there. All down that street there were those houses. 6 * These are not the "company" houses of Brady, but were houses built by Bolick, of Conover Chair, when he expanded into the construction business. And then you go on down further, come on down thisaway, and on down below Brown's Oil Company on the right there, there's a bunch in there that

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they built them.

PATTY DILLEY:

It's hard to tell now, because either they're so redone that they look completely different on the outside …

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, they remodelled them.

PATTY DILLEY:

There's about three of them that really look like they might have been.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. Now them other ones, if I'm not mistaken, where the brick homes are there, they were tore completely down now, I think. Ralph Simmons used to live in one there. And Frank Gilbert used to live in one there.

PATTY DILLEY:

Now those two people worked at Conover Furniture.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That's right. Rob Herman.

PATTY DILLEY:

I'm trying to get names, too, of people. Do you remember some names of some other people that worked there at Conover Furniture?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Marion Heffner. He used to live in one of them homes down through there. And Rob Setzer. And I used to work there with G.W. Moelman; called him "Goosh." He's in California now. That's Beck Moelman's brother. And I worked there with the Simmons's, Cliff Simmons. And Cliff Brady; that was Mr. Brady's boy. And Walter Brady, his boy that worked in the office.

PATTY DILLEY:

So Cliff Brady worked out there with you all? And then Walter Brady worked in the office?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes, them was Mr. Brady's boys.

PATTY DILLEY:

What kind of job did Cliff Brady have there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

He was supposed to be working out in the plant, but he

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was just from place to place.

PATTY DILLEY:

Like a supervisor?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No. He was supposed to be working, but now you know …

PATTY DILLEY:

[Laughter] He didn't. Since his father owned it, he didn't have to work too hard.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

If you'd want to find him, you couldn't find him. He'd be out "on the hill" in the barroom, standing talking.

PATTY DILLEY:

[Laughter] Oh, that's funny. But he could get away with it.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

If anybody else tried that, could they get away with it? [Laughter]

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, there wouldn't be no way.

PATTY DILLEY:

What job did Cliff Simmons have there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

He could run most any kind of machine. You know that picker stick you was talking about a while ago? When they were green they'd cut them there, and he was the hacking man. He'd hack them outside or in the warehouse down there.

PATTY DILLEY:

How about G.W. Moelman? What kind of job did he have?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

He run the head machine what made that little round to put on those screws I was telling you about a while ago. And then Rob Setzer, he was the one who kept the bits and things sharp.

PATTY DILLEY:

How about Marion Heffner?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

He run a rip saw. He's the one that cut those picker sticks.

PATTY DILLEY:

So these were mainly the ones that worked in Hickory

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Handle?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Right.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did they keep on working there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Some of them did.

PATTY DILLEY:

How about Rob Herman?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, he didn't. I don't remember now what he did do after he left there. But his brother was a foreman there, Cal Herman. He was the superintendent. You know, Mr. Brady married their sister.

PATTY DILLEY:

I didn't know that.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

You know where Southern Furniture is? Right on down below, it's a machine shop right down there below Southern Furniture. Mr. Brady and them used to run it down there. Of course, I wasn't with them then, but that's where it really originated.

PATTY DILLEY:

They ran the Hickory Handle down there below Southern Furniture?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That was started by the Hermans.

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you know when they moved the plant up?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

No, I can't recall that.

PATTY DILLEY:

Was there a building there before they moved there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes. Him and Mr. Shuford was the ones that started it out, A.W. Shuford.

PATTY DILLEY:

It's funny how everybody seems related in the plant, All of the supervisors and then the people in the plant itself are all related and friends. It makes it a good place to work that way.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

That's right.

PATTY DILLEY:

You know a lot of people. When you brought home all the money, were you the one in your family that decided how to use the money?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

We'd usually get together on it. If she had an idea that we thought we should work to more than the other, why, we did that.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did you all ever have any extra money that you all were able to save, or did most of it go?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Along then, it was pretty hard to save. There wasn't much you could do.

PATTY DILLEY:

So most of it went into buying the essentials.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. It sure did.

PATTY DILLEY:

What were your priorities for your household? Was it maybe food first?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, food came first. And then clothing and stuff like …

PATTY DILLEY:

Did you all have your own house, or were you all renting?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

We had our own house.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did most people have their own house around here?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Some, and some didn't, along then.

PATTY DILLEY:

So a lot of people rented.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Oh, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

Who did they rent from? Just different people?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. Donald Bumgardner, he still has some out there. Now he was about the leading one down through here.

PATTY DILLEY:

What kind of appliances did you all have around in the house when you were a young married couple? Did you all have many appliances?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

A good many, yes. A washing machine and stuff like that.

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A freezer.

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you know about when you got those?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Not right offhand, no.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did you have to save money for them?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

You would usually buy them on installment. You'd get enough to make the down payment. You could do that any way you wanted to. You could pay it through the week or by the month, but the best way is to pay it by the week, so much a week.

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you think your wife had a lot more free time after she got some of those things?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

It took a lot off her about this washing business and all that, the washing machine and stuff like that. Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

So she had some more free time.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

So you thought they made her life a little bit easier?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I would think so, in a way, yes.

PATTY DILLEY:

When you all bought groceries and stuff for your house, where did you buy those?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Herman's Grocery here in Conover.

PATTY DILLEY:

Was that in the main town?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. The Hermans run it, Clint Herman and Mel.

PATTY DILLEY:

So everybody in town bought their groceries there?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Just about everybody.

PATTY DILLEY:

I think that's all I want to ask you today, but I might want to come back tomorrow and ask you some more questions about the different kinds of jobs you did and how you felt about all your different

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kinds of work, and what kind of work you liked best. But it gets pretty tiring, just answering questions. [Laughter]

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

[Laughter]

PATTY DILLEY:

I know it does. So it might be better; you might be able to think more on it.

[text deleted]

PATTY DILLEY:

Do you have any more to add? Is there any sort of questions I've missed, or, talking about your life, that you'd like to add any kind of story or something that happened to change your life a lot?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

After you're married, if you're going to try to do what's right, you have to kind of think about different things and get a little closer. Yes, I've thought about that.

PATTY DILLEY:

When you moved out of the house and started travelling around, when you came back to Conover did you move back in with your parents or did you have your own place to stay in?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

At first when I got married, I did.

PATTY DILLEY:

Did your parents always have children around the house, when they died? Or was there always somebody living with them?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes. One of my brothers was there with them.

PATTY DILLEY:

I just wondered, because some people will live by themselves, and then when they get sick they'll move in with their kids. But that wasn't the case, because their kids were still living there at home.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

I'm going to be off all next week, and maybe the next week, and then maybe we can get together on that.

PATTY DILLEY:

Okay. That might be even better then. I think I'd like to go talk to Bobby Baker. Where does he live around here?

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

If you go down that road, if you turn back towards, it's the second house on the right.

PATTY DILLEY:

I'll have to catch him after work.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

Yes, he works at Broyhill's.

[text deleted]

PATTY DILLEY:

I think he'd be interesting to talk to, too. Get your whole family.

OSCAR DEARMONT BAKER:

[Laughter] I've got something here I'll show you. [Shows a certificate that CUTI gave him for helping out at some of the classes.]