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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview
H-0211, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern
Historical Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill”
Dora Scott Miller grew up in Apex, NC, and finished high school before marrying and taking a job at the Liggett and Myers Tobacco Company in Durham, where she spent nearly four decades. During her tenure there, Miller watched the company evolve into a racially integrated, unionized company. But much of this interview focuses on her experiences there before World War II, when a non-union workforce primarily consisting of black women worked long hours for little pay under white foremen. Miller and her coworkers kept their mouths shut to keep their jobs, but maintained enough strength to vote in a union when it arrived and to form a supportive community outside of the workplace. This interview should prove a rich source of information for researchers interested in southern industrial work from the perspective of an African American woman.
Dora Scott Miller reflects on the changes in tobacco factory work from the perspective of an African American woman.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
Miss Miller, what is your complete name?
Dora Scott Miller.
Where and when were you born?
I was born in Wake County, Apex, North Carolina, January 27, 1906.
Can you recall the name of your mother and father?
She was Myrtle Long before she got married, and my daddy was Vernon Scott.
Did they live in Apex also?
Yes, they was born there and reared there.
What type of work did your parents do?
Farm.
Did you own…
We owned our own farm.
Do you know if your mother's parents was involved in farming? Do you know anything about your…
No, my mother's parents wasn't involved in farming. Her daddy was a building contractor. Her mother didn't work, but my daddy's father was a big farmer. He owned two big plantations.
Did they all come from the same area?
Yeah, all of them came from Wake County—all of them born in Wake County.
How long did your grandfather on your mother's side live? Can you recall how long he lived?
He was about seventy-three, something like that when he died, and she was older because she was older than he was. She lived a few years after he died. She must have been about seventy-eight or-nine when she died.
That's interesting because many of us don't know far back in regard to grand-parents and great-grand-parents. That's very interesting. Your mother's name was Myrtle. Do you know when she was born?
I don't have a record of that now.
Do you know when she died?
She died 1927. She was thirty-eight when she died.
How old were you then? Do you recall?
When my mother died? I was twenty years old. She died in October, and I would have been twenty-one in January.
So you have some impression about your mother?
Yeah.
What type of person was she?
My mother was a very lovable person, very lovable person.
In regard to the family, since you lived on a farm, who was really the backbone of the family when you were growing up?
My father.
Your father was. How many brothers and sisters did you have?
Didn't have no brothers, just five girls.
A house full of girls. Were you the youngest or the oldest?
I'm the oldest.
What was your responsibility being the oldest girl? You said you were about twenty when your mother died, therefore…
I was married when my mother died.
What age did you marry?
Nineteen.
Were you living with your…
No, I was living here. I came here when I got married.
Let's go back to the farm that you were living on.
As we got old enough, we went out to help on the farm. Our chores was to help like choppin' cotton and tobacco—we had cotton and tobacco. We grew both on our farm. Then we helped pick cotton and then we worked in the tobacco in the housin' time to curin' and all that.
Did your father acquire the farm from his father?
No, he worked it out himself. My daddy went to New York and worked for $1.00 a day, and they raised him to a $1.25 a day—not a hour, but a day! And saved money—I think he said he gettin' about $1.50 then in the later years—he stayed up there three or four years. The people didn't come back like they do now. And stayed up there all that time, and when he came back, he bought a farm and married my mother.
When was this? When did your father buy the farm?
I was born in 1906; he married my mother in 1904. He bought this farm about, must have been 1902 or 1903.
Who did he buy it from? Do you know?
Yes, the man was named Mr. Johnson.
Was he a white…
Light man, he was a Mr. Johnson.
How many acres was this that your father owned?
Seventy-four and five-tenths.
That's very good. Is it still in control of the family?
No, we sold it.
You were brought up on a farm, your father was the backbone of the
family… In reference to your family, since there were
Yes, my family was very religious.
What did you do on Sundays?
Went to church and Sunday School—that's about all there was to do at that time.
What type of religious affiliation were you brought up under?
My daddy, all of us children was Baptist; my mother was Christian. She belonged to the Christian church. They allowed us to join where we preferred.
When you were growing up in Apex, do you recall any kind of racial strife in the time period in which you were growing up?
No, we didn't have any strife or that. My people was known as "free Negroes" on both sides. We would have some problems with the opposite Negroes. Goin' to school at times, the "free Negroes" would have problems with the Negroes that wasn't called "free Negroes." All our parents was supposed to have been never under slavery. They was called "free Negroes."
Your father's name was Scott, and they were free Blacks.
My mother, her daddy had a white mother and a Black father, which they was married. They didn't marry a-force. His mother raised him up till he got to a big boy, and then his father took him and raised him.
All this was taking place in Apex?
Un-huh. He was born in Chatham County, but he was reared in Wake County. He was born in Chatham County, my mama's father was, but he was reared in Wake County.
Your parents related this to you as you grew up?
Yes.
Were Blacks living close or farther apart?
Well, we lived close. It was a very close settlement. We were surrounded by white people, and they were very nice neighbors. We had a neighbor which was Seagroves. We worked with them. We helped them house tobacco and they'd help us. He had his farm; we lived right next farm to him. We was housed in by white people—the Wilsons on one side, the Rhodes on another, and the Seagroves on another, and we was sittin' in between.
Did you ever play with white children?
Played with the white children. Yeah, we played with them, and one of the boys is real sick now. He's from November to January older than I am, and he lives out in Apex now; he runs the fillin' station there. He's a Seagroves—Walter Glenn Seagroves. His oldest sister, she lost her husband a few weeks back. Her name was Esther. One of the sisters, they live in Apex still, but then the baby boy, he lives on the farm right on. He built him a new house 'fore his mother and daddy died. His name John —he just retired from the post office in Apex back here last year. The younger girl, she lives in Southern Pines. She married and went to Southern Pines.
So you still keep in contact with your…
Yeah, we stay in contact. When the mother died, we went—my sister and I—we went down there that night when they had the wake. They came back from the funeral home, we went to the house to see them all.
What time did you get up on the farm?
Well, at times we got up, like they housin' tobacco or somethin' like that, we had to get up very early in the mornin', maybe around 4:30 or 5:00 when we'd be housin' tobacco.
Was that a very rough job? Was it hard for a woman?
It was hard then, much harder than it is now. Yeah, it was hard.
And there were all girls?
Yeah. My daddy kept a hired hand. He had two horses, kept a hired boy by the month. Paid him thirty dollars a month—that sounds like a whole lot of money—thirty dollars a month and board. He's a preacher now, and he lives in Raleigh.
What about education, since you had to work in tobacco…
We were at school. We had to go to school—that was a must.
Was it a type of school that stayed open throughout the year?
No, it didn't stand open the whole year. When I first went to school, we didn't have about five months school, and went from that to six months; it eventually got to seven. I didn't never go for seven months in my whole life.
How far did you go?
I finished high school.
Throughout your educational experience, what would you say was a factor that tended to motivate you to get an education? Was it a teacher, or was it your parents?
It was really my parents and one teacher I had. She was a girl that
worked her way through school, and I can't never forget her.
She would always encourage me to tell me, "Be sure to get a
education," cause she had worked her way through school. Her
name was Maude Lambert. She died with cancer about two years ago in
Raleigh hospital. She was gettin' up some years, because she
was older than I was. She died in Raleigh hospital with cancer about two
years ago, and she had married by then. She was named Maude Lambert. She
would tell me about what a
What was the name of the school? Do you recall the school that you attended?
Yes, Apex Elementary School. The Methodists had a high school at that time which was a boardin' school—
You mentioned earlier that you came to Durham when you were about twenty.
No, I got married at nineteen and came to Durham.
What year was that? Do you recall?
I got married October 24, 1925.
You immediately came to Durham with your husband.
Um-huh.
What is your husband's name?
Garland Jones was my first husband.
How did you meet him?
I met him through friends with my sister. My sister introduced me to him.
What about his background? Was his parents involved in farming?
Tenant farmers. They came out of Granville County.
So your first husband was also a farmer?
Yes, he was reared on a farm.
What did he do for a livelihood?
After he came here?
Right.
Worked for American Tobacco Company.
Did you have any children from your first marriage?
No.
Did your husband die?
No, we're divorced.
When did you marry your…
Married him June 5, 1960.
Your first husband, Mr. Jones, both of you were working in the factory. When did you start working in the factory?
I went to work in the factory, January 19, 1925.
What type of job…
I worked some on the buttin' machine.
A buttin' machine?
A buttin' machine'd cut the butts off of the tobacco.
How much were you paid?
Twenty cent a hour.
You worked from what…
Worked from 7:00 to—we made nine hours a day—went to work at 7:00, nine hours a day, twenty cent a hour.
Did you have any breaks like lunch?
Yes, we had lunch period.
How long was that?
Thirty minutes.
Did you have any other breaks in the time?
Yes, we had to go to the rest room.
You could just go on your own if you wanted.
No, we didn't go on our own. We had somebody to relieve us to go.
Did you have to ask a foreman?
No, they'd come around and ask you permission when you got ready to go.
Who's they?
They have a extra lady to do that.
In the area that you worked the butting machine, were they all women working?
On the buttin' machine it was, but men put the work up for us—they put the tobacco up for us. We had to feed it on this machine, and a woman cut the butts off of it. We put it on a conveyor.
So you worked for nine hours.
Twenty cent a hour.
Do you recall what other jobs women were doing in the factory?
Yes, they had machines. They had stemmin' machines—I worked on the fourth floor. They had stemmin' machines on the third floor, and they had another department on the second floor. Women worked on all them floors. They had hand stemmers, they had all that.
Did black and white women work together?
No, no white. They had white men as foremans.
So what were the white women doing?
White women worked in the cigarette department. You didn't have but a very few white women at that time; they worked across the street in the cigarette department.
You said only a very few. Is that because they didn't need…
No, they just didn't have but a few white ones workin' at that time. Now, most of it is white.
In reference to the job you had to do, did you stand up?
You had to stand up all them hours.
Stand up at the machine?
All them hours, except when you went to have that little break to go to the rest room and thirty minutes for lunch, you had to stand up.
Did you ever get tired?
Yep, we got tired. But it was just as if you hadn't gotten tired. You had to work right on.
Do you recall any women that might have worked around you, or maybe you, that probably had fatigue, fainted…
They didn't faint. Sometimes, we worked this burly tobacco
which comes out of Kentucky which is very strong. Like times, you can go
by the factory now and smell some real strong tobacco. At times, some of
them'd get sick on that; they'd get sick on that
and have to go to the dispensary. But other than that, they
didn't; they didn't
That is a good point. Did you have to wear a certain uniform?
No, not when I first went there; you wore just what you had. Some few years later, they came in with uniforms and the company gave you three uniforms.
The women who worked in the cigarette side, I think you said were white women. Did they make more than you did?
Yes! Dollars and dollars more than we made.
Why was this?
At that time, we didn't have a union. I worked with the union
when it first started. When they started the first union, that was in
'34. They started the first union—I helped write
up.
Did you ever get a raise?
I didn't get no raise from '25 till '33 when Roosevelt came in.
Did you ever ask for one.
Well, at that time, you didn't ask. You didn't have nobody to go to face the man for you. You didn't ask like that like you would now for a raise. But when the union came about, that's when they begin the raise. The department I was in, they raised us from twenty cent to twenty-five, and the girls that fed the stemmin' machines, they got thirty cents which was a ten cent raise. We got a five cent raise in the department I was in.
You're saying that women that were on the stemmery machine was making twenty cents an hour?
They was making twenty cents to start with—twenty cents an hour. The hand stemmers weren't making but about six or eight cent a pound for stemmin'.
When you started working in 1925, machines were already here?
Yeah, they were already there. They moved in that plant in
'24. When I went to work, they was all—Liggett and
Meyers and the American Tobacco Company years ago used to be in the same
company—they split up. That was before I went to work there.
In '24, they moved into that building, and I went to work
there in '25, and that's when they put them
stemmin' machines and things in. But they was in
Can you tell me about the relationship between you and the foreman? Did black women have a nice or cordial relationship between…
Well, we had one of the toughest was the boss. He was a one-eyed fella named George Hill. He was tight! He was out of South Carolina, and he was tight. I mean tight! He'd get on top of them machines—they had a machine that altered the tobacco—he'd get on top of that machine and watch you see if you was workin' all right and holler down and curse.
He would curse in your presence?
Curse and we workin'. That's what we had to undergo. Holler down and say, "D … go to work!" "GD … go to work there; you all ain't doin' nothin'"
And you said nothing?
Nothing. No, you didn't say anything. You said anything, you went out.
Do you recall any problems black women might have had in regard to any women who might have gotten fired?
Oh yes, quite a few of them got fired. Then he had some pets. A girl right over here on Roxborough Street was one of his pets. She livin' there now.
What you mean by "picks?"
His "pets"—had some pets.
What did they receive?
Give them a break, didn't work them hard like he did the rest of them.
Why did some of the women get fired?
He just didn't like them and said they weren't
doin'
For no reason, he would just say, "You got to go."
Yeah, he just tell them they had to go and that was it. Sometimes he send you home for two or three days, and then sometimes he'd fire you. Weren't nobody to take up for you, but when the union came about, you had shop stewards. They'd take your case to the foreman and discuss it. That's what I did; I was a shop steward.
While working in the factory in the 20's and 30's, were you ever given any type of benefits?
Nothing. Nothing but just a little insurance and that was—when you pay, that's when you passed. We didn't have no hospital insurance. Hospital insurance didn't come about till some years later. No benefits, nothing but just a little insurance when you was deceased. I think got around three or four hundred dollars to start with. It's now up in the thousands.
Do you recall pregnant women working in the factory?
Yes, pregnant women worked in the factory. This child what singing, right now her mother got crooked feet—Shirley—her mother used to work up there pregnant. She carried Shirley workin' right up there in that factory.
Shirley Ceasar's mother worked up there.
Mother—with them crooked feet. Yeah, they worked up there, but they wouldn't let them work long. Soon as they found out you was pregnant, you had to quit.
So that means a pregnant woman, unless she kept it disguised…
Kept it disguised, she couldn't work; they put you out.
Now would she be able to be re-hired back?
Yes, they'd take them back if they felt like it. If they didn't, they didn't take them back. If they liked them, they'd take them back; if they didn't like them, they didn't take them back.
Did you ever receive any type of vacation time?
No, no vacation was even mentioned. The foremans all had vacation; nobody else got no vacation. It was years—way over in the 30's—before they begin havin' vacation. When they first started, they closed down for a week. Then after that, they would let you have a vacation. You'd put in for your vacation and get so many days later. Everybody wouldn't go at the same time, 'cause they didn't close the plant down.
In the 20's and 30's, you began working on the butt machine. Did you ever work on anything else?
Yes I did. I worked on stemmin' machines too later.
Which is the hardest type of work?
The stemmin' machine's the hard part.
What do you do on the stemming machine?
You had to feed tobacco—untie it and feed it—and it goes up and pulls them stems out of it, the machine pulls the stems out of it. You had to do it so fast. You push it up under there.
Was the tobacco heavy? I'm sure it was dusty and nasty to work with or was it cleaned before you start working with it?
No, it used to be dusty. In the early years, it was dustier, but in the later years, science come along and there'd be different ideas. They got it so it weren't so dusty, but it was dusty early years.
What would be the hardest thing about being a woman tobacco worker in the 20's and 30's? The physical work of it or was it the emotional strain of working? What was the condition like being a black woman?
The emotional strain was on them hand stemmers, 'cause they was just like this, they shut their body—emotional. That was the hand stemmers; they went just like this here all day long. They had to do so much 'cause they got paid by the pound. Emotional strain was on the hand stemmers; they weren't gettin' about eight cent a pound. They had to get so many pounds, then the man would fire you.
Do you recall how many pounds you ever…
I never hand stemmed.
You worked with the machines?
Un-huh.
Why were some women given certain jobs and some women were given other jobs?
Well, at the time, they didn't have a employment office as
they have now. They just started that after World War II. The first man
they put in there was Mr. Perry. He was a foreman—I was
workin' under him at the time when he went into service in
World War II—he came back, they opened up the employment
office and a personnel department. They didn't have all that.
That was after World War II. At the time when I was hired, somebody
would take you up there and recommend you to the foreman, and
that's how I got on that particular floor. My
cousin—her name Beatrice Harrington. She lives in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania now. She's younger than I am, but she was
workin' in the factory—she'd take me to
the factory and recommend me to the foreman. She was
sweepin', and I was makin' more money
Was it because of the physical built of a woman that you got a certain job?
No, that's where they'd place you at. If you went to a certain floor, you went and stood up side the wall, man come there and pick you out.
What was basically the age of women that worked in the factory?
Some earlier years, some children used to come in—that was before I went there, earlier—some of them used to go in and help their mothers stem, but that didn't happen after I was there, 'cause you had to be past sixteen.
So there was a rule about age?
A rule, yeah. Early years, the children used to go in after school and help their mothers stem, but at the time when I went there, you had to be past sixteen.
Women like to talk together. Did women ever get together and talk about certain things that might have have happened on the job?
Yes, we'd do that.
Can you recall some of the conversations?
Yes, we'd talk about the job. We know we weren't treated right, but there was nothing we could do about it—weren't a thing in the world we could do about it, 'cause there weren't no go-between.
In reference to Durham in the 20's and 30's, was working as a tobacco worker maybe one of the best jobs?
Yes, it was a good paying job.
Where did you live in Durham?
I lived over in what's known as East Durham.
Within that community that you lived, were any of the women
Yes, quite a few was employed in tobacco. Course people working out, maids didn't make nothing much. Some of them didn't even get—not but one made six dollars a week out there. A maid, she was making some money.
How long did you work for Liggett and Meyers?
I went to work Liggett and Meyers in '25. I came out the same day Kennedy got shot; that was '63 wasn't it—October '63.
If somebody asked you, "Describe conditions in the tobacco factory in the 20's and 30's," what would you say?
It was bad, but it was the best you could do, and the most money you could make.
If you had children, and they were in the age range of sixteen or older, would you let them work in tobacco?
Now, so much is different. Now, we get so many college graduates around in the factory now with good jobs. We have so many black foremans and black people just got them higher up jobs. Black girl sitting in the office, black girls sitting everywhere around there now.
In the 20's and 30's, did you have facilities for eating?
Yes, we had facilities for eating.
You had a cafeteria?
We had a cafeteria.
What about for an injury on the job?
Yes, we had a dispensary.
Was it staffed?
Yeah, we had a lady in there.
Was she black or white?
Black.
Did they have separate facilities?
Yes, they had separate. Over there on the other side, the white ones had a RN, and we had a LPN.
They had a separate cafeteria?
Um-hm, they had a separate one. Now they all eat together.
Do you ever recall not working on a particular day or staying out of work, and was the reason ever related to working at the factory? Did you ever stay out of work?
Yes, I've stayed out some, but not no injury or nothing from work.
You were just tired?
Un-huh. Sometimes I'd stay out tired.
Did you ever work on weekends?
Yes, we worked on Saturdays till noon.
Did you get overtime?
No overtime. No overtime didn't come till Roosevelt's day. No overtime. Still made that twenty cent a hour.
Working in the factory among women, did you develop a type of close relationship among women working with you?
Yes, as it is in any place. It was little groups like too, cause everybody had their own friends. You're not friendly to everybody, 'cause there was a time when some people was bad in the factories, and you'd almost be afraid of them.
What do you mean?
They used to fight.
Fight in the factory?
Un-huh.
Women or men?
They fight each other. Women and men would fight.
For what reason?
Just get in arguments and fight.
Right in front of everybody and just fight?
Un-huh, then they got fired. You had to kind of study your people to keep away from those people. Some of them you'd be afraid to say anything to or around them because they'd snap you up or something.
I know you mentioned that the supervisors and the foremen were white. Do you know of any other incidents other than supervisors making very nasty remarks to women—other incidents that you felt was not…
Yes, it happened several times. Those things happen.
How did you feel?
Well, you couldn't feel good over it. You couldn't feel good whatsoever.
Did you ever talk about your experiences with your husband when you came home? Did he ever give you a reaction?
Sometimes I would and sometimes I wouldn't, because we never discussed our jobs too much to each other. I'll tell you, when you discuss your job, sometimes it make you tired when you get home. When I leave my job, I like to leave the job. I've never been a person to bring my job home.
You say you went to work at what time?
Seven o'clock in the morning.
And you'd get off about what?
We made nine hours.
Did working in the factory affect your social life?
No, it didn't affect mine. You had to press hard. You had to
press very hard. Cause a lot of people would classify people that worked
in the factory, and you had to press hard to keep your character up by
working in the factory at that particular time. But
What you mean somebody would classify you?
They said that nobody worked in the factory but bad people.
Was this due to certain…
Certain people was bad, and that would leave a mark on the good ones.
Wasn't a majority of black people working in the factory?
Everything was black practically.
Let me go back to working along with black women in the factory. When there were problems of death in the family or sickness, did black women that you worked along with, did they show any type of support?
Oh, yes, they did. We always did that. We'd always visit each other, and we had a very close communication with each other like that. Then we'd always solicit money for floral designs for funerals and all that. They always did that and still do.
What church did you attend in Durham?
Union Baptist.
Within that church that you attended, were there a lot of black women that worked in the factory also?
Yes, there was quite a few. Numbers and numbers of them.
Were these women active in the church also?
Yes, very active. I was 'cause I was a usher at that time.
So you retired from the factory in '63.
No, I didn't retire from there. I retired—they terminated the plant what I was in. They terminated that plant, and I went to work in a dry cleaning plant doing seamstress work.
When they terminate you, you did get benefits?
Yes, just a small amount I get every month.
You mentioned you were a union leader in the factory. You mentioned that the union began in 1934. Why was the union started?
Well, we had different speakers come from different places come to speak to us. They'd invite people to come in—groups of people—so that they'd discuss the union to them. We met in the old Wonderland Theatre building, down where they had they had the first meetings at. Later, a few years, they had a union hall. They bought this nice place down on Roxboro Street. That was a year. They'd scramble around everywhere upstairs in them holes and everywhere till they got and built this nice place. Of course, the urban renewal got that. Then, the last few years, the two unions a-merged. One-ninety-four went in with 208, black and white together, but formerly, 194 was black and 208 was white.
How active were black women in the union to begin with?
Just a few black women. Two black women that was there was the shop stewards—myself and Mrs. Marie Macmillan.
How many floors did black women work on at the factory? You only had two shops in it.
We had three floors, but women worked on them, and on one floor weren't nothing worked on it but men.
So the leadership of the union in '34 was dominated by the males?
Un-huh. The women didn't come in till later. They worked in the union, but wasn't no women shop stewards till later. Marie Macmillan, she was one of the first ones, then I was the second one.
What is the role of the shop steward again?
When you have problems. You have a problem on your job, you feel like you
haven't been treated right or something. Sometimes the
foreman'll say, "You're not doing a good
job." He'll go to the shop steward. Then you have to
go talk to this person and find out
What was the reaction of management toward the whole idea of the union?
They didn't care for it, but they eventually accepted it. At first, they didn't want to accept it. In Roosevelt's time, he advocated unions, and we finally got it through. We got our union and got it organized and everything, and they had to accept it.
Were there any strikes that you can recall?
The cigarette factory strike and truck drivers. They struck in '38.
What were the grievances? Why were they striking?
I can't recall exactly, because I didn't work in that department. They struck—that was 208—the truck drivers, they was in a union, but it's different one from 208.
The truck drivers and cigarette workers in '34. The cigarette workers were white and black?
Just a few blacks. Weren't but a very few blacks worked over there in that time. Everything over there was white.
The majority of the cigarette workers were white?
Yeah.
How about the truck drivers?
They were white. They just got some black truck drivers recently.
So whites were striking?
Yeah, whites struck.
What was the feeling of blacks?
We had to come out too, 'cause the truck drivers
didn't
It's unusual where the strike began. The conditions you were working under were very hard and paying less. The cigarette workers were making more and many of them were white.
They made much more.
The truck drivers were white, and they decided to strike.
They struck, and we had to come out too—truck drivers were in the teamsters union.
Why didn't the whole idea of a strike begin among blacks?
Our union wasn't strong enough at that particular time to strike.
The benefits that occurred as a result of this strike also filtered…
We got some benefit from it.
What benefits did you get?
We got a few pennies in our raises. At that time, our union wasn't strong enough. Being a black union, it took it a little longer to get the strength that the white one did have.
What about the leadership of the union? What type of person was chosen as President?
We had some very, very good leaders. After the union
Were the individuals you picked as leaders, were they younger, were they older?
Well, they wasn't young. I would say middle age. The majority of them was good Christian leaders—church people—were supposed to have been trustworthy.
Were they outstanding in the community?
Outstanding in the community, yes.
All the individuals who held offices in the union were males?
Yeah, except we two women. We were the only two women. They had some secretaries, but not no shop stewards.
Why do you think you were chosen as a shop steward?
They had a vote. The girl died ain't been too long ago—Amanda Wallace—she was the one that offered me for her committee for the shop steward.
That meant that everybody in the union voted for the shop steward?
Voted for me. Whoever got the highest number of votes, that's the one won.
What type of relationship did you as a shop steward have with the management?
I had good relationship with them. They respected me highly, very highly. I always tried to carry myself in a way before I became shop steward that I would be respected then. Even after I became shop steward, then I still had my respect with them. They respected me high as I could expect.
Tell me about some of the grievances that black workers would bring to you since you were a shop steward. What were some of the complaints?
Sometimes they feel like they hadn't been honestly dealt with; they was overworked at times and put too much on them. Maybe one person would be out, and they have to do two people's job or something like that. Sometimes they'd come to you with something that wasn't any good.
Do you recall what complaint that you'd probably work at for a long time and you did go to the management and you did receive some type of … you were quite successful in trying to remedy some of the complaints?
I didn't never have any complaints that bad that it took me a long time to straighten them out.
How did you deal with a complaint?
I would talk to the person, then I would go to the foreman and talk with
him. Then we'd get together and go to the office. I would
talk to each individual, and then we'd take it to the
office—the floor office, not the main office—and
we would talk individually, two or three, whichever was involved.
Whoever was in the office, they had to go out 'cause
everybody didn't sit there and listen to what you had to talk
about. So whoever was the timekeeper, whoever was in the office sit
there and listen to what you had to say. So whoever was involved was the
one what did the talking. Whatever your case was, you didn't
talk it over with nobody else. If you had a problem, I didn't
go back and tell the other person what it was. If I worked that problem
out, me and this individual, I'd tell them to keep your mouth
shut, since I worked it out. One thing I had, I saved a boy once. I
thought I was going to lose him. You
You could be fired because of that?
Yeah, you could be fired—even now! They'll fire you now. They give you a pack a day. You're not to be caught with no other brand. Better not let them catch you in the store buying no other brand. They catch you in the store, report it and everything.
Do you recall a complaint that you dealt with and it didn't turn out the way you wanted it to turn out.
Yes, I've had some problems with things that didn't turn out exactly like I wanted it to. But, it wasn't no bad cases. I never had anything that was too bad. We had some men shop stewards too that worked with me. Sometimes I'd get a case that be kind of tight, and I would call on a man to help me, to go in with me. The chairman of the shop stewards, I'd call him in with me when something's real tight. I had just one foreman; he worked on the first floor. He just couldn't stand women; no women worked down there. I had to go down there on my job at that particular time; I was carrying papers all over the building. Every hour I had to carry papers to him. He couldn't stand a woman to do nothing for him.
Were you allowed this freedom to roam around and talk with individuals while you were supposed to be working?
No, you didn't walk around and talk with them like that unless
something happen. No, that was my job. I had to carry papers each hour
and tell how much tobacco, how many thousands pounds you run.
What was that job called?
Really, I can't say what that job was called. I don't know what if they even named it.
So you got that job later?
Later, un-huh.
What other types of jobs would you work in? You said but, you were on the stemming machine, you were taking papers around.
That's about all I did. I checked lines, and all that. I learned to do quite a lot. I helped them do the figuring, me and another girl—Marion Stewart what died, her mother—myself, we kind of used to run around with papers. We'd run all around outdoors and everywhere to different places carrying papers.
What were the union dues?
It was twenty-five cents when you first started.
A week?
Twenty five cent a month.
How many of the workers became members of the union?
We had about 94 percent. At one time, we probably had a little more than that, but some people gets kind of weak. We had a little more than 94 percent one time. I would say we had around 94 percent.
Were there any other strikes? I think you mentioned that there was one in '34.
No, that's the only one.
That was the only strike that you can recall?
That's the only one.
And blacks never got together for any type of changes?
The strike didn't affect us. The only thing was, we had to be out because the trucks didn't run. We didn't strike, but if the trucks didn't run to bring the tobacco into us, we couldn't work.
Were the conditions better working in the factory in '34?
Yes, the conditions were better.
They were better now?
Yeah.
Why? Because the union was there?
Well, the union was established and also when Roosevelt came in. We got President Roosevelt in, everything brightened up. The conditions began to get better then.
So you sensed some of the results of the strike? They did take place…
We had some effect from it, I mean some benefits. Those white girls drew so much more than we did. We'd go down to Belk's store to cash checks. They had a place in the basement, and we'd go down there and cash checks. You'd see they check, and it'd make your heart stop beating almost.
Wouldn't that be a reason to strike, if you weren't making anything?
Well, you weren't strong enough to get up there, just
weren't strong enough. It takes strength. It takes some
strength to get up. That didn't come about—I tell
you we worked for a long time—that didn't come
about till integration. It didn't change until integration.
When the integration came about, then the black women
You mentioned that the black union did not strike because you weren't strong enough. What does it take for a union to be strong?
Our people didn't stick close enough together. One thing, they would pay the money, then we just didn't have the strength. You have to have a whole lot of strength to get up there to strike.