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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview H-0143, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
In this 1979 interview for the Piedmont Industrialization series, Nell Putnam Sigmon describes her upbringing in a large family, her decision at age eighteen to take a job sewing women's gloves, her work in the mill, and her experiences as wife and mother of two children. Sigmon grew up in a family of three girls and five boys; the family moved to various locations on account of her father's work supervising construction projects for Duke Power Company. On her own initiative, out of desire to make money and be with friends, she left school after completing the tenth grade and took a job sewing gloves at Conover Glove Company, in Conover, North Carolina. Except for a brief hiatus following the birth of a child, she worked her entire adult life in local textile mills sewing gloves, even taking a sewing machine into her home in order to continue working while tending to her ill husband and to earn extra money in retirement. She especially enjoyed the camaraderie with other women sewers and the relative independence afforded to them at the mill. Sigmon's mother died young, at age fifty-five, from a heart attack, which Sigmon attributes perhaps to the strain attending the overseas military deployment of all five of her brothers during World War II. At age twenty-seven, Sigmon married. Although her marriage was a happy one, she nonetheless recalls how she and another man, who still resides in the community, had earlier had strong feelings for one another. Sigmon explains how she knew nothing of childrearing upon getting married, but nonetheless managed with the help of her husband to ensure the children's health and education. Sigmon's husband, a mechanic, suffered from serious problems with his feet and later died of cancer after a long and painful decline; she was supported through this trial by women friends. Sigmon describes in detail her work making gloves, sketches the implications of changes in ownership of the mills, and notes that she and others often felt that the mill owners could have paid them more; that said, she regards unions as anathema. She also reflects on race relations in the mill and community, noting first that she can readily understand the desire by African Americans to have equal rights ("Well, they want to live, too") but also that she disapproves of mixed-race marriage ("that's just going too far") and worship.
In this 1979 interview, Nell Putnam Sigmon describes her upbringing in a large family, her decision at age eighteen to take a job sewing women's gloves, her work in the mill, and her experiences as wife and mother of two children.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
… Cleveland County?
That's over near Shelby.
And what did your daddy do?
He worked for Duke Power. They built these dams and powerhouses. In fact, he helped build the one at River Bent at Mount Harley and the one at Oxford Dam out here. And then we went to West Virginia, Goley Bridge. He helped build that one out there. We was out there about five or six year.
What was his job?
He was a foreman for the steel. He did the looking after the steel to see that it was laid right.
How did he get into that line of work?
I don't know. When he was just young, he built bridges. In fact, he helped build this overhead bridge down here. He was real good at reading blueprint and all that stuff. And I have a brother that lives in Thomasville, and he's a contractor.
You don't know how your daddy learned how to …
He just learned it on himself. He built houses, too. After he retired from that kind of work, he then started building houses and remodeling and stuff like that. That was after the War.
Mother died during the War. I had five brothers in the service, and every one of them had to go overseas, and that's when I lost my mother. She was a five-star War mother of this county, and they honored her. Oh, they made so much to-do over her. I think it brought her death faster.
Really?
Oh, she was honored at the Bond rallies and all that stuff. Just too much to-do over her.
You think that really hastened her death?
I do. I think it had a lot to do with it.
Did it make her …
She just stayed in a nervous tension all the time. And she had a heart
attack. She had went to get her eyes checked, and she got back home and
she set down. And she started coughing, and I know she began to line
You were there?
Yes. My daddy and me put her on the bed. And she just kept trying to talk, but yet she didn't. And I called the doctor, and when he got there he said that she had had a heart attack, and her heart was so weak that she couldn't throw it off.
How old was she when she died?
Fifty-five and one day old.
That's not very old.
Oh. I've got the awfulest bunch of stuff. They even put her picture in the paper and all that stuff, when she was honored and everything. They just made too much to-do over her. Her and another lady. This other lady had four, I believe.
Did you realize before she died that they were making too much to-do over her?
Yes, I had wrote the boys, and I said, "They're making too much to-do over Mother."
Did she complain about it?
No. But you could tell she was just worried to death all the time. And
when she died, I could not get one of them home. I went to the Red Cross
and just begged them. And they said, "No, we just can't. We're
How did her death affect you?
Oh, my Lord, I just thought I was going to die. Because me and her lived at home. Daddy worked in the shipyard. He knew that he had to do something to get a job, and at that time everything was going to defense work. So Daddy was at the shipyard.
Where?
In Norfolk, Virginia.
And you were the only child at home?
Yes. My sister was married, and my brother was married that was left. They both had families, is the reason they didn't go, but they did go to Baltimore to the aircraft plants.
Were you real close to your mother?
Oh, yes. Mother and me were just… I could have gotten married before the boys all had to leave, but I seen my brothers was going to have to all go, and I couldn't leave my mother. And I didn't want to get married and have that responsibility when I had her, and it was just about all I could do to look after Mother and work, too. And we'd get out and go to see the movies and visit the neighbors and all that stuff. We'd go down to Cleveland County and visit my aunts down there. Mother and her sisters were very close, too.
Did you have to take care of her? Was she a little bit feeble?
No, she was as spry as she could be. And she just loved to get out and go shopping. And, too, I did everything I thought was good for her. And I enjoyed getting out, too, because the more we would get out with people, the less time we would have to think about the War. And it was terrible. It was just boys getting killed every day or two.
Were you really afraid that your brothers were going to get killed?
Oh, yes. The night before she died, I don't know, I had such a terrible feeling. I felt like something was going to happen, and yet you didn't know what. You were just worked up inside. And we hadn't heard from a couple of the boys for several weeks, and that was sort of worrying her, too. Well, that night I went to sleep crying, and the next morning it still wasn't much better. I went to work, and I told the girls, "I've just got a feeling we're going to get some bad news from the boys." And they said, "Why, Nell, don't feel that way about it. Maybe not." But then it was Mother instead of the boys.
But you had a feeling ahead of time that something was going to happen.
Yes.
Had that ever happened to you before, that you sort of had a feeling ahead of time, and then something really did happen?
Yes.
During the Wartime, I met this boy—that's his picture over there. He come
home because one of his little sisters had died, and while he was on
leave I met him. Our Sunday school class was sending Christmas cards,
and so his name was in the paper and I sent him one, and that's what got
our friendship started. That was before his little sister died. And when
he come home for this funeral, he was in Oregon getting ready to ship
out for Rome, Italy, and the European countries. Well, I met him some
way. I don't know where it was now. I think it was at the fair, him and
this other soldier. And I don't know, I just started writing to him. He
had got my Christmas card, and I had just started writing to him, and
that's the way
So you had to write to all your brothers and tell them that your mother had died.
Yes. I cried and wrote. I wrote one letter, and I copied five.
You wrote one letter and then copied it over and sent it to each one of them.
Yes. That's the only way I could do. I was a nervous wreck when I got through writing that one.
How come your daddy didn't write the letters?
He didn't feel up to it. After I sort of got calmed down, he went back to the shipyard, because he only got a leave. You was assigned a leave. But then after all the boys got back in, they began to go into school and everything. I had one brother that went back out to California, the one that was in the Marines, and he was a pharmacist. And he married a girl, and he has two daughters. And one of his daughters is a doctor, and I'm really proud of her.
Wow. That's unusual for a girl to do, isn't it?
Yes. But she's a smart girl. She was a straight-A student. My daughter is a head nurse at Charlotte Memorial. My son works for Conscope. That's a big company. They make cable.
Who took care of the arrangements for your mother's funeral?
I did, me and my sister.
Was your sister living close by?
Yes.
So the two of you took care of all those arrangements. That must have been hard to do.
It was. But it so happened that we put the dress on her that she was honored in. I thought that dress looked so pretty on her.
What kind of funeral did she have?
It was just an ordinary funeral, but this lawyer from Hickory had had this pretty flag made for Mother. I thought it was just beautiful. Because she had all those boys that served. It was flowers made into a flag. But it was beautiful.
Oh, that he sent?
Yes.
Was he a friend of your family?
He just knew her through being honored. All the businessmen, the lawyers and all, honored the War mothers.
How did you get along then? Did you live by yourself after?
No, I moved into town. I couldn't stand to live out there. I stayed with my sister. I couldn't go back in that house. I stayed with my sister and her husband, and then I moved into Conover. And then when that boy got home, we dated a while, and we got married then, and we had two children.
How long did you go out before you got married?
Oh, we dated about six months, I reckon, but we'd been knowing each other a couple years. He was in the service twenty-three months, I believe; he was overseas that long.
Did you have any trouble making up your mind about whether to marry
Well, yes, I was. And my daddy said to me, "I just don't think that you should be getting married, because you've always had your way, and you just sort of do as you please, and it'll be altogether different when you get married." Well, I was twenty-seven years old. And I thought, "Well, now, all the boys are getting back and going into school, and I'm still going to be sitting by myself, and I may as well get married."
Were you worried about the fact that you might not be able to do what you wanted to?
Well, I don't know. I was just …
Why were you so used to doing as you pleased?
With those brothers, they were just so good to me and Mother, and I don't
know. You know, to grow up with five boys
When you first got married, did you find it hard at first?
Well, I don't know. I just made up my mind maybe I'd be better satisfied if I'd get married, so I did.
Did you find that you were better satisfied?
Well, yes, in lots of ways. I think a girl at twenty-seven, she's pretty
settled anyway. Or I was. In fact, I had several
friends that was married that I worked with, and I don't know; I just
was a settled type of girl.
What do you mean by "settled"?
Well, I don't know. I just didn't go a lot, and I stayed around home.
Nothing but the church work, is all, and my girlfriends would
Would you sit up and talk at night?
Yes. And one of their brothers played the piano. Oh, he was really good. We'd play the piano and sing. Girls didn't do like they do now, get out and drink and all that. You know, the girls are so different.
You think the girls are a lot different now?
Oh, yes, indeed. Why, we didn't drink or smoke or anything like that. Of course, there might have been some that did back then, but I just didn't go with that type of girls.
What was your husband like?
Well, he was a mechanic. He was a genius.
A genius?
Yes: And after he got back from service, he went to work for the State
Highway Department. He was head mechanic. Oh, he was one of the best.
Everybody said he really was a good mechanic. But the poor old thing
come down with… He had some feet problem. His feet were sort of frozen
when he was in the War. Wearing those old boots so long, and when he'd
pull them off, the blood and hide and everything would come off
Did he realize that he was about to die?
Oh, he had told me that he wasn't going to live long, and on Friday morning his back hurt him so bad he said, "Every bone in it feels like it's going to come out."
Was he afraid of dying, or was he ready to die …
He wished he could die. He wished he could die and get out of the misery.
How did you get through all that?
I don't know. And my friend had a husband that had a tumor on his brain.
A very fine fellow. And she has three grown boys. And her husband went
to the same hospital my daughter works. In fact, she was head nurse on
the same floor that he was on. And he had a tumor on his brain, and it
was malignant. And she told me one weekend she was home. She said,
"Mother, don't tell nobody, but Aunt Molly's (she called her "Aunt
Molly," because we just grew up together and everything) husband has got
cancer of the brain. They operated, but he'll probably lose his mind."
But he was just like my husband; he'd fall. She had her hands full, too.
We're still good friends. We go places together. I said, "Didn't you
feel like giving up sometimes? Or did you feel like that you might go
first?" She said,
He felt like these grandsons would take care of you then, when you were older.
Yes.
Are these Susan's children?
No, Steve's.
Susan's not married. She dates a doctor some, but he's still an intern, and he has a lot of duty to pull, and he has to study a lot, too.
How old is she?
She's twenty-six. Then, too, she's met this manager at Kroger's store, and she thinks a lot of him, too. Oh, she said he was a giant. He's six-four. That's her picture when she was in nurses' training. I've got several, though, of her. She's a little bit taller than I am. But she wears her hair different now.
Why has she waited so long to get married?
I don't know. She's just been in school so much, and she's just tied up
with her job. She bought her a new car, a new Thunderbird, last January.
And I don't know, her and her friends—they're nurses—have a good time.
So really, she's…
Where did she get that independence?
Oh, I guess from her daddy. Because he was sort of smart. I tell you. Well, she is, too. She's always made good grades. But that nursing program is so hard. They have to know as much as doctors, you know.
Did you want her to have a career?
Oh, when she was a little girl, that's all she talked about, was nurses' training. So we didn't let her date much when she was in high school. And we knew that's what she wanted. And my husband got a veteran's pension, and they signed him up to draw his Social Security, too. So the money problem wasn't no problem, because she was drawing a check from the Veterans, and, too, she won two scholarships. And we knew if she started dating, she'd get careless in her books. And we just sort of were strict. Well, not too much, though, I don't reckon.
Did she resent that at all?
No, she didn't. But then after she got in her twenties, then she said, "In a way, I'm glad you and Daddy was as strict on me as you were, because I might have got sort of careless. I am really proud of my career, though, now." And Steve wanted to take a mechanical course. He's really good, too, and he can paint cars. He has a shop, and he paints cars and works on cars, besides his regular job. So he has a little extra income, too.
After your husband died, how did you make the adjustment then to being on your own? What was that period like?
If it hadn't been for my widow friends and my neighbors… I've got neighbors …
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
They're as close to you as relatives?
Yes. Call me every day and lives up here. I'm not a bit more afraid to
stay here than nothing. But at first I was. This widow lady over here
and this widow over there, she has a son with her. But I would go over
at night and spend the night with her a lot. And then I decided… My son
sort of talked me into selling this place and coming on down and living
with him, get me a trailer. They're as nice as a home,
You'd get up and …
At night and look out to see if it was anything.
You'd hear noises.
Yes. And I'd go back to bed, go back to sleep.
Had you ever had any kind of frightening things happen to you?
No, not after I lost him. Nobody never bothers me or anything. And everybody now knows I live here alone. Of course, the Highway Patrol station's up here, and we have a good friend that works up there. And I told him if I ever needed anybody right quick, he'd be one of the first ones I'd call.
Who did help you the most while your husband was sick?
My sister-in-law. Well, my neighbors would come in and sit with him and talk to him, which was good. And they're retired up there. He's had two heart attacks, so he would come in and talk to him a lot. And they'd sit out in the yard and talk.
But your sister-in-law was really your main …
Yes, she was so good to take him to the doctor. Well, it almost took both of us when he got further along.
During your marriage before he got sick, did you have any kind of rocky times, any disagreements or hard things like that?
No, I just sort of let him have his way. That's just the way you're supposed to do things like that. Just go along with anything he wants to do, because he was sick; he felt bad all the time. Cancer must be a terrible, painful thing. Because my daughter said they had some patients there that would never leave the hospital.
During the earlier years before he got sick, was he pretty much the boss, and he pretty much made all the decisions?
Yes, I always felt like the man should be the boss. He looked after all
the bills and everything, and now I've got all that to do. All
Were there things where you made the decisions?
Well, sometime.
What kind of things would that be?
I guess everybody talks over things before they make a decision. He had a pretty good head on him. He didn't go out further than he could reach.
What happened to your independence and being used to having your own way?
I still sort of stuck up for my rights.
Did your husband mind you taking the children?
No, he knew I was doing it for their own good. Because he liked to go fishing and hunting and things like that.
Did you and your husband do things together, or did you do things with your women friends?
I didn't go out with my women friends. If we went anywhere, we went together and took our children. After his feet got so bad, he didn't… He doctored them a lot, and they just kept getting worse and worse. And he'd sit around and soak his feet and rest and things like that. And then that cancer was working on him all those years. I'm sure that they had not diagnosed his case. Because they said John Wayne had cancer twelve year before they found out he had it. And he was in that War, too.
Did you feel like you could talk to your husband about anything that was on your mind?
Yes, I did. Yes, we'd sit and talk a lot of time. And you know, he even
went as far as telling me that he wanted this funeral home in Newton to
have his body, which Maiden, we knew them real well, too. And I know the
one in Conover. He said he wanted Rex to have him, because he said he
thought Rex did a real nice job. Boy, we give him a nice funeral,
though, let me tell you. And we used a flag. They give all the veterans
a flag, I guess. But he had bought this new suit before he got so bad
sick. It was beautiful. And I put that on him. You know, when he died he
had a smile on his face. That was unusual. And he just perked up. His
jaws had got so big and puffed, but I guess the fluid they took out of
him at the funeral home made him look more normal. But they said he just
looked like he was asleep and he didn't have a pain in the world.
Everybody said it, too. But he sure did look good to be sick so long. He
looked sort of
What church did you go to?
May's Chapel Methodist. But we had his funeral on Easter Sunday.
Were you raised as a Methodist?
No, I was a Baptist.
How did you change over to the Methodist church?
I think when people get married they should belong to one church, and then when we had our family started I just joined his church.
He was a Methodist?
Yes. His family were.
Did you see much difference between the Methodist and the Baptist church?
No, I didn't. Only they baptize their babies, where we don't. They wait until they're about twelve years old. They [the Baptists?] baptize their babies when they're small, and then they take this Bible study when they're about twelve or fourteen, and then they join the church.
Did you believe in infant baptism?
Yes, I don't have anything against it. It's just something that you take the vows that you're going to live right and be good to those children and see that they're raised right. That's the only thing I see.
Did you miss that once you went to the Methodist church?
Oh, yes, I did. I went along with that. I thought it was good, too. But the Baptists don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. And the Lutherans do that, too.
Has your religion taught you certain things about how to live your life?
Oh, sure. I think if you stay in the church, your life is a good life.
And I have really raised my children in the church. And I see that my
little grandsons are in Sunday school every Sunday, too.
Did you have a particular conversion experience, a particular moment when you had salvation?
No, not necessarily. I've just always tried to live a good life. I knew right from wrong, and I knew if you taught your children that, that they would always do right, too.
Let me ask you a little bit more about your own childhood. Do you know anything about where your mother and daddy came from or anything about their background?
Yes, they were born down there, and Mother and Daddy was married there. And the preacher that married her and Daddy preached her funeral. He was still living, but he had retired. Because she was in the church at the time that she was growing up, and she played the organ in the church.
Did you know your grandparents?
Yes.
Do you know what your grandparents had done for a living?
My grandfather had a farm, and he had tenants on his farm.
Did you ever go out to that farm?
Oh, yes. I remember when I was a little girl. Oh, he was so crazy over
me, and I was just a little girl. Every time I'd have a birthday, he'd
get material for me a new dress.
You don't like it because it's so old-fashioned?
Well, it's not that. It's just such an odd name. E-M-M-A. Isn't that an odd name?
My grandmother's name was Emma.
Really? My mother's name was Julia, and it's two in my family. They have named their children. One of them named their little girl Julie, and my brother named his daughter Julia. They didn't want them to be exactly alike, but they still loved the name of Julia.
Mother was an awful good mother, and a real good woman.
What was it that made her such a good woman?
I don't know. She was just liked by everybody. She was just so good to everybody. I never will forget one time. We lived beside of some people, and their baby was just a little thing, and it had pneumonia. And Mother stayed out there at their house so much. And one night it was choking up, and they come for Mother. Said they wanted her to come back out there, that their baby had took another choking spell. But the doctor said it was so sick, they didn't think he'd make it. And they didn't put it in the hospital. People didn't used to go to the hospital, it seems like. And Mother went out there during the night. They come to get her, and she said, "I'm going to leave you all a while. They've come for me to go out there and sit with that baby a while." So Mother went out there and greased that baby real good that night and set up and held [helped?] him.
Greased the baby?
Yes. With Vicks. And set out there with that baby that night. They said every time Mother left, the baby would get worse.
Did she do that for other people, go when someone was sick?
No, she just did it for those people. She thought a whole lot of them.
Was your daddy a lot different from your mother?
No, not much different. Well, my family was just close. That's why it
hurt me so bad when I had to give up my mother. We were all so close.
And you can just imagine how a bunch of high school boys would be.
Did they tease you a lot?
Oh, and aggravate the life out of me.
Did they ever make you unhappy or mad?
No. But they could wash and iron and cook. Every one of them could do all kinds of things.
The boys could do those things?
Yes. And the one that went to California was a pharmacist. He could can food, vegetables. Beans and things like that out of the garden.
How did that come about, that the boys learned how to do those things?
Just being around Mother. They'd just chip in and help. That one, he could operate the canner as good as Mother.
Did your daddy help around the house like that?
Yes. Well, he worked at the public work about all the time.
So he didn't do …
And one did the milking. We had cows then.
Did you live on a farm?
Yes, we lived out in the country.
Did your daddy travel around a lot?
Yes, he worked at construction work. After we got older and the boys were in high school, we didn't want to travel then, so we just got us a house and settled down. And then when he'd get weekends off, he'd come home.
And did you actually raise crops?
We had a garden and just things like that. We had cows. We didn't have a whole lot. I think we had two milk cows.
Do you remember any stories your grandparents told about their childhood or anything, where they came from?
No, I don't. But they have some kind of a history. They still have that memorial service or homecoming or something down home, and we go down there every summer. It's the first Sunday in August. And they read the history. And they keep the dates of the children that's baptized, and this older brother of mine had a stroke and he died after six years. Well, they still had that on record down there, when he joined the church and the date and everything. They read that the summer that he had died. He had died in June, and they had that on record, and they read it.
So the homecoming is at the church.
No, it's down at the cemetery. They have this huge building. And it has benches, and they have the organ. They always take an organ down there. We have singing, and they read this history and all that stuff. People from far and near come.
Is it all the people in your home church, or is it all your relatives?
About everybody down in there that go are related. See, they
People come from that far away?
Yes. Even my aunt come in from San Francisco.
Amazing. Now where is this?
In Cleveland County.
Is it near some town there?
Yes, it's near Waco.
Are most of the people around in that area related to each other?
Yes, the majority of them. And what have moved off… Like the girls grew up and moved off and went to college, and the boys moved off and married other girls. And they still like to come in for that special occasion if they can. And it's a load of teachers in my family. One minister. One doctor, although he's dead. Dr. Elliott. The rest that are living still try to come home for this special occasion.
When you all decided to settle down, was that in Cleveland County?
No, this was in Catawba.
When you were in high school, you were living at home with your mother and brothers while your daddy would travel around?
No, that was in West Virginia when I was in high school.
So you were already out of school when you settled down here?
Yes.
Did you graduate from high school?
No, I didn't go any further than the tenth.
What made you decide to stop?
We moved back here, and I found a job sewing gloves, so I just decided to take that, but then I helped the other boys to get through. They all graduated.
How did that happen, that you decided to go out and find yourself a job?
I don't know. All the other girls were, so I thought I wanted to work, too.
So your girlfriends were getting jobs. Were they mostly working in the glove factory?
That's about all the kind of work they did, unless they did go to college. And you know, work was the big thing; not many children could go to college. Maybe one or two of them.
Could you have gotten a job in a hosiery mill or a textile mill?
I sort of applied, but they were full up at the time. Times were sort of hard, and there just wasn't too many jobs. And the girls was just beginning to go into public work around town.
So you did apply for work at a hosiery mill?
Yes.
Were there textile mills around here, cotton mills?
Oh, that's about all it was.
Did you think a glove mill was different?
Yes. I love to sew, and I sort of liked sewing.
You already had learned how to sew at home?
Yes. I could sew a little bit. I made dresses some.
Did you just go down on your own and apply for this job, or did somebody else speak for you?
I went and applied for it myself.
How did your parents feel about you going to work?
Oh, they thought it was all right, because the neighbor girls were
working, and I just said, "I want to work, too." I was eighteen, and I
thought
Did you not like school?
Yes, in some ways I did, but, like I say, moving around, it sort of puts you behind. But the boys was right at the age that they was interested in it. They were all good-looking, and the girls just all fell for them. And naturally that kept them in school.
I bet you were good-looking yourself. You still are. That's a pretty picture.
That was my picture when I was young. I guess I was about twenty-five when it was made. And that's my husband.
That's a beautiful picture.
Like I say, that picture has been a long ways.
That sure has. It's real pretty.
What was your first day of work like?
You know, learning. You have to learn to sew. They give you a certain time to learn. Well, you naturally pick it up the more days you're working.
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
[START OF TAPE 2, SIDE A]
Oh, mercy, I was eighteen. I'm sixty- five now [sixty-six].
What was the date of your birth?
The twenty-third of August, 1913.
You were a sewer?
Yes.
What mill was this?
This was Conover Glove. They had an instructor that taught you.
Was that all she did?
Yes. She taught people to sew.
Was it hard to learn?
Naturally, when you sit down to an electric sewing machine that just flies when you step on the pedal, you automatically have got to learn to control the machine first.
… toward raising your children more than anything?
Yes, I did. Like Easter and Christmas, I always got them new clothes. I'd do without myself to get them well dressed for Easter and Christmas and see that they had everything other children had. Because they were always in Christmas programs and different things, and especially at Easter I always had them well dressed. Because I enjoyed that. And always people would talk about my pretty babies. Well, I'd get out and show them off, too. I know people said, "Every time you have a baby, they just get that much better-looking." I did have two pretty babies, and I was proud of them. I was a good mother for them.
Do you think they appreciated your …
Oh, indeed I do, now. They sure do. That's why they're so good to me.
Do you think that your husband appreciated you, too?
Yes, I know he did. But he often made remarks that he was sorry that he
had punished me with his sickness and all that stuff. Well, he couldn't
help that. That's just something we got to live with. That
That's when the RNA or…
NRA?
NRA. That's when that come along, and people was only allowed so many hours' work.
Do you remember when they started the eight-hour day?
Yes. I had just started when they passed that bill.
Did the company managers come in and tell you that they were going to start doing that, or how did you learn about it?
It was just all textile plants. They had to abide by their rules. The President passed that law, and everybody had to go along with it.
Did you think it was a good thing?
Yes. Because I think sitting and sewing so many hours is enough. You don't have to get out in the open and things like that.
When you started working, did you miss being out in the open?
No, not too much, because you're with your friends and you have a good time at work, and when you go home you enjoy being at home.
What kind of good times would you have at work?
We'd just talk and laugh
So you could talk while you were sewing?
Yes. See, we were sitting close together, one on each side, a row up this
way and a row up just opposite you. You was about that far
Did you sit next to girls that you already knew before you went to work?
No. We just had to learn from the beginning. Some were older, and some maybe was a little younger. But I enjoyed it. It was something different, and I knew I was growing up and I'd like to get out and make me some money.
What did you do with your money?
You know, helped the others some, the rest of the family, Mother and… I don't know. You just find places.
Was there anything that you didn't like about that work?
No. Mother sewed a lot. We'd get material, and she'd make us clothes. We didn't go to the store and buy everything that we wore like they do now. You don't find people that sew like they used to.
Were there all women sewers?
Yes.
Why was that?
Men don't sew.
In the glove mill, men don't sew?
No. They turned and steamed the gloves to get them ready to ship.
How long did you work at Conover Glove?
Several year.
And then did you go to someplace else?
Yes. Well, work got so bad we was just working two or three days a week,
and then they finally laid all us younger ones off. They kind of hung
onto the older hands. I was so fortunate. I come on down to Newton
Glove, and
Back at Conover Glove?
Yes.
The same place.
No, it wasn't the same company, but it's the one I work for now. So I've been working with them ever since he was two years old.
Do you see any differences in the way different companies treat their hands?
Yes. It's a northern bunch that bought out this other place, and I'd a lot rather work for local people.
Why is that?
I don't know. Naturally, when you work for a bigger place, you've got to be more particular. They just like things different and everything. Up here, we're just one big family.
Which was run by northern …
They bought the Newton Glove. The bigger the place is, the more… I don't know whether it's all that different. There's still some of them works up there, a lot of them, that I did work with. Some's retired. But it's not many of them that's got machines at home. But after I got my machine at home, I just hung onto it; it's good.
So it was when your husband got sick that the company gave you a machine?
Yes.
Did you ask them to do that?
I told them I was going to have to quit, because my children were
Why don't many people have machines at home?
I don't know. I reckon they felt like I was a good hand. They'd let me
make some of the samples, anyway.
The other girls said that?
Yes.
Were they teasing you? Were they kind of jealous?
They was teasing. They knew it was the truth, though.
Were the other girls a little bit jealous, do you think?
Well, they might have been.
Is Myrtle a friend of yours?
Yes. Myrtle Bolick. She was a friend of mine. She's retired. She's older than I am. Her husband's dead, too.
What did it take to make a pretty glove? What did you have to do?
It's just got to be neat, and the seams have got to be so neat
Were you very fast?
Yes, I was. But I've slowed down now. I guess I could make a hundred dollars a week, but I don't. I usually make about sixty. I don't want to make more than what I'm supposed to, because I'm on my husband's Social Security. And really, I worked hard all my life, and I think I deserve a break.
I should say.
And I said I had raised my children, and we give them both a good education. And I've waited on my husband and buried him. And I don't know, I think I've been a good wife and a good mother to my family, and I think I deserve a break.
While you were working, did you get any paid vacations or health insurance?
Yes, they give us a little extra for vacation money. They still do.
Who would be your supervisor? Was there a floor lady over the sewers and then a supervisor above her, or how would that work?
Not after you learn, you don't have anybody over you. It's just while you're learning.
There wasn't anybody that really watched your work very closely?
No, not now they don't. They did when we were learning, but one time
you'd learned, well… I tell you, one time you learn to make gloves, you
never forget it.
I was talking to Katherine Killian the other day. Do you know her?
Yes. She sews at home, too.
And she was saying when she first started working at the glove mill, she dreamed about making gloves all night.
Oh, yes, you do. It's just something you don't forget.
Didn't you have some kind of boss over you, though?
The man that owns the place, or we have an assistant.
Who owned these different places where you worked?
Arthur Little owns this one that I work for now. He used to work as shipping clerk when I did. And he married a schoolteacher, and she inherited some money, and that's how he got his plant, and now he has six. So he's just made money make money.
What kind of a boss is he?
He owns the place. He's just an ordinary…
You paint?
Yes, I paint my rooms. In fact, it hasn't been long since I painted this one.
Yes, it looks nice and fresh.
But I want to have my floors covered.
Did you ever feel like the company ought to be paying you more money than they were?
Well, they got a certain rate they pay us. Different kinds of gloves pay different prices. But I guess they average it up. If I'd just stay at it I could make more, but, like I said, I've worked all my life, and I feel like I should slow down.
But they could pay you more, at a higher rate, for what you do.
Yes, they could, because he can afford it, I'm sure. But he's somebody he likes to make his hands work for what they get. Just like all of them. They want to get all they can out of their help. I'm sure he can pay more.
Did people ever try to ask for a higher production rate or try to argue that the company should pay the hands a little bit more?
A lot of times I heard the girls say that he could pay more. Different things. But every so often he would give us a three- or four-cent raise, maybe five. But we haven't had a raise now a couple year.
You don't get cost-of-living raises?
No. He makes you work for what… Well, they all do. They make you work for your production. The production they set at a certain percent, so much an hour. Well, he'll make you work for that, as well as them giving you.
Were there ever any strikes or efforts to organize a labor union in the plants where you were working?
No.
Anywhere around here that you know of?
No. Nothing but the GE plant. They strike every once in a while, but that's up between Conover and Hickory. But they're union anyway.
What do you think about unions?
I don't think it's right.
Why is that?
I don't really know all that much about it.
Have you ever been interested in politics at all?
Not really.
What about your husband?
No, he wasn't too concerned either, because he knew whichever way it went, that's the way it'd go anyway.
Were you Democrats or Republicans?
Democrat.
Were you raised a Democrat?
Yes.
Have you had a favorite president?
Oh, President Roosevelt. It wasn't his fault that war started, but he sure did do a lot for people.
What did he do that you think was the most helpful to …
He just helped the poor people a lot. That's what caused people to get on their feet. Although he couldn't help the War, I don't think. But nobody could, I guess. Such a sudden thing and, too, we had to give up all the boys to go, but after all they all got back.
When you decided to go out and get your first job, and your other
girlfriends were doing that, did your parents worry at all about you
going
No.
They weren't bothered by that at all?
No.
Do you remember hearing anything about other women in your family in earlier days working in any kind of factories or doing any kind of public work?
No. It used to be—that was before my time—that women had to go to the fields and work. But then when I was coming along, people was beginning to work in the factories and things.
Did your mother work in the fields?
No, she didn't. Daddy always made enough money. She always just looked after the house.
Did she do anything in the house to make money, like take in boarders?
Sew. She would sew for the public.
So people would come over and bring her material and ask her to make things for them?
Yes. I've seen her make dresses for people that were in plays and different things at school.
When you were growing up out in Cleveland County, what did you think of as being your community or your neighborhood? How far around did you think of as being your home place?
Everybody was related some way or another. I don't know.
Were people scattered out on little farms, or was there a little town there?
Yes, there was a little town.
How long have you lived in this house?
Twenty-five year.
What do you think of as being your neighborhood? How far …
Oh, I have wonderful neighbors.
Does that stretch all the way …
From Newton to Maiden.
Really? You know people all along this road?
I know everybody on this highway. And it's nine widows between… You know where the bypass starts in? Up here at the old hospital. Between there and the Patrol station, it is nine widows in this area.
Amazing. How did you get to know all these people up and down the highway?
I've just known them ever since I've lived here, because some of them goes to my church. This girl over here, she's been married the second time. And she lived at Conover, too, and her husband got killed in the War, too. So she remarried, this widow over here. So we're good friends. We were good friends before she married him. I knew Helen and her husband whenever they were dating.
Up and down this road, what did most of the people's husbands do for a living? Do most of these women that you know work?
The widowed women usually are still working, too.
Where do they mostly work?
Helen over here works at a Sherwin Williams paint shop. And Mrs. Young don't work. Mrs. Mills don't work; she's a widow. Clara don't work; she's retired.
Did many of them work in the glove mills?
Yes, she did.
Did you ever consider trying to get a job in upholstery instead of sewing gloves?
No. One time I thought
Do people in upholstery make more money?
Well, they say they do. But it's heavier work, heavier sewing. You take all this old heavy cloth. And you've got to put it over your shoulder to sew all these seams around it and everything. So, really, it's heavier work. Well, they make more, but good grief, it's heavier work, too.
When you were growing up, what did you want to be when you grew up?
I wanted to be a nurse. But it was a large family of us; it was eight of us children. So I seen it wasn't much chance of me going into school, so I always helped the boys some. They were all in high school, and I just helped them along some, and went on sewing gloves. Well, really, I enjoyed that, and so that's just the way it was.
Was there any way in the glove factory of getting a promotion? Could you have moved on to a better job in the glove factory at all?
No, it's too many women that did the sewing. Just once in a while they'd pick one out of the group for something like that. You don't have much …
[END OF TAPE 2, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 2, SIDE B]
They'd pick one out of the group to do what?
Maybe sort of be floor lady or something, sort of look after things.
What kind of people would get picked for that?
My sister was one, and then this friend of mine that's retired now. And now the assistant supervisor put his daughter in. So they didn't even finish high school. Put them in the mill and they worked a while; then they got the jobs.
Over some of the women who'd been there a long time.
Yes, I guess so. Now that's not hardly right, is it? And don't you never tell I told you.
Okay.
Because that's just the way it is, and they're probably drawing good pay.
Did people talk about that?
Well, sure they did. They felt like some of the older hands should have that job.
Is there any seniority?
No.
Did you ever belong to any clubs or organizations besides the church?
No, I always kept myself busy working with my children.
In the church, is there a women's missionary organization?
Yes. But I'd have to get out by myself at night
What was the name of this women's organization you used to …
The Missionary Society.
Did your husband belong to anything?
He belonged to the American Legion and the VFW.
Was he as active in church as you were?
No, his health wasn't all that good, and he didn't… In fact, there for a while he didn't even go to church, because he just couldn't wear his dress shoes. He wore sandals. He had to wear white socks all the time, and he just never did dress up an awful lot unless he went to a funeral or something like that.
Are there any blacks that work in the glove mills now?
Oh, yes.
When did that start?
A couple year ago, when they equalized the… They make good hands.
What jobs do they do?
Sew. Some works on the table putting the gloves in boxes. Different things.
How did the people feel when blacks started coming in?
I've heard some of the girls say that they'd just as soon have a black nice person beside of them as white. They have to fill out a form. They've got to be sort of respectable.
Was there any resentment or …
I don't think so. Because it's some nice colored people lives over there
in that colored town, Coulters
Where is colored town?
Right back over in there behind Helen's. It's a road back in there.
Did you ever have any black women come in to clean your house or to
No, I took care of mine myself. Or take them out to the babysitter. I used to get up and get mine ready and take them to the babysitter. This Mrs. Davidson used to keep both of mine. But I don't know how I did it, get up and get them dressed. Feed them their breakfast and fix the baby's bottles. But I did.
How do you think the integration of the schools and the restaurants and so on has affected the area around here?
I don't reckon it's done all that much. I think you can just fall in and accept it and just think, "Well, they want to live, too." And so I don't know. There are exceptions, just like whites.
So when that change happened, you thought that that was okay.
I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a lot of nice colored people that want to be and try, and I think it has helped them as well as… But I'll tell you one thing: they've all cleaned up, haven't they? To what they used to be. But now down in Cleveland County, like I said, my grandfather had a lot of colored people working on his farm. And I know those colored women used to come in and do the washing of the dishes and washing and ironing and stuff like that. Well, really, it didn't do too much to me. Because my aunt still had a colored woman come in and do her washing.
You mean you'd been used to being around …
Yes, because my grandfather and grandmother had colored people around them, and that's how the colored people lived down there, just do the white people.
Has that changed?
Yes, because they want jobs now. They've got a taste of that
What kind of scandals do you hear about now?
You know, whites living with blacks and all of that stuff. Now right over
there is a boy and a girl that went to high school at Maiden, and they
married, and they've got two little dark children. And she lives over
there with those blacks. Now I don't approve of that. That's just going
too far with… And I don't believe in them going to church together. Now
that might be all right, but… Well, now, they go to school together. I
guess that'll have to be all right, but …
Why don't you like them to go to church together?
Well, I don't know. I just think they have their churches; they shouldn't
go to our churches. I don't believe in mixing too much. But the way they got to learn to like each other, they went to
school together. But it's not nothing we can do about the school
business. It's here for long
How has this community changed over the course of time since you've lived here?
A lot of the older ones have died out. Helen's lost her husband—he had a
stroke—and I lost mine. Mrs. Neal's lost hers. And Dot Harris lives over
there; she lost hers. So, really, everybody's getting older. And they
look back over the years and see where mine were growing up when theirs
were. And we all enjoyed our children and the neighbors' children.
They'd come and play with them, and they'd go play with them over at
their house. Usually
Did you try to raise your children the same way that you were raised, or did you try to raise them differently?
I sort of just raised mine like I was raised. I kept them well fed, and I
kept them clean, and they were healthy.
Your mother had eight children, and you only had two?
Yes.
Did you want to have only two children? Was that your plan?
No, I sort of wanted four children. I wanted two boys and two girls or
three boys and one girl. I don't know. I had my fortune told one time
when I was a young girl,
How did you feel about that?
Well, I sort of went along with him, because him and the doctor thought
it was best that I didn't have any more, because I was taking a chance
the third time. And, too, he didn't want nothing to happen to either one
of these others, so if one would happen to die or anything that I could
have another one. But he didn't take no chances on me having any more.
But there's six years' difference in my children. And it about worried
him to death the last time I got pregnant. But I got along real good the
last time. But I said the Lord had sure been good to me in so many
different ways, because I had these two little grandsons that filled in
for my two children.
What did you do to keep from getting pregnant after your second child was born?
Well, I don't know, just take precautions.
Did your husband use rubbers or something?
Well, most of the time. But he was careful not to get me pregnant. And I took douches a lot. The doctor give me something to take douches with.
Do douches work to prevent pregnancies?
Well, yes.
Are they pretty foolproof?
As long as you keep yourself clean, you're not going to get pregnant.
Sometimes people do get pregnant, though, anyway.
Yes.
Did you know anything about the facts of life before you got married?
No, I did not. I didn't know nothing about babies, getting pregnant, or none of that stuff.
Really?
No, ma'am!
You didn't know a thing?
No, sir.
And you were twenty-seven?
Well, after I got that age I did. But I still didn't realize
What do you mean?
Because I didn't know nothing about babies.
What book did you have?
The doctor give me a baby's book.
Was it Dr. Spock?
I don't know.
And you really followed that?
He give me some other books that he had in the office that he'd give to young mothers, and I'd read them. But he said you feed your baby when he cries or acts like he's hungry, and keep him dry. That makes a good baby, and all that stuff.
So when you were growing up, your mother never told you or nobody ever talked to you about that?
She didn't tell me nothing about men and all that stuff. I had to learn that all over. I didn't know anything about that.
How did you learn about it?
Just through actual experience. You know, girls didn't do all that stuff when I was growing up.
When you were growing up, did you ever hear about people who got pregnant before they were married?
Yes, and a girl that I knew got pregnant, and she drank turpentine or
something. But anyway, she had a miscarriage. But when a girl got
pregnant, everybody knew it, didn't it?
I wonder how everybody knew. Did the boy tell?
I guess he told it to the other boys, and that's how the girls all found
it out.
I can see that.
And this boy I dated some, I think he looked like Clark Gable. He married another girl. But all the time he loved me to death and wouldn't let me know it. And then after he got married, I thought, "Well, shoot, I may as well get married, too. I've lost him." But now that my husband's been gone, he made a remark he always did love that girl.
Really?
Yes, sir. His wife's in bad health. I might get him yet. You never know.
How did you hear about this remark he made?
Oh, I heard it through some friends. When I lost my husband, I heard that
he said, "I always did love that girl." But if he loved me,
Did you find it hard to get used to making love after you got married, or did you enjoy it?
Well, naturally when you just see somebody… Well, Clinton was so sweet to me. And oh, he was a-loving me to death. Well, naturally, he was so sweet to me and everything, I couldn't help but like him, too, but I married him after this other friend got married. He got married and went into service, so I waited on this one. But I've seen him so many times, and he really gives me the once-over.
Really?
Oh, yes. He's got the salt-and-pepper grey hair now, and his wife's white-headed. She's got bad health. And I don't know, there's still something there.
These things can last a long time.
Once you love somebody, it never gets out of your life. It's just there,
and you can't help it. I still like him some, but I'm not going to put
myself in his way and him with that sick wife, because she might smell a
rat sometime. In fact, I think he's said something to her, because every
time she sees me she likes to look at me. And I don't want nothing
between me and him no way. Because she's sick, and I wouldn't
Did you ever have any trouble with your husband being interested in other women?
No, law, he didn't love nobody else but me. In fact, he loved me so much
he was jealous of me.
Oh, really?
Mm-hmm.
What would make him jealous?
One time a man was sitting here at our table, and they was talking about
their wives and different things. And Paul brought up the subject. He
said, "Clint, you've got a helluva good woman, and you don't appreciate
her." He said, "I do." But then all the time he was jealous. And other
friends would tell him. He'd make sort of smart remarks when we'd be
around other people. One other couple we was with one time was over at
our house. We were both young, had babies, and he'd make remarks, and
James
Do you think he loved you more than you loved him, in a way?
Yes, I think he did. Because I never was jealous of him, and he was of me.
I know so many husbands and wives these days seem to have trouble over sex. Did you have a good sexual relationship?
Yes, I
Exactly. That's what I've been noticing.
That's why I said this fellow that liked me so much, I think he's sort of tired of his wife being sick so long. And I don't know; he pays too much attention to me. Even if he's with her out anywhere, he does. He sort of ignores her in public and pays too much attention to me. So I think he's sort of tired of her being sick. But, you know, a man can't take that as long as women can. I think women learn to accept it or something.
END OF INTERVIEW