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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview H-0161, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
George and Tessie Dyer worked in Charlotte textile mills for much of their lives. This interview begins with a discussion of their childhood and the work that their parents and grandparents did. Tessie Dyer began working in Charlotte in 1926. She describes the variety of jobs she had within the mill as well as her relationship with coworkers. George describes his job as a cotton yarn spinner as well as other jobs he had in Virginia and New York. They recall the parties young adults would attend after work—they maintain that people enjoyed their lives despite the difficulty of their jobs. The Dyers also describe how Tessie's mother took care of their sons while they worked at the mill. The interview ends with their observations about union activity at the local mills and their opinion on whether the unions were useful. They both recognize that the lack of a strong union during their working years negatively influenced their financial security during retirement.
George and Tessie Dyer discuss their jobs in Charlotte cotton mills and their lives outside of work. They describe their childhood and the work their parents and grandparents did. They recall the parties and social events that their friends participated in after work. The interview ends with their observations about local union activity.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
You say you grew up here in Charlotte?
No, I didn't. I grew up in Cabarrus County, but I moved to Charlotte when I was eleven years old.
You can't hardly say you grew up in Cabarrus County. You must have grew up. . . .
No, I said I was eleven years old when we moved to Charlotte, but I attended school here in Charlotte—over here at Villa Heights School. When I was old enough to go to work, I was signed up and I went to work down here at Highland Park. First went in the spinning room, and then from there, I went to the draw-in room. I stayed there until 1969. The mill closed down.
What had your parents done in Cabarrus County?
Mill work, textile. That was all was in these towns. They call them textile mills, but they called them cotton mills back then.
They're not any cotton mills here now in Charlotte. They're all closed down.
They were small works but didn't manage too much.
This was the last one—Highland Park #3. Highland Park #2 and Highland Park #1 is in Rock Hill. I guess it closed down too; they all closed down.
Had your grandparents also worked in textiles?
No, my grandparents didn't work in the mill as I know of.
Did they farm? Do you know what they did?
On my father's side, they farmed. On my mother's side, I believe they did live on a farm one time. Moved from Albemarle here, I mean Cabarrus County.
Did your grandparents live close to you?
Oh, yes.
Did you visit them on their farm?
Yes, my grandfather did. My mother's parents, they didn't live on a farm. They moved to Concord off the farm.
What do you remember about visiting on the farm? Did you like that?
Oh, yes. I enjoyed it very much.
What kind of crops did they grow? Did they have animals?
Cotton.
What else?
I remember I went there one time and it was a-blooming; it was red. I asked him when it opened up good would it still be red. He said, "Oh no." The first time I'd seen it, I didn't know that, but I enjoyed going to the farm very much.
Did your grandmother help him work the farm, or did she primarily stay in the house to work?
Not too much, she didn't.
I guess she had a full-time job looking after the cooking, and milking cows and things, like all them women.
So she did things like that, she tended cows and stuff. How many brothers and sisters did you have?
Did I have? I had two sisters and one brother—three girls and one boy.
Where were you in all that? Who came first?
I did.
You were the oldest then?
I'm the oldest.
Why did your parents decide to move to Charlotte?
We were living in Concord. My mother had several brothers
Was it exciting to move from a smaller town like that?
Oh, yes, because we moved on wagons then.
Think how long it took her to get here [laughter]
We had two wagons—I never will forget this—had four horses. They left about 4:00 in the morning, and they got to Charlotte 5:30 that night. It was the latter part of September, it was getting dark. They couldn't go back home, they had to spend the night, stay over till the next morning to start back.
Who was it that brought your family over? Were they your wagons, or were they relatives' wagons?
No, they were just friends that my father knew and had wagons. I had an uncle; it was about his first car. He came to Concord and got us and brought us to Charlotte. Oh, boy, we thought that was something.
So all those wagons, you just packed up everything that your family had?
You know how they pack now, that truck and all. They just packed and didn't hurt anything.
Not many people had much back then. A bed and a cook stove's about all
they had. I know when my father got married, he said—it's funny to tell
it the way modern things is now—"I had a horse, and I had a pig, started
out getting married. My daddy give me a barrel of flour and some
chickens. That's how we started housekeeping." Starting off, that's all
the food they had start off with. Like you said, he raised that pig to
be a big hog the next year, and they a-plenty of meat. He was a farmer,
he was raised in the country. That's how he started out. He built a
three room cabin. My great-grandfather was Civil War—he was a
That was in Roanoke, Virginia?
No, that was in Franklin county, Virginia, where this happened. I wasn't born in Roanoke, Virginia; I was born in Franklin County.
He lived on a farm, but I didn't. I always lived in town. . . .
I was eleven years old too. We moved from out to Henry County, Virginia—that's Martinsville, Virginia. People talk about the good old days back then; them's was the hard old days. People really has it good now. Kids spend more money now. Just young teenagers now spend more money now than I made when I was fifteen, sixteen years old. I's work after school.
Why did your parents decide to move from the farm?
It was hard and people could make more in town. They could make a better living, unless you's a big rich farmer. Unless he had good equipment and everything, he couldn't make a good living. But we had a plenty of food to eat, but our clothes wasn't too much. We got by, but it wasn't like people ought to have.
Did your mother help your father on the farm?
She done just about everything, milk cows and look after all of us.
There was about eleven in your family wasn't it?
I was eleven in the family. We all had to work when we got big enough to
work. We couldn't lay around and play off like something was wrong with
us. He made us work. That's the way people was brought up
What kind of church did you belong to?
This here was Primitive Baptist. They usually were the "hardshell" Baptists.
What does that mean?
That religion, they believe it and don't believe in no other kind—"hardshell." They just believe in what's to be, what's going to happen to you, that's the way it supposed to be. God intended and that's the way it's going to be. I don't believe that way. I joined the Missionary Baptist Church when I was a grown man. I married my wife here, I converted to the Methodist Church. I don't believe in switching one church to another.
He says he is still Baptist, but he's joined the Methodists.
When you're raised up, I don't think that parents should think their kids are going follow what they are. Cause you got a mind to think what you want to be, whether you want to be a Baptist, or Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist or Catholic, that's the way it is now. People generally follow their parents' religion.
We had two sons. When we were married, he joined the Methodists because I was a Methodist, and both of my sons, they belonged to Methodist. One of them married a Presbyterian, and the other married a Catholic. So we're Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, and Presbyterian, all in my family. All of them's good. They worship the same God.
In that church, was there a lot of singing. Do you remember ever being frightened at a sermon?
Yeah, I was a little boy. They didn't get frightened, they got happy. They shouted. They'd sing and hug each other and all that stuff—men and women both, old people. When I was a boy, my brother would hold to me, he'd say, "George, what are they going to do? I'm scared." I said, "They ain't nothing to be scared of." They'd just get happy and shout. They was good people. That's what they knew. All they knew was hard work and go to church. They didn't have time for all this other, the wordly things like people does now, all this wordly stuff goes on.
What kind of farm did you all have?
We had a pretty good farm, 125 acres of land. A lot of it was in timber. My daddy sold a lot of timber. He cut lumber in the wintertime when he couldn't farm. That's how he made some money, and then in the summer, he'd raise crops. He'd raised just about all the food we need.
Coffee was about the only thing you had to buy.
Coffee and sugar and stuff like that. Money was hard to get hold of like I was telling you. My mother sent me and my brother to the store with eggs. We'd get all that sugar and coffee.
You'd barter the eggs for the sugar and coffee?
Yeah. There wasn't no money back then. My daddy worked for the lumber company, he'd get paid off in chips. They had the amount of money on that chip, and you'd trade that for clothes and stuff like that in a clothing store—general store like they come to, they'd have everything. They called them commissaries back then. They had everything you wanted. Didn't see much money. I never will forget the first fifty cents I'd seen when I was eleven years old.
What did you all do when you moved to the city?
We moved to Martinsville, Virginia from Franklin County.
What kind of work did they do?
There was furniture factories there—American Furniture Factory, one of the biggest in the country. A couple mills there, and a glass factory. They blowed this glass, that's how they made it. Different things, lumber companies there, all through Virginia.
Did your father work in a furniture factory?
No, he run a store. He sold the farm and he put up a store. He didn't need too much help, small store, but he liked it better than he did hard farming. He made pretty good.
How did you get to Charlotte?
That was after I got grown. That was after my family done died and passed on. I was looking around. I went around different places. I wanted to see some of the country.
Where did you go?
When I left Virginia to come here?
How old were you when you left Virginia?
I was around twenty-six.
How old were you when you went to work?
I was around sixteen. The first job I had, I worked in a soda shop. I met a lot of nice people, waiting on people, serving them lunches and drinks from the soda fountain. Met a lot of nice folks. I learned a lot from people. Lot of people come in there and get lunches from the rail office. That's the way it was. I believed I made sixteen dollars a week.
That doesn't sound too bad for back then.
I quit and job. I had a date that night on a Saturday night. He wouldn't
let me off, so I went on anyway. He wanted me to work. I come in Monday
morning, he said, "I can't use you." That's where I made
You can't take it back.
You can take it back, but it won't do no good.
Then where did you go?
Different places. Went up Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, tried it up there a while. Utica, New York, and all around.
Were you working in mills then?
Work in a mill in Utica, New York. I knew how to weave and all that stuff.
What was it like up there?
Utica, New York? It's cold up there. They don't have but two seasons - summer and winter. It's right close to the Canadian border.
Is that the first weaving that you had done?
No, I did weaving in Virginia, Danville, Virginia—Dan River Mills? I lived there a while until the home was broke up. I had two sisters that lived there. Their husbands was mill workers. I went down there and I got a job in the mill. It's just like anything else, don't take you long to learn.
Did you go in with them? Did they teach you how to weave?
They wasn't weavers. They worked in another department. One of them was
the boss and one was an employment agent. They have an employment
building there, and they hire people all the time. They work
Why did you decide to leave Danville and go to New York?
My brother was a printer and another friend, they wanted to go on up there to find out if they could make bigger money. I made a little more money up there, but it cost more for a living.
How much were you making in Danville as compared to how much you were making in New York?
I was making around twenty-seven dollars a week. That was in '37. I got to New York, I made about thirty-eight. But the expenses of living was high.
We had a nice place to stay. It was steam heat and nice big homes. The people that run the place was foreigners from England, and her husband was a music teacher. They had a whole room with library books on both sides. Anybody could study if they wanted to in their spare time. She run a nice place.
So then you got to Charlotte?
When she take you, you had to have recommendations. `Fraid of you or something. I showed her some papers, she said, "We'll take you in and try you." People didn't trust you. They don't trust you now too much. Nice place, they want nice people. That's the way it ought to be now. All these other people would be discarded out. Of course, that wouldn't be treating them right.
So did you come to Charlotte then from New York?
I come back through Roanoke, Virginia, tried to get a job there. New York, the reason I come back to Virginia, the mill had had a strike. I joined the union. Everybody had to join the union to hold a job.
Where was that, in New York?
Utica, New York. I come back there and couldn't get a job. Every job there was filled up. I wanted to get a job just most anything till I could do better. I knew I couldn't stay in New York. I had some money saved up, but I knew I couldn't stay up there long unless I got a job. So I looked for job up there; I couldn't get one anywhere else. Unemployment was just like everywhere else. You had to know the line of work; if you don't, they wouldn't hire you. So I come on back to Roanoke and stayed there a while. My brother and his wife, they wanted me to stay on, said I could get on the silk mill there. So I tried the silk mill, said they's filled up. The railroad, they had all the men they need. I couldn't get a job there, so I come on down to Charlotte. I got a job just `cause I asked for it over here.
What year was that that you got here?
That's 1940. We got married in '42. Been married ever since.
This lady, Miss Shue, she run a boarding house. That's how we got started a-going together.
Is this a house that you grew up in in Charlotte?
No, there's none but three families lived in this house. This house and the one back of me, and one down here and one right back of me, they wasn't built when the other houses were built. This was a playground. We're the third family that's ever lived in this house.
Did you live near here when you were growing up?
I lived out on the next street. North Myers Street.
You were eleven when you came to Charlotte?
Un-huh. When I moved to Charlotte, I was eleven years old. I cried because I had to leave Concord. That was my home town. We've been in this house, I'll say forty-eight years—maybe longer than that. This was my father and mother's house. After we were married, we just stayed on with them.
You wanted me to. [laughter]
The mill company down here sold these houses. My husband and I bought this one, and my father and mother stayed with me. They died in 1963. My father died the first day of November, and my mother died the fifteenth of November. The shock of my father's death caused my mother's death. My father was eighty-three and my mother was eighty-one when they passed away.
They came here and they went to work in the mill.
They worked in the mill down here.
Who took care of you and your brothers and sisters while. . . .
While mother worked? My grand-mother.
She was here too?
She came too. Then we lived out on the next street.
Did your parents work the same hours? Did they go to the mill together?
My mother worked in the spinning room and my father was overseer in the card room.
Did you visit them in the mill?
That's how I learned to spin. I'd go and help my mother, afternoon when I'd get home from school sometime. When I went to work, I worked in the spinning room, I don't know how many years. My father asked them to transfer me to the draw-in department. So I stayed there until I retired.
Did it seem like fun to go into the mills when you were a child?
Oh, yes.
Can you describe what the mill looked like?
I just didn't know what to think about it when I first went in, especially the card room, it made so much noise. Then I worked in the draw-in room. That's where you have beams, they draw those threads in to make cloth.
How old were you when you went to work full time?
I was eighteen.
Had you finished high school then?
No.
Did you want to finish high school, or was it time to go to work?
When I did start to work, I didn't want to stop.
Can you remember your first day at work?
I worked with my mother a lot. Then they just put me sparehand in the
spinning room. My mother, she retired from there. Her health got bad. So
I didn't like the spinning room then. I went to work then in the draw-in
room. I just thought I couldn't do that. My brother-in-law was foreman
down there then. The first day I worked, I was just so depressed about
the job. I didn't think I could do it. I could tell you what I did, but
you still wouldn't understand. I built harness then for the draw-in
hands. I didn't draw-in. The first day I worked on this new job after
they changed jobs—they always making something better for the
employees—I told my brother-in-law, I went up there and sit in the
office, I said, "Fred, I can't run this job." He said, "You learnt the
other job, and I know you can learn this one. You just go on back.
You're doing okay." That kind of picked me up a little bit. So I did
better the next day. It just kept on till I worked there a long, long
time.
What year was it that you went to work?
I couldn't tell you to save my life.
When were you born?
September 29, 1908.
So that was about 1926 that you went to the mill if you were eighteen.
Something like that.
Were there a lot of other young women in the mills then?
Um-hum.
Did you have fun in the mills, tell jokes?
Yeah, when we'd catch up we did.
They worked ten hours a day back then. Worked up till Saturday at noon at 12:00.
What would you all do to have fun once you were caught up?
We'd stand around and talk to one another.
Talk about your boyfriends [laughter]
What else did you talk about?
Just first one thing then the other. It's been so long, I can't recall back.
Is the place where you worked, was it hot, was it dusty?
It was kind of dusty. The spinning room was; you'd get cotton on you. [cough]
That trouble now, that's what's giving you all that trouble—bronchial trouble.
I remember one Saturday before I was married, my sister and I, we went to town. They wore black, gaberdine coats then.
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
They had those street cars out here—wasn't buses, they was street cars. We went up here to the corner to catch the bus. . . .
You mean the street car.
Yes, street car. All those people from the Johnston mill there—I said, "No wonder a lot of people were called lint heads." Because they didn't care how they looked—they got on the bus. When I got to town, I was just about covered in cotton, and my sister was too, and we still laugh about that.
You mean it got off the people to you?
The wind was blowing and it blowed that lint on us, on those gaberdine coats. We liked not to ever got those coats clean.
Did you try to clean them off once you got off the car before you went around town?
Un-huh. It was in March. I never will forget that. I know we went to church the next day, we still had some on us. We just couldn't get it off, it was hard to get off.
What was people's response of people they called the lint heads? What did that make you feel like, or make people feel like?
I worked with a woman in the mill and she was kind of grouchy. She went fixed up all the time—she looked real nice. She said that that was why so many people in the mill was called lint heads because they didn't try to fix up. They'd just say, "I'm working in the mill, I don't care how I look." She wasn't like that.
Did you try to be like that too?
Um-hum.
Do you remember—I guess this would have been pretty soon after you went
into the mill in the late 20's and early 30's—there
You know, Tessie, more work you had to do.
I never did because I worked in the draw-in room and the spinning room. I didn't run no kind of machine—well, I did when I was in the draw-in room.
You were speaking about on piece work—pick lots. I wove and I ran a loom for a while. I wove, and you got paid for the pick. They give you so much for pick—that's your cloth.
I got paid by the day on both jobs.
In other words, you didn't get that certain percentage, they wouldn't keep you. The rest of them could get it, you could too. So you had to run your own job, of course you do that anyway. But you got paid for the pick. The way it was when I first started, you got paid with the cut—a big roll of cloth on the loom. That was back years ago; that's when you got paid so much for cut. They made yard cloth. This cloth over here Highland Park where I worked, #3 mill, that was dress goods—men's, women's cloth both—dress goods. They made some nice material over here.
Was it colored cloth?
It was different colors—dress goods. It wasn't dark, it was mixed goods.
They made all kinds—dress goods for women and men. Shirt goods, women's
dresses, things like that, apron goods. They made a lot of blue
chambris, men's shirts. You know about that, they think that's nice now,
blue chambris shirts. Put them pockets on double and put that decoration
on, and overall goods the same way. I could have made a lot of money
years ago, if I'd a bought some looms, me and a boy I knew. We was going
to get us a few looms and buy the yarn and make this here overall goods.
But we found out we couldn't sell it to big companies. Nobody else
wouldn't buy
Would some people do that, get their own looms and set up in their back yards?
They'd start out in small business, small weave shed. They'd buy the yarn already . . . and they wove it into cloth. They got these designs to make all this stuff look nice, these blue chambris shirts and overalls. I knew a German guy in Roanoke, Virginia; he did that in Lynchburg, Virginia. He become fairly rich. He first started up just a poor boy. He was raised up; his family was just working class people. He knew about how to fix these looms, and he started buying a little weave shed hisself. He ordered the yarn and then he made it into cloth.
Did you know any people in Charlotte who did that, who would have their own looms in their back yards or at home?
I haven't.
I knew one. Mr. Beaver that lived up here on Thirty-Sixth Street. He had a loom down in the basement of his house. I went up there one time to see him make cloth.
You say you would help him out some time?
No, I couldn't help because I didn't know nothing about weaving.
Ain't nothing to it, it's simple.
I know when I used to go through the weave room every morning, those things knocking like that. Oh, I just . . . my ears almost—made so much noise.
Did you ever get hurt on the job or did you ever see people get hurt on the job in accidents or anything?
Yes, there was several accidents.
What kind of accidents?
They'd get scratches or hurts, have to go to the doctor, bruises.
Was there a doctor there?
No, there was a doctor though. It was a mill doctor, they called him.
Would he also come to your home?
No, you always had to take the patient to him.
Was there a nurse or anybody else there at the. . . .
Um-um.
Did you eat lunch at the mill?
Um-hum.
Did you have a lunch room or anyplace to eat?
No, we just usually eat at our table. They had a wagon that come around—hot sandwiches and things. They'd come around twice a day.
In the last years, but the first years, people didn't have nothing like that. They had to carry a lunch in a bag—eat a cold lunch.
I remember when I first went to work, it happened to be a holiday, and my mother in the spinning room. Every morning, if I wasn't in school, I'd help mother, daddy'd bring me some kind of a cold drink. Then this man, that had this, he'd get and buy crates of all kind of soda pops—Coca-Cola—he'd bring them to the mill in a bucket. I never will forget that.
Was he called the dope-boy?
He lived right in front of the mill. He'd bring those cold drinks to the mill in a bucket. He'd unfasten them and hand them to you.
Do you remember who that was?
Who was that man lived in front of the mill down there had all those girls?
I don't remember now. All I noticed was just you at that time. Before I met you, I noticed a lot of them.
Mr. Davis. That was a long time ago.
I really had my fun-my brothers and boyfriends.
What do you mean?
Back in Roanoke, Virginia, it was a nice day, and you'd go down the
street on Saturday, get off from work. I worked a bake shop there four
years. We'd get off from work—I worked long hours in a bake shop—we'd
meet our boyfriends down the street, and girlfriends. If one of them
didn't have a party at her house, the other one would. Everybody's
there, and they'd have a big supper and everything good, their mother
would. We had the best kind of time. Played post-office and all kind of
games. I reckon you know about that. That's just like, all the people
had to do back then, go to movies. They had the silent movies back then.
What they'd say was flashed on the screen, you just read all of it. My
brother and I and a girlfriend went—we was grown—there was a man sitting
in front of us, and it must have been his daughter. They just read out!
[laughter]
Do you remember any of them?
Mack Sennett comedy, they called it the "bathing beauties." They had
Fatty Arbuckle. All those good old westerns they had back then. I
admired them very much. Eddie Polo, he was the real hero of one of
ours—my brothers and sisters and other friends of mine. Ruth Roland, she
was really good. They run a continued picture. Show them at the last of
it get in trouble, you'd go back and see how they got out it in a tight
spot. Pearl White, them good old movie actors and actress. I remember
A lot of our movies is dead now, the old stars.
Did you go to movies here when you were a child in Charlotte?
We looked forward to them movies and them parties on Saturday night; I did back in Virginia. On Christmas, we'd take off a week going to parties.
The whole week. . . .
Just about, three or four days and nights. That's right, people back then, they didn't stop one day. They'll have plenty good food. You go to that girl's home that night, and they'd invite you next night somewhere else. Maybe we'd meet different people, different youngsters, boys and girls. I knew a boy one night, took a girl over to a party, and he met another girl there he liked better than this one. He'd been going with her a good while. Her brother was there a-sitting. "I tell you one thing, you better see my sister back home tonight." People didn't make much money back then, but they had a good time. It was a hard way, but people enjoyed life back then, I think; I did. I think the youngsters now is having a good time, but I don't think they enjoy it like we did, back when I was a youngster. We appreciated what we had and what we see and all, but people now, they have so much, they don't appreciate it. That's true, it really is true. Christmas now comes about every week for kids. Back then, when I was a kid, you didn't see all them goodies much about Christmas. Of course, my mother always made cookies. We had plenty apples back in the country. My daddy had all kind of apple orchards and all kind of fruits. She'd make those good cookies out of molasses and ginger and butter. You talk about cookies, I ain't never eat nothing like them.
Makes me hungry now.
They were the best cookies. My brother what's living now, two of them, we get together sometime, we talk about them cookies.
Sounds like a good topic of conversation.
They was good. They was great big cookies. Big as a almost a quart bottom for a bucket, quart cup. Sometimes, she'd put a raisin in the middle, put plenty butter in them; mother had plenty butter and milk, country. Didn't have to be saving no milk or butter, you just had plenty of it.
When you first moved to Charlotte, I guess that would have been in the mid 20's when you got here. What did the mill village look like? Did people have gardens and animals?
Oh, me, yeah. They had gardens, they had chickens, I had cows, pigs. . . .
Did you all have that?
We had cow one time, I remember in Concord when I was little. Then we had some pigs too because I remember when daddy killed one, it was a great big old thing. Heared it holler when they killed it.
Did you have animals once you lived here, or did you have a garden?
Have animals, un-uh, no.
Did you raise a garden, though?
Yeah, I used to help my father out here have a garden. That's the reason he don't understand me now, why I don't help him. I do sometime, little things.
I like gardens.
I know daddy, he always had lot of cabbage, tomatoes, cucumbers,
Did your mother can out here?
Yeah, my mother canned a lot of stuff, and I can a lot of stuff too now. I canned sixty-four pints of green beans last summer besides the tomatoes I canned, and red beets, canned a lot of those.
You've got a can of green beans for every week of the year then.
Yes, I had sixty-four pints.
When you were growing up, were your parents strict with you and your brothers and sisters, did they. . . .
They always wanted us to keep nice company.
So what did that mean?
It meant that that, it's anybody that they knew that wasn't nice, they didn't want us to have anything to do with them.
Do you remember being spanked?
My father spanked me one time. Me and my brother was fighting over a belt. It was his belt, but I wanted it, and we were fighting over it. He kind of patted me one time. That's the only licking my father ever gave me.
Did your mother ever. . . .
But my mother spanked me a lot of times.
What kinds of things would she spank you for?
She spanked me a lot because my brother and cousin used to fight a lot, and I'd try to help them out. They'd always turn on me though.
I sympathize with that having grown up with brothers.
You have any brothers?
I have two brothers. I used to get caught up in their fights too.
These were my brother and my cousin, and I'd get caught in with them.
What kinds of things were you expected to do around home to help out—chores, jobs around home before you went to. . . .
I always loved housework. I love to cook; I love to cook now when I'm able. I'm a pretty good cook, ain't I, when I'm not sick.
Have them all in here, tastes right smart. I have to do all the cleaning up the dishes and pans.
That's only fair, isn't it?
I'll tell you, I'd rather do the cooking anytime than to do all that, I'd rather had. I just hate to wash dishes. If I'm going to clean up the dishes, I want everything cleaned out of the plates—I want it clean. I don't want nothing put in the sink, I wash the glasses first, and the silverware next, and then I want the glasses. Don't mix none of that stuff. Some people pile the sink full, and you can't wash them like that. Just wash a few at a time. I always wash the glasses first, and I want all the plates cleaned out good. That-a-way, your sink won't stop up, give you no trouble much. Of course, sometimes it'll stop, it ain't got the right fall to them. Plumbers, a lot of them puts them in, they don't get the right fall to a drain line. It ain't like it ought to be, some of them. All plumbers ain't like that, but that's true. One gave you a lot of trouble all the time when you be careful with it, it's bound to be that's the trouble, ain't got the right fall to it—where it won't drain off. There's a lot to learn about everything you do.
Did you used to help out with the housework when both of you were working?
Here at home, since I been married?
Right.
Yeah, some. I always kept the boys shoes shined and going to school. I
kept them busy; I'd teach them every night to get their lessons
Did you cook then too?
No, her mother did the cooking when we was working, when they was coming up. When we left here, we knowed they was in good hands, knowed they'd be looked after.
I didn't have to worry about my children because I knew they'd be taken care of.
Who took care of them?
My mother would.
One of them went up here to Plaza School. He'd go over here to the bus
line and see if he got on the bus safe till he got big enough to take
care of hisself. He looked after both of them, they got big enough to
look after theirself. She'd put the clothes out for them—her mother—to
put on next morning and went to school. She'd always have them clean
shirts and everything, underwear, socks. I helped her out a lot. I'd
come from the store and order the groceries; the man'd deliver them back
then. They had a good grocery store up here, had everything you wanted,
good meats and all kinds of good vegetables and everything. Sometimes
I'd come by and get them and take them. If I didn't, I'd disappoint
them, and I'd take them with me. And a little stand up there sold good
hot dogs and hamburgers. Of course we going to have supper, but they'd
still want something up there; it's fixed different. We'd go in there
and get them one, what they wanted. I enjoyed that, and I enjoyed
shopping on Christmas. We'd go and shop a month before Christmas, get
things ready for them and put it away. Lay it away. Back then, I could
have paid cash, but we see something we want, we just had it laid back.
I never will forget
I know what you mean.
What I mean, you got to have a lot of money to get what you got to have.
I know people living better financially. They got all kind of appliances
in their home, like in the kitchen and push button service. I think
sometimes they got too much. That's the reason it's costing so much
money to live—that electric bill. Every time you use an appliance, I
don't care what it is, even an electric clock is costing. They say,
"Well ain't but a little bit," but all that little bit cost runs up.
I'll tell you what people needs—I hope it don't come on nobody—but
people, I think, some of them have it too easy. They don't know the
value of money. They don't know the value of a dollar—I didn't till I
got older. I didn't know the value of a dollar, what it meant. Money's
valuable; of course, money's not everything, but you've got to have
money to get what you want. I think the smartest people in this country
is the ones that come up the hardest way—that's the truth. The ones that
had everything give them and all that, they don't amount to very much.
There's some do. They take that money what their parents had left them
and make millions and
You were talking about how you really liked housework, so did you miss housework when you went into the mill to work, or had you rather have stayed home?
No, I liked to work, I liked the money, but I liked housework too.
You wanted them nice clothes, didn't you?
Did you keep the money that you made, or did you give part of it to your family?
No, I gave part of it to my family. I remember one time I worked three days, I believe. Back then you didn't make much, and I drew eight dollars.
How much did you make?
You made how much?
Eight dollars.
For three days.
I felt that was something. No, that was just for three days. So I gave it to my daddy. The next Saturday—at times they'd have to lay us off for weeks at a time—I know I was worried, I thinks, "Well, I won't have no money this Saturday." So my daddy, he kept that check from me and gave it to me the next Saturday. I had a good daddy.
I bet you was glad.
I was; I had a good daddy. It's not anything that I could say to make my father and mother any better parents than they were to me.
What about them made them such good parents?
They was just so good in every way, wasn't they George?
Yeah, they was good.
They sure was.
They was firm, but they was good. Firmness means a lot of things, discipline. Children now, the way I look at it, a lot of them disciplined and a lot of them ain't. That's the reason so many of them getting in trouble, children. . . .
My father, he loved people. He was on the gate job down here
What did you do with your money that you had to spend? Did you buy. . . .
I saved up money one time till I had seventeen dollars. This is the truth. I went to town, and I bought me a dress, and a coat, and a pair of shoes, and I believe I bought me a hat. My next door neighbor up here, at that time, she went with me. She was wanting to go get her some things, wanted me to go. I told mother, I said, "Well, I believe I'll take my money and go buy me something," and oh, I thought I was dressed up. I never will forget it, it was black and white checked coat. It was pretty, it was made pretty, and I just loved that coat.
Where would you go shopping?
We had to go all the way to town then. We'd have to ride the street cars; there wasn't no bus a-running out here then, it was street car. We'd go there. I can recall back when my children was little, they both like to go to a movie. We used to work till 3:00 on Saturday evening, and we'd come home and we'd get ready and get them ready. We'd go to town and have supper and then go to a movie, usually a cowboy picture—western, that's what they liked. I really did enjoy that, I won't never forget it because they enjoyed it too. I'd always tell them that morning that we'd go to town see a movie that night, and we would.
What other kinds of things did you do to have fun like when you were a teenager? Were there parties here in the village?
Oh yeah, there used to be parties around. We'd go to parties
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
[START OF TAPE 2, SIDE A]
You were going to tell me something about the band.
This band—I forget how many it was in it—but it was real good; everybody enjoyed it.
What kind of music did they play?
It wasn't string music, it was just horns and different instruments. I remember this particular night, they had a club [of] girls here—cooking club. We'd meet every Tuesday night or every Thursday night, so we'd used to meet on Thursday night. We was asked to cook them a supper, so we did. They had one that they were going to ask to eat supper with the band boys that night. I never will forget that. They called my name out, and I just almost fell in the floor! They had me placed sixth at the end of the table; the table, it was long as from here down the hall, I'll say—you know how long those tables are like that—with the boys on each side. I was the only girl—I really did feel honored. I just wasn't dreaming of asking me to be, but it really got away with me. I enjoyed it.
That cooking club, did you meet every week?
Yeah, we'd meet every week.
Were most of the people in that, were they young women and women who worked in the mill?
Un-huh. I know we went to Washington one time on a trip. Then we went to Baltimore and somewhere else—I forget where we went on that trip.
Who was the organizer of it?
It was Miss Eves.
Who was she?
I forget her first name, but she was a Eves. She's out here
She was the sponsor?
Yeah.
She sponsored the. . . .
Was that her job?
That was her job, but she got paid for it. The mill down here had something to do with it, see.
That was nice that they helped you all. I didn't know that.
She was out here a long time.
Were there other activities that she organized?
No, it was just cooking club.
What would you do at the cooking club?
We'd cook. They'd show us how to cook, teach us to cook.
Did you like Miss Eves?
Oh, yes, she was wonderful.
How old was she compared to how old. . . .
She was about forty-two then. I guess she's an old lady now, if she's a-living.
She must be a hundred by that time. Years ago when she was a young girl, forty-two, Tessie . . . make her around at least a hundred.
Do you remember when your mother was pregnant with your brothers and sisters? Can you remember your mother being pregnant?
I can with two of her children.
What was her attitude toward being pregnant? Was she happy, was she sad?
She's happy.
Did she seem happier then?
Um-hum.
Did she take that opportunity to tell you where babies came
Not right then, but she did later.
Did she have her children at home?
Yes.
What happened when it was time for her to have her children?
I can remember that very well. I'd take my brother and I went to my uncle's house. It's on Monday evening. My other sister, she was so small, she stayed at home. My father came after us the next day and told us that we had a little sister.
Did you know that she was going to be giving birth before you left?
Um-hum.
Is that what usually happened, the children were sent away while the. . . .
Yeah.
Did she have a mid-wife or did she have a doctor?
No, she had a doctor. Doctor with all four of her children. It was the same doctor—a Dr. King.
Did she ever have any problems during her pregnancy?
Not as I know of, she didn't.
Did she keep on working while. . . .
No, she didn't work
A lot of children went to work when they were about fourteen years old?
They might now, but they didn't then, you had to be. . . .
Back then they did, they don't now. Yeah, they went to work fourteen
years old back then. They had to weigh so much and be so tall;
I used to hear mother and daddy talk about cheap wages, what they'd make.
Were they happy with the wages, were they upset with the wages?
They wasn't upset with them because everywhere else, didn't make anymore wages than that.
I wanted more. I didn't think I earned enough because they making too big a profit off of us. I figured all of them made too much profit until the union come in. Now the union organizer helped the people in people's