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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview
H-0273, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern
Historical Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill”
Johnnie Jones started working at the Pomona Terra Cotta Factory in Greensboro, N.C., when he was fourteen, doing odd jobs despite the objections of his father, an employee there. Jones spent his career in the factory, applying his keen mechanical mind to making sewer pipes and performing maintenance. In this interview, Jones describes some of his experiences at the factory, including some of the details of his tasks, workplace accidents, the arrival of unions, and his relationships with his fellow employees. Jones is an interesting character with a great deal of confidence in his problem-solving ability. Researchers may find useful material in his description of the terra cotta production process and the portrait Jones paints of himself.
Johnnie Jones remembers his fifty-year career at the Pomona Terra Cotta Factory in Greensboro, N.C.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
I thought we would just start out and just talk a little bit about your early days around here. Your name is Johnnie Jones? Is that your full name?
That's right, that's right: Johnnie Jones.
When were you born?
1904.
What was your birthday?
The twenty-eighth day, tomorrow. What's the date, Friday? Today's the twenty-seventh? Tomorrow.
Tomorrow is your birthday?
That's right.
So you're going to be seventy-two years old?
Seventy-two years old tomorrow.
I didn't realize I was coming here on your birthday. Well, this is a nice day to talk then about what life has been like around here. Were you born in Greensboro?
No, I was born in Chatham County; came here when I was a little ol' baby.
Where in Chatham? Do you know?
Pittsboro, yes that's right.
And when did you move to Greensboro?
Well I couldn't tell you that, 'cause I was just a little baby when I came here.
OK. But you've lived most of your life, then, in Greensboro?
All my life, yes.
Can you tell me something about your parents or grandparents? Did you know your grandparents?
None of them but my Grandaddy was all I knowed. That's the only one I knowed was my grandfather.
What did he do? What was his name?
Heyward Jones.
Can you tell me something about him?
Well no. The only thing I can tell you about him is that he just rented corn. That's all I could tell you about him.
Did he live in Chatham?
Yes, he lived in Chatham.
And what did he do there? Did he have a job there or anything?
Farmed was all I could tell you; as far as I know, farmed. See, I never was around him, only when he came up here—and he was an old man then.
I see. Did he ever talk about old times back in Chatham County, or anything about his parents, or anything like that?
No he didn't; as far as I know he didn't. Now of course he and my daddy done a lot of talking, but as far as talking to me he didn't do that.
He didn't tell you any old stories?
No, I was too little, I reckon, to realize what he was talking about.
Right. Well then, tell me something about your parents. What was your father's name?
Young Jones—James Jones, rather.
And what was your mother's name?
Addie Jones.
Do you know her maiden name? Do you know what her name was before she… ?
Crutchfield; she was a Crutchfield.
Were they both from Chatham County?
That's right.
And was your father a farmer before he came up here?
No, he worked at a sawmill, he told me. Said he used to walk five miles a day and back to go to work. And finally—I'll tell you what he told me—he told me he had to take care of his mother and his father. That's what he told me a good while ago:the reason that he had to go there is that he had to go and get something to eat for them, because they were both old, as far as I can remember.
Then he worked at the sawmill when he was in Chatham County?
That's right.
Around Pittsboro?
Yes.
Why did he move here to Greensboro?
Well, he thought he could find some work up there to do. I think his mother died; and his father, I don't know whether he married again or not. He was just staying around down there, and every once in a while he'd come up here and hang around up here awhile, and then go back.
So your father then came up here to find work?
That's right.
Were there many other people in the family besides you?
Well, I had two sisters.
What were their names?
One was named Katy Beatrice and the other one was named Lessie Jones.
So the whole family moved up here at the same time?
No, the rest of them were born up there.
Oh, OK; so you're the oldest?
No, the oldest one's dead, my sister; she's dead.
What was her name?
She died in March, this last March.
Which one was that?
That was Katy; that was my oldest sister.
I see. What job did your father take when he came up here?
Well, when I knowed anything he was firing the kiln; he fired kiln over there.
Oh, he worked at Pomona?
Yes, worked down there at that plant.
I see. Did he work there all his life?
Yes, worked down there 'til he retired. He retired … let me see, I don't know when he retired; I forgot now. But he retired about eight or ten years ago.
Is he still living?
No, he's dead now; him and my mother are both dead. Let me see, one, two. My father, my mother, my three sisters and one brother dead.
Oh, you had a brother also?
Yes; I got three brothers living now—yes, three brothers
OK, so how large a family was your family? You had two sisters?
No, I had five sisters. Let me see: Katy, Nanny—I left Lessie out; we called her Nanny—Katy, Louise, Nanny, Louise and Beulah. Five sisters dead.
And how many brothers?
One: one brother dead.
Right. How many did you have altogether?
Eleven of us. In the family? Eleven of us.
So five sisters and six boys?
That's right.
OK. That's a big family. Did you all go to work at Pomona?
Well yes, every one of them worked there awhile. Some of them quit and go somewhere else. Yes, all of them worked there.
Can you tell me something about the first house you remember living in?
Yes. It was down on the job, a little old red … a little old house painted red. Let me see, how many rooms did that house have to it: one, two, three, four, five, six. Six rooms.
Was it a frame house?
Frame house, yes.
Was it a company… ?
Yes, a company house, paying twenty-five cents a week rent. That's what they paid.
For a room or for the whole house?
For the whole house: no light bill, water bill or nothing to
Take it out of your paycheck?
Yes.
So that was after they built the new houses?
Yes, that's right.
How about in that old house? The whole family lived in that six room house?
Well, no, not the whole family. See, after they moved I think there were three or four born after then. I disremember how many it was though, but it was three or four born after then.
Where did the little children play around?
Anywhere: out in the yard, roamed anywhere, any field, anywhere. There wasn't no playground nowhere.
No? Were there a lot of children for you to play with when you were younger?
Well, yes, right smart of them, right smart of children. But I never did too much playing with children nohow.
Why not?
I was always doing something, building something, or working on
Oh really?
Yes.
Like what? what kind of things did you like to build?
Bird houses; build something like a boiler or something; try to fix something to hold some steam; messing around like that. I'd run a chimney way out here; I'd have my furnace here and my chimney way out. I was always messing around, digging and doing stuff: building tents and everything. I always liked to plunker with stuff: tearing up clocks and putting them back together.
I see. So you were sort of like a mechanic when you were little?
That's right.
Did you go to work with your Dad much?
No. When I first started to work, I belive I was thirteen years old. See, I quit school after school was out. I'd quit school and go work 'til school'd start again; then I'd go back. Never asked for a job; I ain't never asked nobody for a job, just go ahead over there and go to work. Every morning my Daddy would send me back home and say I was too little to work. Well I'd go over there and mess around, and frequently I'd go on to work. "What are you doing here?" I'd tell him, "I'm working," and that's all there was to it.
Really?
Yes.
What kinds of jobs would you do?
Well, I'd done some of everything there. I fired the kiln, I
fired the boilers, I worked in dry pan (that's where they
grind that
What do you do there?
Just keep things fixed up; break-downs, get them fixed up.
Before we get into Pomona I just wanted to ask you a couple of other things about your house. Did your mother work also?
No.
She didn't work?
No. After we growed up, yes, she worked in the cotton mill awhile; after we growed up, worked there a year or two.
Which cotton mill?
Pomona Cotton Mill, over there where Western Electric is. She worked over there awhile.
Was that unusual, for a black woman to work in the cotton mill?
That's right.
There weren't many…
No, there wasn't too many over there, but some: right smart too. I don't know how many, but a bunch of them over there.
Did all the people who lived in your neighborhood all work over at Pomona?
No, some of them didn't work at all.
How did they get by?
Well darned if I know;just strived somehow, I don't know.
Did your family have a garden?
Yes, they'd always have a garden: corn, beans, cabbage, beets;
Oh, the company did that?
Yes, planted you the field and all.
Did you keep any animals around the house? Any chickens?
No, nothing but some chickens and my cow.
You had a milk cow?
Yes. Hogs: raised some big hogs, four and five hundred pound hogs.
Your father did? Your parents?
Yes. That's the reason I don't like ham today.
Why?
Eat too much ham and chicken. I just got tired of ham and chicken. Collards: I despise to see them.
You do?
Yes. I don't care nothing for ham right now.
But your father would come home at night and milk the cow?
No, Momma would milk her, or either I would milk her. In fact, to tell you the truth, couldn't nobody milk her but my mother and myself; wouldn't let you milk her. My mother and myself were the only ones that could milk that cow.
Why? You were the ones that knew how to do it?
Yes.
What other jobs did you have around the house? Did each person
No. Only thing I done was cut wood, cut a little wood to cook with, and see that there was coal in the house. That's all; I didn't have nothing to do.
The house was heated by coal?
That's right.
A coal stove?
A big old fireplace.
What did your sisters do around the house? Did they help with the cooking?
Yes. They were some real good cooks too.
Oh they were?
Oh yes, all of them can cook. Every one of them can cook … but one. She ain't no good on cooking; all the rest of them cook.
Now what would be some of the times when your family would… ? Would you go visiting other families, or people come visit you, or get together with other neighbors or soforth? Did you have any kind of parties or things like that?
Yes, once in a while; yes.
What would be the occasion for that?
Well, they'd just get together to eat and mess around and have a little dancing or something.
You would have some dancing?
Yes, had what you might call … way back there they called it a frolic then: "grab your partner and promenade" and all that stuff, going around, and banjos and stuff picking.
Would you have a band there?
No, just guitars and banjos.
Guitars and banjos?
That's right.
Did anybody in your family play?
Well, my daddy could play a little bit, and my uncle, he could call the set. They had a good time. They had a better time than they do now.
Really?
Yes sir, they had a whole lot better time than people have now.
Why?
I don't know. There just wasn't no fussing and fighting and cussing and arguing going on; that's the biggest thing. People now, you go out and have a little fun, people want to kill you now. See, people didn't do that back then.
You don't remember many fights over at Pomona or in the neighborhood?
No, no. Everybody got along lovely. On the fourth of July, that's when they had a big time then.
Over at the plant?
No, over on the job, up there on the edge of the woods somewhere, with a big band and big eating and everything, all day long.
Would the company put that on?
No, the people put that on. Go off home and get some children and bring them out there, feed them, and play the band and things. People used to have a better time than they do now.
I see. Nobody would get liquored up over there on fourth of July, and get a little too much liquor in them?
No.
Not too much?
If they did it wouldn't be but one or two, and somebody'd take him home right then and put him to bed. It wasn't nothing like it is now.
Now how about church? Did your parents take you to church?
Yes, yes, they went to church every Sunday. You had to go to church.
What church did you go to?
A Methodist church; it used to be there right on the job, a great big old Methodist church down there.
When you say "on the job" you mean that there was a… ?
Yes, right out where the plant… The plant was about as far as from here over to the corner up there.
Right. And what did they call the village that you lived in? Was that called Pomona?
Yes: Pomona Terracotta, that's what it was called.
Did they have a certain name for your neighborhood? Did everybody who worked at the plant live there?
Yes, most. Two people lived at Guilford and Collins Grove up there that a'way, and Greensboro.
Now we're pretty far out from Greensboro, aren't we?
Yes, about six miles.
Did you get to go into town much?
Once in a while.
What would you go into town for? Why would you go?
I'd have to be going in with my daddy. That would be on Saturday, Saturday evening rather, five or six o'clock.
You would go in to do some shopping?
Yes, that's right. That's the only time we had time to do some shopping, on Saturday evening; we worked 'til four o'clock on a Saturday. Had to go in and get groceries and mess around on Saturday evening—Saturday night, rather.
What would payday be like? When people would get paid off over here at Pomona what would they do? Did they have a little party or something?
No. By the time they bought groceries and stuff didn't have nothing to have no party out of. My daddy, I don't think he was making but eight dollars a week then. I don't think he even made over eight dollars a week then.
Now this would be before the first World War, probably, right, when you were a young boy?
Yes, I remember that, yes; I was a little ol' boy.
Did your father have any sayings, or any kinds of rules around the house? Who was the disciplinarian around the house? Who would discipline you?
My mother.
How would she do that?
Well … now I'll just tell you the truth. You know, I didn't pay too much attention to it, and I just couldn't tell you exactly how it was done.
Did she ever take a switch and hit you a little bit with the switch?
Oh yes; she could give you a good one, too. She was left handed, and it looked like when she hit you she'd pull you to her. Now we got plenty of whooping; I reckon that's the reason we're like we are today, because she believed in punishing you for what you done.
Do you remember any particular time that you got punished?
Yes, I remember two times. I remember a fellow went there and told them I spit on him—and which I didn't know the fellow was even around nowhere. And she whipped me for that. And I told her she didn't due me that whipping; I didn't spit on nobody, and I didn't know the man was upstairs. I was setting down on the ground and he spit out there on me. Of course I didn't tell her 'til after she whipped me; I didn't tell her. And then she whipped me again for being over there at the boiler room at night firing boilers. And she told me to stay away from over there. But I just wanted to be doing something all the time, just like an old goat. That's how I learned how to fire the boilers, hanging around over there at night, fooling with the old night man. He'd let me fire and mess around, so I just went out.
I started to ask, did your parents have any sayings like, oh, "Don't take it so hard, it may not be true," or just kinds of little sayings that they would say to the kids, or little things that they would always be saying? Do you remember anything like that?
Well no, not too good.
How about school? How far did you go in school?
Well, I went to the sixth grade, yes. Then after I quit school
Why? You didn't like it there?
Yes, I liked it; but I didn't like for nobody to mess with me, see. And then we'd get to fighting, and then the teacher'd jump into it. Then we'd fall out and they'd run me away from school.
I see. You'd be fighting with some of your classmates, you mean?
Yes.
Where was the school?
It was right over there in the pines. When we first started off we started off in the church down there; had school in the church. Then they built a big school out over yonder, right over there on the hill.
Who built it?
The county, I reckon.
The county, not the company?
No, not the company, the county built it. That was a nice place over there. Then they turned around and tore it down after so many years. A good place too, a nice school; I figured they need it now.
I'll ask you just a couple of more questions about your home, and then we can talk about Pomona. OK? You've said that you ran off from school. Did you think your teachers… ? How did they treat you over there?
The teachers? They'd treat you nice; yes, they were nice to
us. Well, what was the cause of it, what was the biggest thing that
caused it: somebody done something, and she had a switch and hit him.
Instead of hitting him she hit me. Then we got to arguing, and I run to
the door and held it to keep
Did you regret that later on?
Yes I did. Now sometimes I think, "Now if I'd of went on to school, what kind of job I could have had today." I was a smart guy—not bragging also, but I was a smart guy.
Well let me ask you: when you were growing up like that did you dream about becoming some particular job? Did you ever play like you were somebody? Or what did you want to be when you were growing up?
No, I'll tell you about me: I wanted to be everything. I wanted to do this and I wanted to do that and I wanted to do that. My mother would come out and ask me, "Now what are you doing out there?" And I'd tell her "Nothing." I never would tell nobody what I was doing.
But you were always tinkering with something?
That's right, always tinkering with something.
But you didn't think to yourself, "Well, I think I'd like to be an engineer, or I'd like to be a mechanic," or something like that. Did you ever think about a certain job that you wanted to be?
No I didn't, to tell you the truth. But I'll tell
you, I didn't study about that too much, 'cause
anything that I'd see you do, I may ask you two or three
questions, I'd turn around and do it myself. I was just that
smart in the head. I didn't have no particular job: just
anything that I wanted to do, I could do it … if I wanted to
do it. I'm that a'way yet. I've seen
people sitting messing with something, messing with something;
I'd walk up and stand there and look and wouldn't
say a word.
I see. Well that takes a certain kind of talent; I mean, you've got to be able to observe pretty closely, right?
Yes.
And be able to concentrate?
All I need now is that little piece of paper; that's all I need now.
What piece of paper?
You know, from the school; that little piece of paper from the school is all you get. That's all you need.
Do you think that would have made a difference?
It would have made a big difference with me.
Why?
'Cause I knows what to do.
But what would you have done differently? Would you have taken a different kind of job if you had graduated from high school?
That's right.
Where might you have taken it?
I might have been setting in somebody's office. I've done some of everything.
Did your parents discourage you from quitting school, or did they say anything about it?
No, they didn't say a word about it; didn't make me
go back or nothing. Well, I might have could have got back; they
expelled me from school. I might have went on somewhere else and went to
school, but I didn't have it on my mind. See, you
don't never know what's in front of
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
Let's talk a little bit about when you first went to work at Pomona. You mentioned some of the times that you used to go over there as a young boy and just mess around over there—right?
Yes.
Do you remember your first job that you had there?
Yes, I worked with the trimming bunch. You know, they make the pipe, set them out on the floor. They set there so long, then you go turn them over. That's the first job I had. Then I got on up a little larger. I went up and went to feeding the press: that's running the mud in there to make the pipe out of. I left there and went down and went to tempering the clay: that's making it up.
You mixed the clay with what, with water?
Water. I left there and went to the setting bunch: where they set them in the kiln. I worked there awhile. Then I left there. I don't know, I just worked everywhere; I done everything. Ain't nothing that I haven't done. And then as time rolled on I went to making pipe.
Where? What do you mean by that?
Pressing them out, with steam. Yes, press them out and run them out, run them out of the press.
So you did the job of putting them in the press, and then later on you took them… ?
No, you'd run the mud in there; a man upstairs run the mud in
there. You had a lever to pull to make the pipe. I don't know
what you were
Yes.
Do you remember when they'd make pipe with steam? Had a steam press.
Oh, oh, yes, right.
Yes. In fact you'd hear "chow, chow chow chow"; you heared it like that. But every time you'd hear that thing go "chow, chow, chow," that's a pipe made. That's right.
I don't know what; I can't tell you what all I ain't done over there. Then I got smart enough to go to setting up the forms for the pipe: changing everything up to make a different pipe. And then I left there and got to be a maintenance man. I don't care what it was, they just called me. I remember once I was over there and my brother (I learned him how to run a machine, you know, over there), and he was over there. And the superintendent come by and told me, he said, "James is in trouble. Go around there and see what's the matter with him." Well I walked up there and stood and looked. I asked him—we called him Curly—I said, "Curly, what's the matter?" He said, "I can't get this thing to run here." I said, "If you put it on the track it'll run." He said, "Well I'll be damned." He said, "I've been here messing with this thing for hours. You just come right in here and showed it right off the bat." I can do most anything, I don't care what it is.
Now who taught you these jobs?
I just picked it up.
You just taught yourself?
Yes, just picked it up.
Did anybody stand over you and say, "All right, now you do this and you do that"?
No. Now, you see, I'll tell you what I'll do; here's the way I am. If something happened over there you call me. And if you've got to go ahead and tell me, I'll tell you, "Fix it then. If you know what to do, do it. You fix it." See, I'd throw my things down and walk off. And some of them said, "Let him alone. He'll fix it when you all get away." Then I'd go in and go back and fix it when all of them leave. I remember one day they told me to take my men and go out there and unload that ring machine out of the truck. Well, I went out there and I got everything set up. Here come two of them out there telling me what to do. I stood there and listened to them. I said, "Y'all give me this job, didn't you?" They said "Yes." I said, "Well let me run it." Went right on off. Four o'clock come and I had that thing setting there in the plant, and they don't know how I done it.
How did you do it?
Well, I just had my way mapped out and told my boys what to do and how to do it, and we just done it all right.
So you had a group of men that you were sort of the leader of?
Yes, I used to operate with twenty-three men.
On which job was this?
The pressing crew, making sewer pipe. See, I worked mostly at night. Nobody but me, see; I'd be there. Everybody wanted to work with me. But we'd always do a lot of work. We'd always do it, and nobody grumbling and fussing and fighting. Just whatever I told them, that's what went.
Well, what were your hours? How many hours a day would you work?
Well, I didn't have no certain time. I was supposed to work eight hours. But sometimes I'd leave here in the morning at seven o'clock; I may not be back home no more 'til tomorrow about two or three o'clock.
Why is that?
Something'd break down, I'd stay there and fix it. And then at night I wouldn't go off and leave nothing so that when the day man came on he couldn't work. If I did I'd tag him and tell him what to do. I'd be back sometime tomorrow about ten or eleven o'clock to fix it. I never would go off and leave him in the hole. I'd always have something for him to do when he got there.
Were most of the people that you worked with black or white?
Black.
They all lived in this neighborhood?
Part of them did. Part of them lived in Reidsville and everywhere, just different places.
How much did they pay you? How much did you start out getting paid?
When I started out? I got ten cents an hour when I started out; I was about fourteen years old then. And it just kept a'going up. I never made two dollars and a half a day at that plant in my life. I went up and I got more all the time. If I didn't think it was enough, I'd go tell them, "I don't think it's enough." I wouldn't have no introduction; they'd pay me some more.
Really?
Yes sir.
Do you remember a time you'd go up to … who would this be, Mr. Boren?
No. Well, Mr. Millikan was the guy in charge then. Well, I worked under seven supervisors there; never had a cross word with one. But one of my special men was Kemp Boren. Now me and him, we could make it. I'd go down there some morning and he'd say, "You go down yonder and get in my car, and stay there. If I don't get there 'til twelve, you stay there." Well that evening or whenever he'd come we'd go bird hunting. Well we'd go off, and he'd give me four or five dollars out of his pocket. Then he'd mark me up ten hours on the time sheet. Well, I left that. And another good fellow there was John A. Boren; he was a good supervisor.
Were you worried that something might be breaking down on the plant while you were out bird hunting?
Well, I wasn't maintenance man then.
Oh, I see.
I wasn't old enough to take on all that responsibility then. I was just messing around with him. Some mornings I'd go; he'd tell me, "Go over yonder and play with my boys." I'd go over to his house and stay all day, the whole day playing. He was a good fellow.
Did the fellows at the plant say anything about it to you? Did they kid you a little bit?
No, they didn't know nothing about it. All they knew, I just
wasn't there; that's all they knew. I'd
go off to the store and get me a watermelon. He'd say,
"Next time you go to the store and I catch you over there,
I'm going to make you go out there in the field and pull up
some weeds." I said, "You're just as well
to do it, 'cause I'm going back.
Who said that to you, Kemp? Kemp Boren said that to you?
Yes, yes. I told him it was just as well to do it, because I was going back when I wanted me a watermelon.
Well, how come he liked you so much?
Well, I don't know why he liked me so much. My motto was that I treat you like I want you to treat me; that was my main motto.
That's the Golden Rule.
Yes. And I done it to everybody. I didn't have a cross word with none of them; I'd do my work; I'd "mark up my board" every night; go back, and everything was all right.
What do you mean by "mark up your board"?
What production I put out that night. See, you had to count that stuff and mark it up. Then the man would take it off at the end of the week.
I see.
Yes. You'd mark it up tonight; it would just stay up there all week 'til Monday morning. Then you spoiled that off, and then you'd start again. He'd been and got it off by then. When you got back there it'd be off of the board; he'd been done taken it off.
What was the most you made there at the plant in a week per hour?
Per hour? I don't know, to tell you the truth; I've forgot now.
I mean, about how high up did you get? You started at ten cents an hour. Did you get up to $2.50 an hour?
Oh no, I never went there. I got over that. When I went up, I went up over that. I have made $265 dollars a week there.
You made $265. a week?
I have made.
That's a lot of money.
That ain't too much. I made some good money down there, going to tell you the truth. Then I left there, went out to Number Six. I run a machine out there making pipe, an augur press.
Right. Where was that? Where was Number Six?
Well, it was right out from Number Three, right out there in the field. It's tore down too; they tore it down here a while back.
How many plants were there altogether?
Altogether? Well, let me see; you mean before they destroyed?
Yes.
One, two, three, four.
Four plants.
Then they built another little plant out there where there were machines in there, and you'd take the pipe out. Counting that it'd be five.
Well, why did they call it Number Six?
Well, that's the last one that was built.
Oh, I see.
Yes.
Now Number One and Two were pretty old plants, weren't they?
Yes, they were frame buildings, yes. Number Three and Number Four, Number
Three was built out of bricks, Number Four was built out of
And they all had those kilns around them, right? Those beehive kilns?
That's right.
You don't see any like that any more, do you?
No, and there ain't, I don't think, but one or two over there now. They done tore them all down.
How do you feel about that?
Who me?
Yes.
Well, I'll tell you the truth: I ain't had no feeling about them, to tell you the truth.
You told me that you missed the whistles blowing.
Yes, I miss that especially. You know, something to keep a racket every morning. I miss it bad.
When did they blow the whistles?
7:15 and 7:30, and 12:00 and 12:30, and 4:00.
Was that to wake people up, or was that another shift?
No, that was the time to go to work, 7:30. They'd give you fifteen minutes warning.
Well, let me ask you this. You said you worked at night. There was a night shift?
Yes, a night shift and a day shift. Well, when all of the plants were
running all of them worked the same hours. You'd go to work
at 7:30 'til 4:00. And then one of the plants burned down and
they had to take care of the men. They went to running two shifts. The
first shift
So there'd always be somebody there.
Yes, always somebody there.
I see. Did you ever go down to their mine down the Gulf and mine?
Yes, yes.
You did? What was that like?
Nothing but just a big old clay cut there where they done pushed some trees down, and a great big hole right there where they were getting that clay. I was down there not too long ago.
Yes. Well, they didn't start that up until you were a fullgrown man.
Yes, I was an old man, yes.
Where did they get their clay from before that?
Madison, yes, Madison. I've even been over there and worked, fixing steam shovels that would break down. I'd be over there before anybody'd get there to raise steam on the boiler, working on the steam shovel.
So you knew the whole process?
Yes, sir.
From the time they took it out of the ground until they made a pipe.
That's right, from the time it come out of the ground until it
went out in the kiln and out on the yard I knowed all about it. I even
been out there loading trucks. You know, get them orders in,
there'd be so many. A man'd come by and hand you
some orders and go on; you'd go
Would this be every day you'd be doing a new job, or would it just be a certain… ?
No, just certain times, certain times, whatever come up. Well, after a while it got so they could have had a process of men a'loading, just of kept them. When they got too much stuff and the men couldn't handle it, why you'd go out there and help them.
Did they make a good product over there?
Yes, that's right.
I've heard it said that there's a Pomona sewer pipe under every town in North Carolina probably.
No, it wasn't that many; it was a few, but not many. But I think this here place made the best pipe.
Did you ever get to see any other pipes made by any other companies?
No I didn't, to tell you the truth. I was intending to go, but something happened and I didn't go. I don't know what it was now.
Let me ask you: when you were first coming on, most of the machines were run by steam engines, right?
That's right. Yes, a big old steam engine pulled it off. Then they switched off to electric motors. I was glad when all that was changed.
When would that happen? Do you remember when that was?
Oh, about twelve or fifteen years ago.
They had the steam engines running until then?
Yes.
After World War II?
Yes, that's right. Let's see, the year when the
plant blowed up
I was going to ask you… I know that there was one accident there in 1962.
Oh yes. I was at home that day; I wasn't working then. I hurt my wrist. I'll tell you what happened. I went in there, I was right there at Number Six working on a press out there. I was going to make some pipe out there. Well, what it was, we were going to send the machine to the Gulf. They had a machine there to put it on the boards under the pipe. And I went out there to show the man if it would work. Well, I bent down to hook up there, and I looked in there and said, "My knife ain't right." It wasn't setting right. Well, I went back and changed my knife; then I stepped back again. And when I stepped back to put my hand in there to fix that, a fellow come up and stuck the air on it. And he seed me with my hand, he snatched it off right quick. If it had caught it, it would have cut my hand off right there. See, where that thing hits it locks up right dead.
What did he have in his hand?
An air hose. See, you slip on an air hose; then all you have to do is slip it on there and it's got it that quick. But it happened it didn't catch when he stuck it up there. It'd have cut my hand off if it hadn't smashed it off. It hit it and hurt it awful bad. The doctor said it cracked a bone, but I ain't never believed him because it didn't ever give me no trouble.
Well, that was the same time that the plant blew up?
Yes, the plant blowed up the next day.
Now do you remember anything about that?
No, I wasn't there. Yes, I remember about it, but I wasn't there that day.
What happened? What was it like around here when that happened?
Oh boy, it was a pitiful time down there, I'm telling you the truth. Some men hurt (five or six of them got hurt), one got killed, and one man ain't right yet from it.
Really?
Yes. I didn't know who it was when I first seed him. I walked up and he said, "Oh, Cowboy." And I said, "No, it ain't Cowboy—" Cowboy was baldheaded. And I looked over there and there laid Newell Freedman, or Newell—what's his name? Let me see; we called him "Catboy."
"Catboy."
Yes, that's what we called him. Newell, Newell … what was his name now? I forgot his name now; I might think of it directly. Then I walked around and come on up through there around the kiln, and there lay another boy. He was dead with his hand knocked off at the end right up here. That was a pitiful time down there.
Did you hear the explosion?
Yes, I was sitting right up there in a chair. Felt like the bottom was coming out of the chair. I told the fellow that fired the boiler (he was going in at three o'clock), I told him, I said, "There goes the boiler." Old Joe said, "Yes, it had to go; that's it."
What plant was that?
It wasn't but one plant then. One
Which plant was that?
That was Number Three.
Number Three.
Yes. And I went down there and I looked at that thing. The doors on the building were knocked off. It drove a hole through two or three walls going back there. I never seed a mess in my life…
Were there ever any other accidents like that?
No, that's the only one like that.
Really?
Yes. Well, I'll tell you the truth. About three weeks before that happened I knowed there was something wrong somewhere.
Why?
Whenever you'd stop running them presses, stopped them and you'd go back to it, just stopped it three or four minutes, then you'd pull that head (going to pull it down in there), it'd haul back and fall in there. I told Mr. Banner, I said, "Mr. Banner, you'd better go to that boiler room; there's something wrong somewhere." I said, "That head don't do the boiling there like that." Well, he went on back there and went to talking to another fellow about it, and he told him the same thing. In two or three weeks they were gone.
And he had just started as superintendent then, hadn't he?
Yes, it hadn't been too long.
Right, yes.
He's a fine fellow, though. Just whatever he said,
that's what he means. If he said "Yes" he
meant it, and if he said "No" that's what
he meant. I liked to fool with him and deal with him; he's
just a
Did any of the fellows who worked over there, nobody lost a hand?