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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview K-0171, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
This interview does not focus a great deal of attention on race, integration, and education in Charlotte, North Carolina, but Harriet Love, an African American woman who has spent most of her life in Charlotte, details her high regard for West Charlotte High School and in doing so offers some revealing points on race in a southern city. Love attended West Charlotte before integration and her two children enrolled there afterward, so she is able to discuss the school's two identities: as a core element of the African American community, and as a model of successful integration. Many of Love's recollections were not excerpted because they did not deal directly with integration and race at West Charlotte. Researchers interested in the details of life as a West Charlotte student outside of the role of race in its history should read this interview in its entirety.
Harriet Love shares memories of and fondness for West Charlotte, a truly unique school.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
At Johnson C. Smith University, interviewing Ms. Harriet Love about West Charlotte High School. I thought I'd just start off with you by asking, are you a Charlotte native?
Yes, I am. I grew up in the Greenville area of Charlotte. I have been here all my life. I have been fortunate enough to visit places, but I always come back home.
Charlotte is the place for you.
It is. It really is.
Can you tell me a little bit about your community that you grew up in?
Well, the community was a community. Basically, the street that I lived
on and a couple of streets adjacent to where I lived, that was basically
my community. Most of the people were older. There were children in the
community that were the same age as me and my brothers and sisters. You
were disciplined by everyone in the community, even if it was just a
shake of the finger. They were there to kind of help you and guide you.
It was very rich in that we had very creative kinds of things that we
would do to entertain ourselves. I can remember my father was driving a
truck at the time for a company, and they would have machines that had
potato chips and things like that. And we built a store and a playhouse.
I mean, we actually built a store and a playhouse, and we sold the chips
for a penny. We would even cook things. We would get greens and cook
them and get tomatoes out of the garden and chop them up. Boys and girls
would do those kinds of things. Then in the afternoon, it was time for
the running and the playing and baseball or softball at that time. And
the bookmobile, which you have probably never heard of, was a library on
wheels. That library on wheels would come
What kind of books were you reading at that time?
Well, I guess we were young; we were in elementary school. We were just reading whatever we liked. That was the nice thing about it. It wasn't assigned reading. You could read anything you wanted to read. I can remember I was young, but I wanted to speak French. I got this French book, and I got real quickly that I could not do it just by reading it. I probably got one word or two words out of it. But my brothers would read books on building things and carving things. They could carve cars. They could build anything. Girls, we usually read stories about other children our age, going places, those kinds of things.
Why did you want to speak French? I've heard a couple of people say that.
I don't know. It just seemed like you were so mysterious. It was such a
romantic language. It just seemed like something that I wanted to do.
And I did take French in high school, and I did okay. We had
conversational French and I can remember Mrs. Bowers was my instructor.
One of the things you had to do; you had to write it and speak it. You
would walk in the room, and she would tell you, 'You cannot speak any
English today. We're only going to speak French.' God knows how I got
through the class. I learned for the moment, which was a bad thing. I
did not learn it for
What makes you want to learn Spanish?
Because our community is changing so. With the number of people coming in contact with, just right here on campus, we have people who are Hispanic, and it would be good for me. Some of them do not speak any English. It would be good for me to be able to hold a conversation with them. I feel like that's a must because I am a people person, and I like to talk to them. If they come up with a cut finger, and we want to tell them how to keep it clean. I think that's going to be something that I'm going to have to do, and then it's something I kind of want to do, just for my own sake.
The languages are a lot of fun. I enjoy it.
I'm sure they are. If I can master one, I'll be all right.
That's really interesting. Did you always know that you were going to go to West Charlotte High School? Was that something that everybody in your neighborhood did?
Yes. We knew, and we looked forward to it. I went to Fairview School in
Greenville. When you left Fairview School, you knew you were going to
Northwest, which was the first West Charlotte. And then when you left
Northwest, you were to go to West Charlotte. There was never any thought
of anything else other than going to West Charlotte. We always had an
ongoing feud with Second Ward High School, which there is no more Second
Ward. I'm thinking it's coming to the point where some of us have lied
about how many games we won or how many games they won because—but we
have
Were there connections between the churches and the schools?
Yes. Many of the church members attended West Charlotte where I went to
church, C.N. Jenkins Presbyterian. But at the time, it was called
Brandon Presbyterian, and it was in Greenville. Many of my church
members were graduates of West Charlotte. I think people were—not
everyone was poor. I was poor. But people were able to give something to
West Charlotte—I get Johnson C. Smith in here—they were able to share
things. Sometimes if there were games, maybe a person in the
neighborhood would take a truckload of kids to the game. Maybe they
didn't have children. Different little things. So, yes, I believe they
were a part and very proud of it. Many of our neighbors did not go to
school at all in North Carolina. They may have been from South Carolina
or whatever. And many of them didn't have twelve years of education. But
they were still in favor of us having it. I walked to school not because
I had to but because we wanted to. We wanted to save our money and stop
by this little store and get a pickle or whatever else you wanted, some
junk. On your way to school, you were
How long a walk was it?
When you're young, it's not long. It would take us about fifteen or twenty minutes. Not flying, just walking a nice brisk walk. It would be a group. It could be a group of four, five, ten, fifteen kids, just depending. On bad days, we would catch the bus. The bus would carry you to school for ten cents. You would ride the bus. But on pretty days, we would walk. Just about every day, we walked home.
What kinds of things would you talk when you were doing your walk?
Well, we'd talk about the assignments that we had or boys, naturally, talked about clothing, styles, those kinds of things, hairstyles. Weight was never something anyone discussed. Never, never. At that age, that was never one of our interests. Whether we were going to the dance or the sock hop. Who did we like or who we didn't like. We had more of that kind of discussion than anything else.
And would these be, would you be if you were thinking about who you liked or dating, would it be mostly people from within West Charlotte or would you talk about people—?
Sometimes it was outside West Charlotte; it would be Second Ward or York
Road. That was the other high school. But most of the time, it was
someone at West Charlotte that liked you. We used to say when you were
going to this thing that you go with John. You go with so and so. If
they liked you, that didn't mean that you had made any contact. One girl
in our group that was always the matchmaker, and she would tell some of
them that 'You need to date him because so and so and you need to date.'
And I
It sounds like you went around with larger and larger groups rather than small.
Yes, we did. One of our girlfriend's father had a car, and he'd occasionally let her have it. It was a big car. I don't know whether it was a Buick, but it was big. And there would be ten of us in there sometimes. Something like that but there was never any speeding or anything. You'd go get a burger or go get a coke or something or just ride, cruise. But our cruising was certainly different than the cruising now because we never would have blocked the driveway or obstructed traffic in any way like young people do now. But the population now, they have so many cars. We had, you're talking about one car you might get once a month. But it was still fun, and it was still something that we could do to entertain ourselves.
When you were at West Charlotte, did you feel like you knew most of the people at the school?
I knew their faces. I knew the circle that my class, the class of '62 I knew those people. Some of the other people, I just knew their faces. I had brothers and sisters that attended West Charlotte. I would know their close friends maybe, but other than that I didn't. I was quiet back then. I didn't venture out as much as some people.
How many brothers and sisters did you have?
At that time, I had three brothers and two sisters. One of my brothers
is deceased now. So I have two brothers and two sisters. I have a half
sister, also. But I did not know her that well. I knew of her, but I did
not know her. She was much older. We were very close. We didn't all go
to school together. My brother Clinton, my sister Cynthia and myself
were all in school together because we were '62, '63, and I think he
finished in '61. '61, '62, and '63 we were right there together. And
then my brother Jerome finished in '59. And Booker T. finished in '53.
Frances, I believe—I was born in'44—so she may have finished high school
in something like '48 or 49. So we were all there, or we had roots
there. And one of the things that used to infuriate me, my instructors
would say, 'Oh, you're Jerome Gentry's sister.' Or, 'You're Clinton
Gentry's sister.' So one day I was feeling very bold, and the science
teacher told me that and I said, 'I am Harriet Zoria Gentry and I'd
appreciate it if you'd call me by name.' Well that was an insult to him
and certainly he got in contact, my mother was deceased at that time, he
got in contact with my father and my older sister and talked to them.
And I was so proud because my sister supported me and she said and my
dad did too. They said, 'We've always told them they have to express
themselves, and she needed to express
Did you do any other things to sort of establish yourself? Not necessarily talking but activities or things you did with an eye towards?
Well, I had always loved art. I would do dabble in arts and paintings
and things like that. I was always an organizer, so I learned very early
that teachers would use me even though it was my class. I was expected
to do my assignments, but I was used to do other things that had to do
with me organizing or getting a task done. If there was a party for the
class, I was always a part of that. And to this day people still want me
to do these things, which I'm involved in. But I think that was my big
plus. I was very quiet at first, having lost my mother when I was
thirteen. They helped me with my assertiveness, which was good. Many of
these people knew my family and so that was a plus. Then I married very
young. I got married when I was seventeen. I married the guy that I was
dating at school, John W. Love, Sr. John W. Love and then we had a baby
boy, who was John W. Love, Jr., who finished at West Charlotte also and
my daughter finished. I always was a strong person, but I believe the
reason that I was such a strong person, it was the way that our mother
taught us. And as I look back, even when I was much younger, she
prepared us for a life of meaningfulness. She taught us things. She
taught my brothers how to iron and clean and cook. She taught us how to
repair. She was basically a homemaker; she taught us how to repair
things, to do some of the things paint and wallpaper and all that. So we
were well rounded. And I always have said that I
Do you feel like the teachers at West Charlotte consciously tried to help you develop in that direction as well? Do you think they just saw your talent in that?
No, I think that they brought—we all brought something to the table, but
I think at that time we were changing classes so we had several
different teachers. I think they really looked at each of us as an
individual. I think they learned what our weaknesses were. It's sort of
like a barrel of crabs. We're all in the same fix. We're all in the
barrel. There were very few that were rich. We had some classmates'
parents taught. Some classmates' parents that may have been a brickmason
and made more money than the teacher. It was the fact that they knew
that you wanted more than to just get a diploma and to get out. You
wanted to be able to speak clearly. You wanted to be able to reason. I
think, for me, each of my instructors was able to give me something to
help mold me into a better person. I remember I had an English teacher,
Ms. Bell. Ms. Bell was my homeroom teacher. Mrs. Bell would, she would,
her expectations of you were very high. And sometimes she would just ask
us questions like, 'What have you done with such and such?' 'Well, have
you done your homework on such and such?'
Well, I'm interested in your teacher, you said that he interpreted Shakespeare in such a wonderful way. Can you think of any particular example like in terms of a play or something?
Well, let me say this. This is something I remember. The part when, not
so much Shakespeare, as all things. I'll take this one statement. When
he was telling us Caesar made his speech, and Caesar said to the people,
'I give you,' Whatever he gave them. 'I give you the rain, and I give
you the sunlight, and I give you the grass and the people, 'Yeah Caesar.
Caesar, mighty Caesar.'' And he says, 'Yes, stop and think about this.
How powerful was Caesar?' And we're all sitting there thinking, 'Gosh,
you know he's really powerful.' And then he said, 'He cannot give you
what you already have. But the people got so caught up in the moment
that they believed that he could.' He used that to tell us that we get
caught up in the moments of things, and sometimes we're very successful
when we do that and sometimes we're not as successful. So he let us know
that when you get involved in something. He could take anything and
bring something out. When you get involved in something, remember that
it is—you can go both ways depending on how you are thinking on that.
And the other thing he would say little rhymes he would say. He would
say this one. 'Men don't forget your raincoat because you never know
when it's going to rain.' He would say, 'Ladies,' what. He would say,
'Ladies, you can always ask for someone's health card.' For years I
didn't know what the man was talking about. But actually he was saying,
'Guys if you're going to be sexually active, you need a condom.' And the
women he was saying 'If you're going to be sexually active, you need to
know your partner.' He would say that every Friday. And for the longest,
no one would say anything about it because we didn't talk about condoms
[unclear]
What would they have an emergency teacher's meeting about?
They didn't do it too often. It may have been something that came from,
I guess, the board or something like that. Or something they were trying
to implement. Usually I remember teachers meetings being in the warm
weather. And see, they would have they didn't call them assistants. They
may have somebody in the room. But we didn't pay—and there'd be a
substitute, but we didn't pay them any attention. That was a joke way
back then. It's like it is now. But it was just interesting that we
would do some things like that. Everybody just sort of did their own
thing at that time. I knew to stay close to my room. And you'd have
someone watch and, 'Here she comes.' And everybody would get back in
their seat and read. But it was a lot of fun. There was a lady, Mrs.
Lane, I think it was Mrs. Lane. I never wanted to be in Mrs. Lane's
class because she was a chemistry major, science and chemistry. She
would take these cats and get these cats from where they kill them.
Wherever the name of the place. They would boil all of the fur and hair
and bones, and then you would mount the cat, which was an educational
experience. I never wanted to be in her class, and I wasn't. But then
when I went to nursing school, I had to dissect a cat. Well, that wasn't
so bad, but the fur was still on the cat. I don't like animals. I had to
dissect it, and they said—they told us you know, we had little kits and
everything with our gloves. I had two pair of gloves on. Oh, I just
couldn't stand it. I couldn't stand looking at the cat's face, so I had
to cover it [unclear]
What kinds of expectations did the teachers have or did you have about what you would do once you graduated?
Well, that was something they would ask you, what do you want to do? They would try to make sure that you were getting the correct—you were either college preparatory or you were wanted to be a laborer or a technician at something. If you were college preparatory, they made sure that you had all the classes that you needed in order to go into college. Most of us were college preparatory in my classes. They would make sure you knew—at one time I wanted to be a physical therapist. I kept talking about it and talking about it and talking about it. So I guess everyone was beginning to understand that I really wanted to do that. I did not become a physical therapist, but I'm a registered nurse. So I'm still fulfilled that I'm in the medical field. I think they guided me that way. Then they began to give you information when they realized that you really were serious about what you wanted. They began to give you information and make suggestions of schools and things like that.
Did you come to Smith after that? Where did you go?
No. I went to—first I went to Central Piedmont. And then I got my BS in Health Care Administration from St. Joseph's College in Maine.
Okay, so you did go away?
Yes. I did go away.
Why did you decide to go so far away?
Well, actually I didn't go right after graduation. I went to Central Piedmont. First, I went to Central Piedmont and I became an LPN, a Licensed Practical Nurse. I liked it so much. Then I went back to Central Piedmont, and I became a Registered Nurse. I was working at, where was I working? I was working at Carolinas Medical Center, and I got a job with Fruehauf Corporation, which was out in Arrowood at the time. I was getting ready to go to UNCC, and they had this program. And they were willing to let so many people be in this program and no one wanted to do it. And I said, 'I'll do it' because see I was making preparations anyway. So that's how I got to Maine. It was a very good program.
Well, we're kind of, we're sort of moving a little bit now, where you've graduated and gone on. I gathered that, how many children did you have?
Two.
Two. Did they both go to West Charlotte?
They did.
When did they graduate. What were their years of graduation?
Oh, I can never remember years. I'm sorry. My husband is the date person. I have a terrible thing about dates. John, my oldest, graduated in '78 and Jewel graduated in '79, I think. '78 and '79. And both of them went on to college. John is an actor.
Oh, I know him. John Love. Yes.
That's my son.
Okay.
Okay, well you know him.
[unclear]
Thank you. Thank, you. I don't have to say anything else about him. He's into many things. He's very creative. He is extremely creative. My daughter, she, they were both truly involved in school. John was the, at one time, he was the mascot. He was in the band. Jewel was a letter girl. They both were in Order of the Lions. He was class president. She was, was she class president? I think, she was class president at one time. They were very active. Not because we pushed them. They were just good at what they were doing. Outspoken, John was definitely like his mother. I never had any trouble. Never had a bit of trouble out of either of them. Thank God. They, I was very young when I married, me and my husband. But they have respected us, and we have respected them. We have told them our expectations of them were for them to get them an education. They have done that. They have both been very successful doing what they want to do. I'm very proud of both of them.
Now, where were you living in Charlotte at the time when they were at West Charlotte?
I was living on Crawford Drive. And then I moved from Crawford Drive to Plumstead Road where I live now. We've been there about thirty years. That's where we were living. I think on Crawford Drive when John—No, I was living on Plumstead the whole time they went to West Charlotte.
Did you always, did you want them to go to West Charlotte? Was that something—?
Yeah. It was kind of a thing. At that time, everyone wanted to go to
West Charlotte. We just happened to be in the right neighborhood. Just
thinking back, I may have even lied to get them there because it was
just a pride kind of thing. There's just a
When your children went to West Charlotte, it had changed to some extent. They had integrated.
Yes, that's true.
Was the school, did you feel it was very similar to what the school had been when you were there or that it was different?
It was different in that you had a diverse number of students. It was
the same in that they were young and their ideals and their desires
weren't a whole lot different from what we had. There was not a lot that
I knew of. There was not a lot of bickering. My husband and I were
active in the PTA. It seemed as though everyone was pulling for the same
thing, for the students. It wasn't about me or it wasn't about the other
parents. It was about the school and the students. And at that time
those years that they were there, I thought they were very good years.
There were not a lot of incidences. And
That's interesting how a lot of people were talking. When the school first began to integrate, obviously the children were in the lower grades at that time. What was your feeling about the process of integration? About what—.
Well, I wanted my children to have the best possible education. And I
also wanted them to be able to look eye to eye with anyone regardless of
their color, regardless of their beliefs. I always told my children how
very, very special they were and how sharp they were and intelligent
they were because it was the truth. Not just to boost them up. So here
was an opportunity for them to be in a situation, a learning situation,
and it could've been positive or negative depending on how I looked at
it and
The way we resolved it, we were involved parents at that time I was
working three to eleven and my husband was working seven to three. That
worked out very well when our children were in school because I could
get them off in the morning, and he had them in the evening. I remember
there was one incident. My daughter Jewel could read and count. She
could count when she was five because my husband worked for the Observer
and a lot of times they would have a lot of change and things. She
learned to count. Both of them learned to count very early and read very
early. I would send her to school every day, and I have to admit I'm one
of those mothers that if I've got a boy or a girl, they're going to
dress really nice. I'd dress them and put in the little bows. The
teacher was a very young teacher, and I felt like she was a little bit
too young to teach my children. I thought, she was in the first grade,
this lady, she's been to school. So the teacher sent home her report
card, and it wasn't a bad report card but it wasn't a good report card.
And she had on there, she had all these comments about Jule how sweet
she was and how pretty she was dressed everyday. That infuriated me so,
I went to school and I talked to the teacher and I told her, I said, 'I
don't need you to tell me how pretty she is; how well she's dressed. I
need for you to tell me what is she doing in school.' That was
important, and once I established that, she knew my expectation she knew
my husband's expectations then it was so much easier to do. I wasn't
rude to her but I was firm and I was assertive. She understood, and then
I could see a change in some things. I would always tell my children,
you have homework every night because my mother told me that. They would
say, 'Mommy, they didn't give us any homework.' I said, 'You read what
you read in school that day. That's your homework.' Every night. That's
the way my mom did, and that's the way I would do. I think children do
need
Do you feel that that teacher just wasn't paying attention?
I just feel like that teacher was young, and I feel like no one had said
anything to her. They accept it. I really and truly believe she thought
she was doing what was best. But after I let her know my expectations,
we weren't at odds. We pulled together to make sure that certain things
were getting done. It worked and that's just what I used with all of
their teachers. 'Don't tell me all this good stuff. Tell me what they
need to do. Where do I need to help them?' There weren't a whole lot of
areas where I needed to help them. Of course, talking. I think everyone
tells them to be quiet in school, but they loved to talk. It was just
that kind of thing. Because most of the time, the students that my
children went to junior high and high school with, they also went to
kindergarten with, many of them. We all knew each other, and the parents
knew each other. When the children got old enough to go to games and
things, there was always a carpool; we never had to take them all the
time. It was always a group of us that had children in school, and they
could carpool, and it gave the parents some free time. It was some very,
very good experiences back then. I think that it would help more people
if they gave children less cars and spent more time. Just riding in a
car and talking to your kids, you can learn a lot. But see if they've
got a car, there's not time to talk to you. When they come home; you're
asleep. When you get up; they're asleep. So there's not time to be a
family. We always used the kitchen as our room for talking over dinner.
Issues that we didn't want to talk about, they didn't want to talk
about, and issues that we do. Punishment, we handed
So you felt also, well I'm going to move a little bit on this subject, kind of a continuity between your experience and theirs?
Yes.
There were similarities?
Yes. I think the difference in my children and myself, we knew our place in school. You did not say certain things to the teacher. You, 'Yes ma'am, no ma'am.' You were extremely respectful. Having taught my children to express themselves, they were not rude, but they did not hold back on their opinions as much as we did. Now, that was definitely a difference. I just would have to remind them sometimes, 'Well, yeah. What you said was right but put yourself in that person's position. That's the principal and they need to know blah blah whatever.' I think it helped them, and I think it helped them become aware of what they were going to say. Also, I think it helped make their character better because you do need some guidelines when you're fifteen, sixteen, and seventeen. You need guidelines. People think you don't, but you do. You work better. Young people work better if they know the rules and regulations. If there are no rules and regulations, they tend to kind of do as they please. So we did have rules and regulations in my household.
I was interested when you said, you said that the children they'd gone to kindergarten and junior high and high school with the same group. Was there a time when they were, I know that people were getting bussed all over the different parts of Charlotte.
Yeah, but they lived pretty much in the same area. And when you lived in the same area that would happen. You may have missed some of them in elementary school. But for some reason when you got ready to go to junior high, whether it was Piedmont Middle School or whatever junior high, they came back together. Then everyone knew that if you went to Piedmont, you automatically would go to West Charlotte. So all their little friends and my children went to Piedmont, which was a wonderful experience for them. That was very good because they were introduced to so many different things. Even in counting, how they did counting and various things that were different. I remember one time, I kept telling my husband I said, 'Now you're going to tell me how a skiing trip is going to make a difference in my daughter's life.' But it did. I don't know everything that they did but I had to go out and buy her a ski suit and all of this. Of course, we say, 'Black people don't ski.' She said, 'Mother, they really do. There were black people there.' That was, Piedmont offered that kind of change. They had teachers that were very energetic, wanted to introduce things to you in a new way. I thought that was good and that helped prepare them for West Charlotte because when they got there, no one's going to stand over you and make you do. And when they got to college, they didn't have problems in college because they had a good foundation. I attribute that to all of the schools but especially to West Charlotte. I think it really prepared them for going to college.
Now would this have been part of the open school then, the open schooling that they had at West Charlotte at that point?
Yes.
So that's the kind of program they had that you were talking about?
Yes, right.
They had to take the responsibility for their own learning then. Were you concerned about that since that was so different when they first sort of encountered this curriculum?
No, because I knew my children. I knew that they wanted to succeed. John
always said that he wanted to be in the theatre and has been and enjoyed
that. And Jule always said that she wanted to be a businesswoman and she
is and she's enjoying that. I think that that's what I kept telling them
that 'You can be anything that you want to be.' Now John is such a
bright young man; I had hoped that he'd be a doctor or lawyer at one
time. I know he would've been a fine one. This was his choice and we
supported him and supported my daughter in this choice. He went to the
University of North Carolina at Greensboro, and she went to Chapel Hill.
Both of them picked what they wanted. He never gave a complaint,
nothing. He went to school and loved it. She got up there and cried the
day, her daddy, we were leaving her up there and wanted to come back
home. She came home every weekend for a whole month. So finally I said,
'You made this choice and for one semester, you must see it through.'
Then after that one semester, I couldn't get the girl to come home. She
liked it so much. It really, I let them know when you make choices,
'You've made the choice so you've got to see it through.' John plays the
piano. She wanted to play the piano because John played the piano so
when he asked
There was a period during that time in the early years of integration where there was some talk maybe about West Charlotte being closed. After Second Ward was closed, there were concerns that this was going to happen to West Charlotte too. I guess I'm interested in your perspective or experience with this sort of time period of concern. Were you concerned?
Well, I imagine there was some concern but not that much for me. I guess the reason being that we had a very strong neighborhood around West Charlotte. Fred Alexander was a city councilman, I believe, very good person for the community that would speak out. I think these educators and various people in the community really said and pushed the need for West Charlotte. I think it was very simple. People may make it complex, but it was simple. We needed it; we're going to stand behind it; and we're going to do what we have to do. I think it just worked out. I think it was one of those blessings in life that you just get. Of course, even up to a couple of years ago we were hearing something like 'Oh they may close West Charlotte.' We have a very, very, very strong alumni—.
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
They decided if they wanted to close West Charlotte, it would not be an easy task. They would have a good little fight on their hands because the community, and you're talking about people that are retired; they're not working anymore; they're saying, 'This is a fine school. I graduated in nineteen forty something and I'm not going to see it go down.' But there will always be a West Charlotte somewhere. It will have a to be. I can see it as a very special place for all students, any student. I just hope it does continue and does continue to turn out as many fine young men and women as we've seen in these years since I've been there. I think it's just—I think it's marvelous. And you know, I work on this college campus so I'm around young people a lot. But you know it's not really a very noisy school. Have you ever had a chance to walk through it when all the students are there?
Not when the students are there. No.
When you get an opportunity, do it. It's not like people think that teenagers are loud, noisy, and wild. Some are wild, yes. But we need all of that. We need the serious ones; we need the ones that are mediocre; we need the very smart ones. We need all that to make them well rounded. I think that's what the world is made up of. I think it's a fine school, not just because I went there but because it truly is. I think most of our schools are very good schools. But I think you always have to have teachers that are truly concerned about the students as individuals. That's the key, I believe, and I had those kinds of teachers.
Your children had—.
I think my children had those kinds of teachers. I don't remember all of their teachers' names, but I certainly remember them being there for them and supporting them and guiding them. I think it was a very good experience. But teachers like anything else, just like nurses, people have changed. People used to be truly dedicated to certain things. Some people are as not dedicated as they should be. I believe teachers are underpaid. I think they should get more money. Nurses should get more money too, by the way. But I really do. I think they work very hard, and I think in these times they have to not only be the teacher, but in many cases they're the sociologists, or the doctor, or the mom or the whatever, or the dad. I think we need to look at that because they control some of the things that our future will be guided by, which are our children. Teachers are not esteemed enough; I think they need to be more esteemed.
Do you think that their job is more challenging now? Is that what you're saying?
I think of those that want to learn in a classroom; it's okay. I think
the teachers can handle that without a problem. For those that don't
know whether they do want to learn, I'm not saying they don't. They just
don't know whether they want to learn or not, I think that's when the
challenge comes in. I think when they're disruptive. I think when
there's the fear of danger or guns or knives or fights or whatever. I
think all of those things disrupt the normal day for the teacher in the
class. I think if there was a way we could bridle those kinds of things
that learning would be more interesting for our students. We've got to
remove the fear. There's a lot of fear now because young people have
guns. We know this from the news. Young people do get angry, and they
express themselves. They do not know how to channel how they feel.
They'll take abuse out on
To turn a little bit to another subject. When you mentioned thinking about the school and teachers and the sort of role of the school in the community, it seems at the time of integration there was an idea amongst some people that by integrating schools, you could create a new and different community. I'm interested especially in whether that was realistic and whether that worked beyond the school.
Well, I think some of it was realistic and some wasn't. I think what
happened with integration for some, I don't know exactly where it
started or how it started. But I think there were some people that felt
like this is an opportunity for me to be forgiven for all my sins of
treating people and my family had slaves. For others it meant, I can
change the world I can—give me young boys, black and white—I can change
them; I can mold them into wonderful people. I think everybody went in
there with a set of rules and regulations for themselves. I don't even
know whether it was really said other than getting a better education. I
don't ever really remember anyone ever expounding on why we needed
integration other than it was a mandate, a law to do it. It was to get a
better education. I think that our teachers—it's like many things—it was
thrown in their laps, and they had to deal with it. And overall looking
back, I think they dealt with it very well, considering the training and
planning they had for it. Because you're not trained—you're trained to
teach, period. You're not trained to integrate people and make them get
along and know all of their problems and concerns and things like
It seems to have worked very well.
Well, thank you.
It's interesting to—. Again I'm asking something I'm asking a lot of people related to West Charlotte. One of the things that I find very interesting about West Charlotte is that it's very unusual within Charlotte in that it's a historical institution that has stayed in the same neighborhood, only one move. It has been there for more than fifty years. There are not many things in Charlotte that can make that claim. I'm interested in what that means or what the significance is to the community in having this institution that has this kind of history to it.
Well, for one thing, it belongs to us. It belongs to the community. It
belongs to the West Side if they want to call it the West Side. It's
West Charlotte. Many people don't have children, but they still support
what we're all about. When we support the school, we're not supporting
the black students at the school; we're supporting the students. When
the band needs something, when the football team needs something, when
the choir needs something, we're supporting the school. The alumni
association came about because they felt like there needed to be some
point of interest that was historical. The auditorium was named after
Mr. Blake, and I'm sure there are other areas on there. They're getting
ready to do a Wall of Fame, and that Wall of Fame is going to be right
down in the lobby area. I think there's just so much pride. I think
there's so many successful people, really successful. Not poor little
old me, I'm talking about people that are lawyers, and judges, and
doctors, and teachers, and all that stuff, and have their doctorates and
all that. They came through West Charlotte. Anybody can tell you back in
the forties how the situations were. People were poor all over the
world. But still, that was something if people could get to school and
get an education. The parents pushed it. You cannot, not have a feeling
about it even if you didn't get to go there. Right now, I have a niece;
I have a great-nephew and a niece. I have a niece at West Charlotte.
Sherrill Courtourier, a very bright young lady. She's just getting
promoted to the twelfth grade. It's just like when we found out she was
going to West Charlotte it was like, 'Yes!' We have a great-nephew and
hopefully he will get there. It's just so much pride because I think
they didn't forget. And sometimes you can get around and start talking
to people and they begin to reminisce about their teachers, and how
things were, and how they'd go to school, about how they wore their hair
or pull out a yearbook. Some old yearbooks,
Were you part of the original organizers of the alumni association?
No, I was not. No. I was not. I think that was the class of forty
something. They, many years ago, were sitting around talking. Someone
else may be able to give
I guess the alumni association is nice too because it draws people from different neighborhoods and churches I guess. It brings people together.
It does. In fact, like I said, we're having our triennium this July 4th weekend. We have people come from all over because it's just something they want to do. They pay their money and come. Well, we have a speaker and a luncheon and all that. We're roasting, I'm calling it a roast. We're having a lunch, and Leroy "Pop" Miller is going to be the, I forgot what we were calling it. Anyway, he's our person of choice for this year, this time. We're just really looking forward to that. Because he was there when I was there. He was there when my brothers were there. He was a very colorful person.
What do you remember about him?
I remember, he would say 'Gentry, come here girl.' I would just be like,
'Oh, he just gets on my nerves. I don't want to—Yes, sir.' That
attitude. He would always see you when you didn't see him. He would
always catch you when you were wrong. But he was never rude; he was
never mean. He was always a very, very kind mind. I was short for a very
long time. I'm only five-two now. I think, his height intimidated me a
bit. He's just as friendly now when you see him. He never forgets a
face. He was just a very good person. He taught shop. I remember that
class. I didn't have a class under him but everybody knew Pop Miller.
Everybody knew Pop Miller. I remember my husband, well he wasn't my
husband at the time but John said he had built something in shop. And
John said, 'I had done a fine job and Pop gave me a C. And this other
guy had done something, and it was awful looking and he gave that guy
like a B.' And John said, 'I
Now did your parents participate in school activities much when you were there?
No. My mother went to Second Ward and my father went to like the seventh or eighth grade. He was from South Carolina, Spartanburg, South Carolina. But my mother graduated from Second Ward because we only had Second Ward then. We didn't have West Charlotte back then.
I guess when you were in high school when your mother had passed away.
Yes, she had.
Would your father come to events?
Yeah. He would some but you know not a whole lot because my dad worked two or three jobs. His main thing was providing for us, which he did a good job with. My sister, my older sister would support us in a lot of things. And we always had representation there. My older brothers and sisters or sometimes my grandmother would be at something, if we were in something.
Well, I think that was pretty much kind of the things that I was interested in knowing about. Is there anything else that you think is important to know about the school or about your experience or anything?
Well, I think overall my experience was a very rich one. I wouldn't give
up not one minute of the good things or the bad things. I think that
most people that went to West Charlotte, my husband for one, can name
just about everybody that went to school there. I just think it's
something that's a part of our lives, and we'll never forget it. Some of
the most important years of our life, or my life anyway. And I think
those years were very important for my children. And should I not be
blessed with any grandchildren, I never have anyone else really that
close to me to go to West Charlotte, I'll be okay. But if I was to have
children and they were living here in Charlotte, I would certainly want
them to at least try. I know they'd get a good education anywhere but to
let you know how we feel about it, for this souvenir book we're doing
for the luncheon for Pop Miller, we all did advertisements to pay for
the book you'd put in an advertisement. I put in there something in
reference to a long line of West Charlotte graduates, and I had all
these people, my brothers and sisters and nieces and nephews and things
that had graduated that had, my nephew Thurston Frazier is a lawyer and
he finished Andover in Massachusetts. He went to prep school, but I had
him in there the year that he did attend West Charlotte. Cause they tell
me once attending, you're always an alumnus. We're very, very proud of
that. Not just because it was a black school. It's just something that I
think we pick up on that we want to continue as a family, have a legacy
of some kind. I think it's sort of like. It's sort of like a fraternity
or sorority. You know there's a bond there, and you kind of reach out to
people and do what you can for them. If they need
One thing you said that I wanted to pick on, you said that there's a very important lot of years in your life, which I think high school is an extremely important time. If you were to think of yourself, the person that you were when you went into West Charlotte and the person that you were when you came out, how would you compare?
I think the person going in was shy, was not a great decision maker,
possibly could stand her ground some. But the person coming out was
strong, proud, able to stand her ground and able to speak out on issues
and let people know that I felt important and I was just as important as
the next person. I also would say that I came out with a lot more
knowledge than what I went in with, a lot more book sense and common
sense. That was one thing too, common sense was important. It was fine
to be great and make all As, but if you couldn't come in out of the rain
then that was not too good. So I think I came out
Would you say that was similar to what happened—would you say that everyone had that journey or similarities?
I think there were some similarities, but I think everybody had their own journey. Some of my friends wanted to be married. Some of my friends wanted to teach and many of them are teachers. Some of them didn't succeed in teaching. They learned that was not what they wanted to do. I think all of us succeeded in life in raising our children well, in understanding how things work, in giving the other fellow a chance to at least speak on the issue whether you're going to believe it or not. At least give them a chance and try to hear the other fellow. I think we came out of there with that. We know that you don't get anything for free. You've got to work at it. If it's a book, you can't hold it on your head and tell me what's in it. You've got to read it. Those things are very clear to me, and I think they're very clear to a lot of people that all the time you spent in school was preparing you for something that's worthwhile. You cannot doubt it. You hear about people that came from such and such a place and the self-made millionaire. Well, that happens once in a while. It doesn't happen every day. I think that anyone now you have to have some kind of foundation. I believe if I wanted a career change right now, I believe my foundation is strong enough from West Charlotte and the other schools that I could, it would be a rough road probably, but I could go out there and make a go of it.
This is wonderful.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.
END OF INTERVIEW