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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview K-0273, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
Kong Phok fled the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia with his family when he was very young, eventually arriving in Greensboro, North Carolina, at the age of nine. In this interview, he recalls adjusting to his new life in the United States, describing some of the cultural differences he encountered. He describes his work at Guilford Mills before the plant's owners moved it to Mexico. He recounts his struggles with discrimination at the mill, which he soon overcame, eventually earning a promotion to production manager. Conscious of his own good fortune, he treated his workers fairly and with kindness. This interview offers an instructive, if brief, look at North Carolina's mill industry from a different perspective: that of a recent immigrant to the state. It also offers insights into a Cambodian-American's effort to find a balance between his loyalty to his birthplace and his devotion to his adopted homeland.
Cambodian-American Kong Phok describes his experiences at Guilford Mills in Greensboro, North Carolina.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
Today is December 19, right?
Yes, 19.
That's 2000. I'm at the Greensboro Buddhist Center. This is Barbara Lau. And now see, I've forgotten. You said that people call you Tommy, but that's not really your name. Tell me what your name is.
My real name is Kong Phok.
Okay. And also, we're with Phramaha Somsak Sambimb, who's sitting in on the interview, and is going to help ask questions. So maybe you could tell me, do you know what day you were born?
I was born March the 6th, 1976.
And where were you born?
Battambong, Cambodia.
I understand that you left Cambodia when you were very young. Do you remember, or has your family told you the story about how your family left Cambodia?
Yes, but it's very long time. But I try my best to answer. My parents, we stay in Cambodia, I think in the refugee camp for I think at least one year. Then we move to, I think it's Philippines?
Thailand.
Thailand.
Then Philippines.
Philippines andߞ
Were you very young when your family left?
Yes, I was very young.
Does your family talk very much anymore about what happened in Cambodia?
They did tell us once, but they try notߞ you know, it was very bad back then, and they don't want me to remember all those bad thing happen. But if I ask them any question, they would answer any question I ask, which I don't ask too many. All I ask is just how many sister, how many brother do I have. And we do have a big family, you know.
How many people left when your family left?
Total we have eight family. And I have threeߞ I think two sister or one brother die. And I have one, the oldest, in Cambodia, which he's still living right now.
So one still lives in Cambodiaߞ
Yeah.
ߞbut some were killed during the Khmer Rouge time?
Yeah, killed, cause of starvation.
They died?
Yeah.
So when your family went to the refugee camp on the border, how many of you were there?
That Iߞ
You don't remember?
ߞcouldn't remember.
Okay.
I have a bad memory, I guess.
Well, that's probably, like your parents sayߞthey're not necessarily good memories.
No.
So you were saying that you then went to a campߞ after in Thailand, you went to a camp in the Philippines. Do you remember how old you were when you lived there?
I think I'm around like four or five, I guess.
So you spent a couple of years in the camp in Thailand?
Not that long, but pretty ߞ
And then did your family come from Philippines to the United States then?
Yes.
And where did they settle? Did they come directly to North Carolina or a different place?
If I remember, I think we came down here first.
To North Carolina?
Yeah. It was my uncle who went to California before he came here. But I think my family came down here to Greensboro.
How old were you then? Do you remember that?
I think I was eight or nine.
So you were old enough to go to school?
Yeah, I came here andߞ
And did you have brothers and sisters then that came with you?
Yes. I have one older sister and one younger brother.
So the three of you children and then both your mother and your father?
Yeah, Mom and Dad, yeah.
And then you said you had an uncle that went to California. He went to California first?
Yeah. He came down here before my family did, and came here a couple years. Then I think he sponsored usߞno, actually, the Lutheran Family sponsoredߞ bring our family down here, yeah.
Then he went to California with his familyߞ
Yeah, he chose to live in California.
With his family or by himself?
With his family.
Just one year, then he came back here.
Oh, so he stayed there for a little while, and then he came back to North Carolina?
Yeah.
Do you remember what you thought about North Carolina or the United States when you first came here?
When I first came here?
Uh-huh.
Well, it was my first time in America. If you're talking about right
now, I mean,
A good city.
Good city.
When you were little, did you go to school right away?
In North Carolina?
In North Carolina.
Yeah, I start offߞ actually, I start off in fifth grade. And then actually, I was kind of young. Then the teacher asked me, well, how old I am and stuff. And then it wasߞ the age wasn't qualified for the fifth grade, so they dropped me back down to third grade.
Were you in ESL [English as a Second Language] classes?
Yes.
So when you came over, did you speak any English at all?
Not at all.
What do you remember from being in elementary school? Was it hard because you didn't speak English?
Yes. It is very hard. I mean, [as a ] kid, you know [you] get pick on. They'll pick on you. Yeah, it was very hard to learn.
Well, what happened to you? Did the kids pick on you? What kind of stuff did they do?
Like you know, not talkingߞ pronouncing correct words, and not able to communicate with them very well. They justߞ we just different, that's all. That was back then, though.
Were there other Cambodian kids in your class then?
Yes. There was a couple Cambodian kids.
So were you able to be friends with them?
Yeah, we were friends. Some, they shy. You know how girls are, our parent trainߞ I mean, teaches most girl, they're shy, and they won't talk to you even though you're the same, Cambodian, you know, but they won't hardly talk to each other becauseߞ
Because you're a boy?
Because a boy and girl, you know. But if boy, boy, is okay.
That our tradition.
Right.
Yeah. That's just the culture that's ߞ
Do you remember the name of your elementary school?
Yes. Vandalia Elementary School.
Was there any particular things that stick out for you, memories of your elementary school, things that happened, your teachers, or things that were good or bad?
I would never forget the first time I saw snow. I think my teacher was
kind enough. She told everybody to sit down, but she was kind enough for
me to go outside and to play with the snow, because it was my first time
seeing snow. She let me play out there. Everybody was staying in the
classroom. I would never forget that. It was kind. It was her
So it was pretty exciting, then, huh?
It was exciting, yeah, for me.
Was education important to you when you were a little kid?
Yes, it was very important, because every single day when I get home, my parents will always remind me, you knowߞ cause since they came down here, they not speak any English. Dad was working two jobs trying to support us. Mom wasn't working back then. A few years later when we stayed down there four or five years , she got a job, which didn't pay that much back then, and they support us. They say education very good. You have to have it. I always think about it every time I go to schoolߞI mean, that's in high school, but talking about elementary, we didn't know anything about skipping and stuff. When we high school just kid always skipping and stuff. I mean, I'm not perfect myself. I do skip and stuff, but I chose, you know, not too far to fail the class or anything. It always in my memory, every time when I do something wrong and stuff in school, always mom and dad will always pop up in my memories.
Reminding you that the schoolߞ
Reminding me it's important what they are.
Do you remember what kind of work your dad was doing when they first moved here?
Oh, wow. When we first moved down here, he was working in a restaurant, and a janitor in some kind of hospital. I couldn't remember the name right now.
What kind of place did you live?
We was living in an apartment, which is I think one bedroom and oneߞ
So a lot of people in not a lot of space?
About five people.
What kind of neighborhood? Who were your neighbors?
The neighbors?
Did you talk to your neighbors?
We try to talk, which at that time I was young. My older sister which know a little bit more English than I do, and my parents always tell us to respect others, and always try to talk to your neighbor and get along with them. My sister, we always talk. We have friendly neighbors, and we talked to them. It is kind of hard, because my sister, even though she know how to speak English and understand, English is herߞ like I said, her English weren't that perfect yet. We have good neighbors, and we do get along with them very well.
So you didn't have any trouble in the neighborhood really, with people thinking you were really different or you didn't belong here, or anything like that?
No, we didn't have a problem.
That's great.
I'm glad we didn't have that problem.
Did you hear about that from other people though? Was that a problem for some other people you knew?
Yes, I heard.
What kind of experience did they have that they would tell you about?
They would have problem like, you know, the neighbor doesn't get along
with
So your parents really encouraged you to work on getting along at firstߞ
Yeah, getting along, that's the number-one thing.
Did you spend a lot of time hanging out with kids in the neighborhood, or mostly just with people in your family when you were little?
Hang around with kids in the neighborhood.
Did they influence you, do you think?
A lot.
In what ways?
Well, when I was young, going back to high school, I was involved with a lot of gangs friends and stuff. It was like I told my brother, like I tell myself, you know, it's not them who can make you join, it's you who, if you chose not to, you're not. I do hang around with them, but I'm not turn myself to be like them. I'm just being their friend, but not like a best friend. I'm playing around with them, but I'm choosing a smart way to, you know, to choose my life, what I want to do with my life. They can't force you to do it if you don't want to.
Did that kind of stuff start when you were really little? When you were in elementary school or junior high? If you were to go back to just a little bit and think about, when you were eight or nine or ten years old, then as you got a little bit olderߞ
I didn't go to school at all when I was in my country, because it's not like school over here, you don't have to pay for school unless you're going to college or maybe have a scholarship or something that will help you. But back then in my country, I think you have to have money in order to go to school, if you don't, you can't go to school or maybe ߞ
So when you left elementary school, what did you like about that? I mean, were there certain subjects you liked or certain things you liked about school then? Or was it just something your parents wanted you to do, and you kind of had to go?
Well, a little bit both way. I was excited when I started in elementary school. I was excited. Number one, to ride a bus, and two to meet friends and stuff. I thought the school was good, which it is okay. I mean, I love school, have good teachers, and meet a lot of friends, get to know a lot of people and ߞ
Do you remember things you learned about Americans then that were different from like the way that you grew up or the way that you lived when you first went to school?
The food. The food and the culture. This might sound a little personal,
but the way you respectߞ the way they give respect to the parents. You
see, our parentsߞ I mean, I have a friend which I think is good, I mean,
the way they treat their parents. They will try to get along with their
parents, like friend. Ours, we can't be friend with our parents. There's
some level that you have to be, no matter whatߞ how much you love them
and stuff, parents always parents. You can't like call the name by name.
I have American friend which I like the way their lifestyle is, you
know, his parents will try to get along with him, you know, and call
your parents by name, like first name. We can't. They'll
Did your parents when you were young try to teach you things about being Cambodian?
Yeah, they would teach us not to forget Cambodian, but not to take Cambodian the first priority, but try to teach us not to forget how w what they've been through. I mean, I haven't been through a lot. But my parents, my sister, they been through a lot. They try to not let us forget all about that. When we came to United States, even though we have a job, have a place to stay, try not forget where we were before.
What did they want you to remember? What were the good things they wanted you to remember about being Cambodian?
Good thing ߞ
Language? They wanted you to speak Khmer?
Yeah, they really wanted me to speak Khmer. But like I said, I didn't go to schoolߞ I learn how to speak Khmer. See, in English, I went to school for it. Khmer I just learned from people talking to me. I just 'cause that's my language, and I just learn it. I don't even know how to read and write, which I am mad at myself about. But I'm not really, really mad because I did not get to go to school or stayߞ wasn't that old in Cambodia to learn enough in Cambodian. But I'm trying to talkߞI try once to learn how to read and write with the Adjan or with other teachers, and I just couldn't catch on so fast. Cambodian is much harder than English, maybe because I learn English. I no read and write, but I think my language is very hard to me.
What else, what about religion? Did they teach you very much about being Buddhist?
No, not really. I mean, when I was small I went to church and all that. But to me, I believe it's just different religion. There's only one God. I mean, I go to church, I mean, go to temple. I mean, there's no hate, you just have to go. When I was young, those churches, they sponsor me. They help me with my family and stuff. They're real nice. I mean, temple too. Temple is good place. It's church. It's just you use different phrase, different words, you know, to make itߞ you know, church is church, temple is church, but it's one God.
So when you were little, did your family hang out with other Cambodian families or ߞ
Yes. They have friends.
Yeah. And so what kinds of things did you all do when you'd get together?
Talking about as family?
Uh-huh.
Most time, they'll talk, you know, back in the country and stuff, which I don't know too much. Mom and dad will talk, mom will talk to her friends. And her friendߞ most of her friend lived in the same hometown with her back in Cambodia. They'll talk. They'll ask, you know, how many family they have in the United States that's still alive. Basically, they'll talk about that and cook, and they'll talk aboutߞ
So what do the kids do?
The kids just play. We don't know anything about it. But that's me. I wish I could know more because I really want to learn more about it. Sometime I have to read Cambodian books to know about my own country. Sometime I very disappointed in myself.
When you were in school, were you interested in that kind of thing, learning more about Cambodian history or culture?
Yeah, learning different cultures. I very interested in it.
So did you do it? Were you able to do any of that in school, when you were, say, in high school?
You're talking about doing research?
Yeah. Were there any teachers who encouraged you to do any of that, or did you read any books?
Yeah, my history teacher, he encouraged me to learn, but not in
Cambodian. You know, like what school recommend, like the World War II
and stuff like French. But I
Did you do that when you were in high school? Is that something that was interesting to you, or did that come later?
No, that was in high school. I was trying to learnߞ if I can't learn from the book, but there's some new student who came from Cambodia which learned more than I do. I'll ask them how it is, how you know so much about Cambodia? How you know how to read and write? How come you're so smart? I mean, 'cause I know English already, they think I'm good with English, and they think English is hard. I think Cambodian is hard. So we switch about. He'll teach me some word that I don't know, or something that I don't know about Cambodia, and I'll teach him something about America. But we all from same Cambodia, which he knows more about Cambodia, he just recently came to United States, that's why.
So you had to learn sort of from your peers and friends?
From peers, friends, yes.
And your parents?
Parents.
So as you got older what high school did you go to?
Smith High School.
There were a lot of different kinds of people at Smith High School?
Many, many different kind.
What was that like? What was high school like?
When I was starting high school, school is a little bit too hard. I mean, a little bitߞ not hard as in study, but hard as in like getting along with people. Since it's like different people mixing, different grade level mixing, and it was very hard to get along with people Smetime you have to join a crowd or you have to [be] average person to be, to have a friend. I wasn't an average person. But sometime I seen people picking on other people, not only Cambodian, but African or whatever. It really hurt me. That when I disobeyed my parents, you know, stop sticking nose in other people business, that when I take action. I do stick nose in people business. I mean, that's wrong for me. I involved with a lot of things like that, likeߞ
It sounds like you were sticking up for some people, you know?
Not sticking upߞ I mean, not certain people. I don't care, like an American, I mean, this picking on not only like international people. Even in America, it's own people, they'll pick on. It would be like, for instance, like nerd and stuff, and that bothers me. That really bother me. I'll say something, even though that person is in my group or hang around me. To me, friend is friend. You have to understand how your friend feel. You can't force, or you can't do anything bad. If you want a friend, your friend have to understand where you're coming from. They have to accept that.
What kind of friends did you have in high school?
I have very bad friend. I have to admit it. I have friend who's in gang, who steal. I mean, the answer to your question, I mean, I hang around with a lot of bad crowd.
How did you get into that, do you think? What drew you to that?
Most the friend I have, they in my classroom. I was young back then, and I thought when I hang around with themߞ I thought education wasn'tߞ all I was thinking is to get GED for my parents, to finish high school. I wasn't thinking about college too much, but until I have family and job and stuff. What they require, bachelor degree, associate degree, now I realize school is very important. You have to get the degree. It doesn't matter what you know and what you do with those. Back then school wasn't that important to me, but my main goal was to finish high school for my parents, at least. And the kidsߞ back to your question, and sorry to have to skip like thatߞ andߞ
No, no. That's okay. Go on.
And to the kids, the reason how I get involved with them is cause, like
I said, classroom, student, you know, just classroom. I mean, sometime
you just can't say 'no' or say whatever, you just have to get along with
them. But you have to make the smart decision, not them make your
decision. So I hang around with them, but they never make my decision.
They always ask me, hey 'let's go, let's skip this, let's do this, do
that,'ߞmany bad stuff. Most the stuff, I would say 'no.' But they always
come to me and be my friend. I thought that if I say that they won't be
my friend, but they treat me better now these day. I meet with them,
they have family, some are killed. Some that I know that I meet, they
have family. They change too. But they wait until it's too late to
change. But I didn't chose their path. So after high school, I was
working. When I was in high school I was working so hard. I wasn't able
to do any school activities like play soccer or
Well, did you work because your family needed you to work or because you wanted extra money?
You see, most kids, they depend on their parents. I'm the type of
person, I like to depend on myself. I always respect my parents, but I
like to support myself. I would like toߞ you know, like my wifeߞ like my
sister, my parents chose her husband. Me, I disobey my parents for
choosing my wife right now. I mean, which she not dislike her or
anything. I chose my own wife, and I have to prove to her that she's
wrong. She's not bad or anything. In our country we cannot go out or
anything. Which I went out, but always go out likeߞ I mean, not take her
out. I'd probably go visit her house or anything, go eat or something. I
didn't introduce her to my parents unless about a year or two years
because I know how my parent is. You know, they want me to get married
to the girl who I don't love or anything. I chose my wife right now. I
disobeyed them for choosing her. I have a little brother having the same
problem like I do, but he's kind of confused right now. He wasn't the
same problem like I do, I was sticking with one woman which is my wife
right now, but he's
It sounds like your path with your parents started dividing when you were pretty young?
When I was pretty young. Yeah.
What do you think led you in a little different direction?
Not to say that I and my parents don't get along. Me and my parents get along real well. It's just the way I choose. Like cars, like they want me to get a certain car. They'll make an offer with me lߞ like if I choose this car. But actually, it's not the car that I want to have. But let's say they're willing to pay you know, half if I chose a car that they love. And I didn't go that way. I chose the car that I like, which I end up having to take care of everything, the insurance and the car payment which they just say that because I guess they want me to work hard. But if I ever downfall, I know they would be there for me. But I don't think that way. So far, I chose my way. Everything is okay so far. They really admire me too. They tell me every day that they really like what I'm doing, and keep on doing what I'm doing.
So you're pretty independent.
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. I'm a very independent person.
I guess a lot of Cambodian kids aren't very independent, or Cambodian kids that would grow up in a real traditional family. But it sounds like when you were younger you made some decisions. Do you think that was because you were around more American kids, or just because that's who you were inside, you would be that whether you lived here or in Cambodia?
That's how I am when I was young, I guess when I was growing up. It's
not because I hang around with friends. And I have Cambodian friend,
which that's their problem. If they chose to live with their parentsߞ
which is okay if you help. But if you're going to live with your
parents, at least help them pay rent. Some kid they just stay there,
just using their parents, which I, if I ever stay with my parents, I
probably pay bills and that. The reason why I move out of parents' as
soon as I got married, probably a year after. I think after I graduate,
I stay with them for three years, and then I move out. It's not that I
move out because I don't want to worry about them, it's just because I
want to start my life early, because life is short. You have to have fun
and do what you want to do, because you never know, life is very short.
I'm an independent person, and I chose to move out and start my own
family real early when I'm young. I mean, after I'm married. I had a
baby after my wife and me, we married. My wifeߞI didn't never give her a
chance to go to school, but I'm working on it right now, to find a good
job so she can go to school. It's not because she's married, we have
kid, it's not we're going to stop our life right there. It's going to be
the same. Since we have kid, we have to make plans. We have bills to
pay, and we have to make plans step by step. I'm only twenty-four. My
wife she's only twenty years old. She's young, and she's not
One at a time.
One at a time. Maybe I let my wife do it first . She's smarterߞway smarter than I am, so ߞ
So did you finish high school?
Yes. We both finished high school.
So you graduated, or did you get a GED?
I graduate high school. That's the main goal, no matter what I do, that's the main goal I have to get for my parents at least.
The guys that you were hanging out with in high school, were they Cambodian guys?
Vietnamese, most of them.
When people would ask you who you were, would you say you were Cambodian or would you say you were Vietnamese?
I would say I'm Cambodian.
I've heard that sometimes kids would kind ofߞ because people from theߞ
Yeah, who theyߞ
ߞlike Americans, they wouldn't know.
Yeah.
You know, they might not know the difference.
Oh, I would say I'm Cambodian. They'd have some people like Cambodian not speak Vietnamese and stuff, but they kind of think I'm Vietnamese anyway, but I always say I'm Cambodian. I never lie where I'm from or where I am.
Did you feel proud of where you were from or was that hard in high school?
I'm very proud of where I am, and high school, even though lot of picking going around and stuff, but I never let down like, oh, I'm not Cambodian, I'm something else, or I'm not Asian. What they don't understand when they callߞthis might be a little racial, but what they don't understand, you know, like they not only like American kids, they'll call us Chinese or Chink or whatever. They don't realize, Chinese, Chink, Vietnamese, Laos, Vietnamese, they are two different thing. We're not Chinese. We might look the same, but if you look, really look at it, we are different a little bit, you know, the way we look. It always one name that they use is Chink, which to me it really bother me. I even had a fight in school because of that too. I mean, I went to my counselor, Dr. Pember [phonetic], and she lecture me about how life is. When I was young I became the student of my teacher, Adjan, and he teach me. He taught me a lot how life is and stuff, and how respect, discipline. I think without him I probably end upߞ I don't know how my life is. I learn how to respect elders, how to control myself, my temper, and what to do when I'm really frustrated. You know, just have to have relax feeling. He taught me a lot of those when I was young. I became a monk for three months. He taught me a lot. I'm very, very thankful for him to teach me all those.
How old were you when youߞ it was you became a Novice?
Oh, I can't remember. I think I was fifteen.
Twelve, thirteen.
Twelve, fifteenߞtwelve, something like that.
So I were in monk for three months like in the summertime?
Yeah, for the summertime.
So tell me what your day would be like when you were a monk? What did
Well, he did this to teach us in a way. Every morning we'll go with him,
do a little ceremonyߞ pray. After that, we'll work. We'll wake up early
in the morning. He'll try to wake us up in the morning, because we
couldn't wake up. He'll knock on the door, bang on something. He'll wake
us up and we'll go. You see this temple right here, most of it is trees
and stuff, wood and forest. We'll go and cut it down. And we'll work
until lunchtime, until our only lunch. And we'll eat. At that time I
wasn't used to it. I wasn't used to one lunch. You have to eat, like
really eat. I usually eat two or three time a day. You have to really
fool yourself, and can't be shy when you eat. You have to eat, because
that's the only time you can eat. After that, you go back to work, I
guess. And some monk will go and take a nap, which I know my teacher
wouldn't like that, but I did rest some too because my first time work
because I wasn't used to it, and after that we'll work and stuff.
There's a lot of discipline going on. And you know, to me, I think I was
a bad monk , but he forgive me. He teach me and stuff. And every day I
still remember that, and I wouldn't forget about it, because without
him, without my parents, I don't know where I'm at. The reason where I'm
at right now, having good family, having good life is
Did your parents want you to come live at the temple, or was that a decision you made?
Come to be a monk?
Uh-huh.
Well, you can say both ways. I want to have experience as a monk. In our country, you be a monk, and like that, you call it repaying the respect to your parents, or giving your parent respect, because being a monk is so much different from being like you and me, you know, like regular person. It's so much rules, so many rules you have to follow. It's not easy to follow. I just want to have that experience. I'm a type person like in job and everything too, and I like to have a lot of experience, learn more. That's the only way to learn more, to have more experience. I try and for first month I thought it was very hard and stuff. I think, first because of the food because only one day that you can eat. And the second is just was very, very hard and like I say, there's so many different rules that you have to follow. I'm not used to that. It took me at least a month and a half or so to follow him. I break some discipline, but I was taught, I was punished. Being punished taught me a lot. Adjan, he taught me a lot, and I would never forget that too. One thing I won't forget was like when I was a monk it was like six seven of us, and we became a monk. And I have-
Was it for the summer, during school?
Yeah, for some monk, they will extend more than summer because they out
of high school. Because I was still in schoolߞ they were out of school,
and they'll extend like another three months or so. But you have to have
at least a week or so, if you're going to be
So you didn't leave even though it was hard?
No, I did not give up. Like I say, it was hard, but I did not give up. I don't give up easily.
It doesn't sound like it.
Uh-huh.
So after you graduated from high school, by this time, by the time you were in high school, were your parents doing better? I mean, you said your mom was starting to work. Had they adjusted to the United States, do you think?
Yes. At the time I was in high school, everything was real, I mean, not
perfect, but okay. We can support ourselves right now. Back then we were
living off like Lutheran Family Services. Now, when I was high school,
that was longߞ already long ago before weߞ you know how Lutheran Family
Services help us, give certain amount of money to buy food and stuff? We
were long away from that and in high school, my familyߞ when I was in
high school my family, dad was working. I think mom was working for a
couple years. When she had me in her stomach or whatever, she fell down
and broke her ankle and stuff. Right now she's still going to the
hospital. I take her every three months or so, go see the doctor about
her knee and stuff. Her knee is very bad, and they won't let her work.
But still she go and try and find another job, because in order to
support the family, we have to have two incomes. Sister is just working
part time to buy clothes and stuff for her and for us. And she worked
there for a couple years, and the company closed down. She try to
So what was all the stuff then going on before that when you were hanging out with the bad crowd? What do you think was going through your mind then because it sounds like your parents have made a lot of sacrifices for you and you appreciate that.
Yes, because back thenߞ
Do you think it had anything to do with how much you really got to see your dad?
I have experience with my brother now. I'm teaching him every day. It's
not
Did your parents ever think about leaving North Carolina and taking the family and going to a bigger Cambodian community or anything?
Never. They going to live here until their retirement because they think that Greensboro, North Carolina is a very good place to stay. They hardlyߞ to tell you the truth, my brother and sister, we never went to the zoo until we got married, until we know how to drive ourselves or go with our friend. My parents never take us. We never do any of those kind of stuff, never ever. We never even know what Busch Garden is until I got married. Me and my wifeߞ but my wife's side, they always travel, because why? They much younger than my parents. They are muchߞ
[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]
ߞthey're Americanized too. And like I'm saying, I'm not mad at parents,
but we never get to go anywhere like other family do. All we do is just
go to school, play in Greensboro. Most of the time I played basketball
and have time to just come to temple. But since I got married, never
have get any chance. But when I was young, I always come to temple and
watch, you know, my teacher. But now I got married, I know he understand
too
What do you think they liked about North Carolina? You said they don't speak a lot of English. And a lot of people who have that experience, they want to be just around other people who speak the same language as them.
I think they know a lot of family here that from the homeland, and that's been settled down here for a long period of time. And other thing is that it's going to be hard to find a job. I think that's the reason why they don't like to move around so much. They don't like to move around, I'm talking about in job too. They like to stay in one place or do anything. They just a steady person, my family isߞthat's the name to use, they're very steady, yeah.
What about the environment? I know you were talking about how you got to see snow here. And of course, it doesn't snow in Cambodia, but do you think they like theߞ
The weather.
ߞlandscape and you know, sort of theߞgenerally, is that important to them?
Yes.
Does your dad go fishing or anything like that?
Oh, he went fishing back then when Iߞ but I brother-in-law, he love to
fish. We went to fish too. But now he stopped doing that because he's
old. All he think about is sadness. He'll come to the temple all the
time. He doesn't go fishing no more since he really put himself into
like temple and stuff. He think if he want to eat fish, he'll go buy
fish. You could say he's a very religious man. 'Cause the old, they
don't know what else to do
So having the temple is really important.
Yes, very. To me, I'm happy. If I ever have money or temple is going, say, bankruptcy or something wrong, if I ever have is money, I would never let temple disappear, because I think it's good for my parents, because it's like Cambodian to them. It's like a Cambodia in America for them. It's very important, temple, to them. They would do anything to keep temple. And that's what they do in Cambodia too. They try to build a temple there. They spend so much money. Sometime they don't care about themselves, you know, to keep some money to themselves, they worry about Cambodia so much. That's why I help some. If I have some, I help. I just tell them not to spend so much, because like I say, they have family over here and we have is bills to pay too. You know, just help whenever we can. It's just sometime they help so much. I mean, I see them once they help so much they don't even have money left to pay the bills and stuff. And that's improving ߞ
So after you got out of high school, what did you do?
After I got out of high school, okay. I found me a full-time job.
Doing what?
Which is Gilford Mills. I was a machine operator. I'd been there for two years, then I got promoted to be a supervisor, a lead person. Right now, the company is closed. I found a job right now. I mean, I've been home for two months now. But they're paying me for severance pay package. I have like a package. They move to Mexico, my company. Right now I found a job which is a good job, but I'm waiting for the answer this week. They're supposed to let me know by this week.
Another mill? A different kind of mill?
You can say mill, but it's like a product company. Have you heard of Olympic Products?
What do they make?
Carpets, foam and stuff for carpets.
I haven't heard of them.
Like the pads and stuff.
But do you would work there running the machine or be a supervisor or ߞ
Production manager. Since I have the experience as a supervisor, I
always try toߞbecause I know how hard it is to be a regular worker. If I
be a manager, because I know what kind of person I am, I will be fair,
because I have a lot of experience under a supervisor who is likeߞlike
in Gilford Mills when I was a regular worker, they have a little crew, I
mean a little squad. Some squad is hanging around with the supervisor,
they always, you know, think about him, take care of them. Like come
late, they'll take care. I wasn't in one of those squad, but you know, I
feel sorry for others. I don't know why I get lucky, so lucky, always
meet a good person. I meet somebody who always care about me, or you
know, never want to harm anything, which my parents always pray every
time to let me meet those kind of person and stuff. And I have
experience as a regular worker, you know. It's always crook everywhere.
I'm telling you, even though they say, it's no equal ߞeven though the
job say it's equal employment, it's inside you don't know. I mean, I
seen what it is. We run machines. Though I've seen old people, they'll
work and stuff, and young people, because they know the supervisor,
they'll stay in the break room so long, let the old people
In Gilford Mills, were there a lot of other Cambodians that worked there, or was it a mix of people?
In my plant, there was only three Cambodians and a few Indians. In my father plant, which is Gilford Mills too, yes, they have a lot of international people, different people.
A lot of different people. When you supervised people, you supervised a lot of different kinds of people?
Yes, different. Yeah.
Did that ever create any problems for you?
Not really, because I treat people the same thing, except that you know,
it'sߞ even though when I talk to the Cambodian workers sometime in my
own language, they probably think that, oh, you trying to workߞI do have
those workers saying to me, oh, you take care of them because they're
your own kind and stuff, but I don't do that. But like I say, like my
boss tell me, there's always people trying to make you get mad at them,
because they're trying to make you jeopardize your job. It took me a
long time to get that position. I mean, I'm the boss, even though they
do that, if I tell them to do it, they have to do it. That's the main
thing. Why would I worry about what they say? I mean, I treat everybody
So how long did you work at Gilford Mills, then, before it closed?
I worked there for five years.
Then they moved the plant to Mexico?
Mexico.
So they laid you off, but they gave you a severance package?
Yeah. They did offer me in Mexico. But like I said, I have family here, and I wouldn't go over there for whatever they give to me, even though gave me a raise to go over there. But I just sayߞ I don't believe I can't find a job over here soߞ which right now, I almost give up, but I have several company calling me, which is a good position too. I'm not giving up yet. It took me two months and I couldn't find anyߞ no respond to anything. That's when it is hard. I should of taken the package in Mexico and stuff. So right now I'm kind of like lift up a little bit because I have three, four company calling me to have interviews and to offer me those position which is good pay, so I'm not really regret of letting it go.
Did you meet your wife when you were in high school?
Yes, I met her in high school.
Is she Cambodian also?
No, she's Laos.
She's Lao.
Yeah.
Did that create any kind of problems, I mean, going dating a Lao girl, with say, your Cambodian friends or other friends?
No. Really, back in the day I was dating, the only girl you could see is Laos. I mean, Cambodia is a good country and all that, but it's just back then, Cambodian, they follow their parents more than the Laos girl back then when I was dating. That's the reason why I say my parents was having conflicts between my wife and stuff because she was Laos, and you know, how was Laos girl back then in the day. But that's back then. But now it's changed.
So the Cambodian parents wouldn't let their daughters date, is that what you're saying?
Not daughter, but guys. Mostߞ
So even their sons, huh?
Yeah.
You weren't supposed to date?
Yeah, even the son and the guy. It's not that we hate each other. This again might be a little racial, but every parent always want, you know, your kid to get married like Cambodian/Cambodian, Laos/Laos. But to me, they don't understand. Like I said, they don't understand what love is or whatߞit's you, yourself, even though they pick for your spouse, you have to pick for your wife and stuff, it's you have to spend time, who have to live with your wife, not them. But when I talk like that to them, it's kind of disobeying them. I never, ever talked to them like that. But that's how me and my wife talk. That's how we chose to have own place and to get married, because if we won't get married, you would always hear people talk behind your back no matter what, you do good or bad.
So you kind of found the middle ground there?
Yeah. In order for that to stop is to get married. That's the reason why I got married too, because I wanted my wife to go to school, further school. But it's too many rumor, and it's too much stress like that. And I don't wantߞI mean, my parents very, very care of what people say about me. They really care. They not like most parent, oh, don't worry, you know, don't care at all. You know, they really care. That too much stress for me. So I just talk to them and said, okay, I want to get married. Stay with them for one year and have my own family, have my own place. I always go visit them every single day. Just start my own life and just prove to them that we love each other and we can support each other.
How old were you when you got married?
I wasߞ
How long have you been married?
I've been married for two years now, so I think I wasߞ
So you were twenty-two?
Yeah, about twenty-two, twenty-one, yeah.
She was eighteen?
Yeah, she was eighteen.
What kind of wedding did you have? Cambodian? Lao? Both?
We had to do both.
So you had two different weddings?
Yeah, two different one.
One with her family and one with your family?
One. Well, it's one whole wedding, but in that one whole wedding, we just do it two different ways at one time. You get what I'm saying, right?
Uh-huh.
Okay. Not like marry Cambodian then the next year Laos, not like that.
So did you have the wedding at her house? What did her family think about you?
Oh, they like me because of Adjan. They come to temple too. They ask Adjan about, you know, my mom. Adjan knows everybody in the community, you know. And some people, they likeߞ especially my mom, she'll come and ask Adjan, how's my wife, you know, family and stuff. Adjan will tell her whatever he think of them. She always take Adjan word, you know.
So your parents and your wife's parents might see each other at ceremonies at the temple, but you guys live separate from both her parents and your parents?
Yeah, we live separate. But they always kin. Like I said, my mother-in-law's side, they're Americanized and it's hard for them to communicate, because they are two different nationality, talk different languages. Only thing can do is just smile at each other and stuff. But getting along. They have nothing against each other. It's just that they don't see each other very often because of the communications.
And how old is your son?
He's a yearߞI mean thirteen months and a week.
Was everybody very excited when you decided to have a baby?
Yes.
Both parents, both sides?
Both parents. Actually, my father-in-law, he dreamt about it too. Because myߞ he want his daughter to go to school and stuff. And we just want to have own family, start a family early. I thought he would say something to me, but instead he didn't say anything because it's like his dream come true or something, because he was dreaming that he was having a grandchild.
Is your wife the oldest child in her family?
Yeah. That's the oldest child in my mother in ߞ
She was the first one to get married in her family?
The first one, yeah. And the next step, her little sister got married.
So your son is the first grandchild?
The first grandkid and grandson in the family. So they love him so much.
You said before that the temple was really important to your parents. Is it also important to you and your family?
Yes, very important to us, temple.
You said alsoߞearlier, we were talking about how you think about yourself, you think about yourself as Cambodian-American?
Yes.
Why that instead of Cambodian? How do you figure that out?
Because I spend so many my lifeߞI mean, you can say more of my lifetime
in America than Cambodia, but I am always Cambodian, would never change.
But I celebrate every holiday like American people do. Actually, I'm
doing everything almost exactly the same like American. That's how I
consider myself as Cambodian-American, because I spend
Do you sometimes feel like there's a struggle there, or you're being pulled in different directions?
No, never. I never had that problem.
You just kind of bring it all into the center?
Yeah, just I have people ask me all the time, just say, how you feel? You think you're American or Americanized, or whatever. I think I say I'm both. I'm Cambodian and American, I guess. That's how I feel. Maybe it's not like that, but that's how I feel.
What kind of people ask you that question?
Friend, workers, people who you know . See some people, they won't admit to themselves, you know. They don't believe themselves like Cambodian or Cambodian-American or Americanized Cambodian or whatever, because that's two different thing. I am Americanized Cambodian, and like I said, I'll respect, I'll cherish, I'll do everything Cambodian, but right now I consider myself as Cambodian-American, because America is like my country too.
What do you think about your son? What will you tell him?
I'm not going to tell him. I'm just going to tell him that you both.
You're Cambodian, Laos, and I'm not going to teach him what, hey you are
Cambodian, you're not Laos or anything. It's up to him. It's not up to
him if I keep on telling him, yeah, you're Cambodian or whatever. Like
myself, I am Cambodian, Laos and American, you know. I mean, it's not
Cambodian only, I'm Laos because my wife is Laos. I have, you can say,
two different blood because I'm not really American blood, but I
consider myself American. But
Are you teaching him to speak Khmer? Do you speak Khmer to him?
Yeah, I talk Khmer to him because I don't know how to talk Laos. If I knew how to talk Laos, I would talk to him. I try to tell my wife to talk Laos to him, but sometimes she'll talk, but most time she'll talk Cambodian. See, lmy wife, she very smart. She know how to talk my language. I don't know how to talk her. Sometimes she'll talk Cambodian to him, and I say, okay, if he learn Cambodian, don't blame on me. It's not my fault.
But if he doesn't learn Cambodian, he won't be able to talk to his grandparents, right?
Yeah. I'm kind of figure he's a pretty smart boy. I mean, he is very smart kid, and he'll learn both. He'll talk to his grandparents in both ways.
What hopes do you have for him in the future?
The way I'm raising my kid up is a little bit different from my parents.
I'm not saying my parents raised me to be like bad. And they are good
parents. But like I said, remember I told you about they don't take us a
lot and stuff you know, to learn about different places and stuff. I'm
going to be different from them. I'm going to travel a lot. I'm going to
take my kids. I'm going to let them know what zoo is, what Busch Garden
is or what different playful stuff is cause kid need to have fun. I'm
not going to spoil him. But if he does good in school , he's going to
get award. I will, do that to him. That's the only different thing I'm
going to do different from my parents, is that me and my kid, we going
to be friend. He's not going to call me by the name, but I want
It sounds like they've had a pretty serious life, you know, having to go through the war.
Yeah, yeah. I know. That's why I say I'm not mad at them for not being what I expect, because if I was in their situation, their shoes, it's going to be hard for me to change just like that. I'm give them time, and it's up to me to make them happy.
Have you become an American citizen?
Me, I'm waiting on the paper that they supposed to send to me. I went to apply for it. But it been a long time already, and I haven't get the card yet, the American citizen card.
Do you think that's important to become a citizen?
To me? Yes and no. To me, it doesn't matter if I do. I do want to be
American citizen because, like I say, I am a Cambodian-American. I want
to have something to show that I am an American citizen. To me it's not
very important to be an American citizen or not, because people afraid
that when war go they'll send back to Cambodia to me. I mean, to answer
your question, it's not very important to me, but I'm trying to get it
right now. I
What about your parents? Do you think they have any interest in becoming citizens?
Well, they really want to, but what they say is it's too hard for them. Dad, he tried to andߞ
English?
ߞyeah, his English. They tried their best, and theyߞ you know, that's number one, theyߞ
Has anybody encouraged you not to be a citizen, or that that's somehow not a good idea?
People out there always want to be a citizen. It's just, can you be a citizen? That's the question right there.
Do you think you're going to stay in North Carolina for a long time?
Right now, in job-related, if I can find a job that takes care of my family, I would. But if I have a better job that pay me better, you know, I'm talking about good pay, good salary, I probably would relocate myself. But it's going to be hard because my parent wouldn't understand me either. But like I said, I have to do what best for my family.
So do you consider North Carolina your home then?
Yes, my retirement home, yes.
Your retirement home?
Yeah.
But you'd move if the economic situation were different.
Yeah.
What are the things that you like about North Carolina?
Well, I develop my life here. I spend most of my life in Greensboro, North Carolina. I do have the blood like my dad, you know, like to stick with one stuff all the time, not try to move around. And I do have that instinct inside myself andߞ but North Carolina, I mean, it's very good. I wouldn't let it go for anything if I don't have to. I would try to stay in North Carolina.
Are there some other people who have moved here from other Cambodian communities like in Boston or in California that have described what that's like, and how does that maybe compare with the experiences here in North Carolina?
I have friend who move down from Boston . From what they told me, I think Carolina is number one, because the way they talk about crime. You know, crime-related, it's a big issue, crime. So in North Carolina, you probably have once every, what, five years or so, you know, have a big crime. But that's the reason why they move down here to live, start a family down here, because North Carolina is good.
And have you had any experiences [with] discrimination in jobs or in the mills that you've worked in because you're Asian?
Yes, I have. I have that experience. I overcome that experience, you know, what happened.
Can you tell me what happened?
Well, when I first started, I mean, like I say, you know, you get pick
on. And you get to say, you know, Asian, they think Asian or whatever is
dumb. And they can use
You were just telling me about experiencing a little bit of discrimination when you were at your job.
Yes.
What that was like? What happened and how did you dealt with it?
Okay. About the break time and stuff, about the policy of the company and stuff. They think I don't know the policy of the company, which I know the policy of the company. They will try to trick me. Hey, you need to go back before I tell the supervisor, this and that. As I move up, I got promoted. That's why I told myself I would treat everybody fair, no matter [what]. That's the reason why I want to get a supervisor position, not because I stick up for my own people or for the international people. I would try to treat everybody fair. In order for me to do that is to become somebody, you know, become a supervisor or something, to be in charge.
So what do you hope for your own future? What are your goals?
My goal is to raise my kid to have everything for them, not to spoil
him, but to have everything what my parents didn't have for me when we
move to United States. So I'm trying to find a good job that we can rely
on until our retirement, and I guess to go further school to get my
degree, and have, you know, decent money in case of emergency.
Do you think you have a responsibility to the community?
To me, I do, because Adjan, my teacher, he taught me everything. And I didߞ became a monk at the temple, and actually that's like my second home, temple. I mean, we do stuff. I do stuff around here. I help so much at the temple that I feel like that is my second home. I have so much relationship with Adjan, which is my teacher. I would never let that go. And yes, temple is very important to me.
So that's the important thing doߞto make contributions to the temple?
Yes. That's the only thing, because the monk do not work like you and I. The only way is to get contribution and donation. That's the only way to pay for the temple and to keep the temple, which I want to keep. That's the only way to help out.
Do you think that outside the temple, in the greater-Greensboro community, that young people have some kind of responsibility to represent the Cambodian community because you can speak English?
Some kids my age, they don't even care about Cambodian or temple. They have their own way. But me, I have my own ways. I'm going to stick upߞI'm going to keep the temple, and I will follow the rule. Right now there's more kids who doesn't care where they're from or the temple and stuff. There's more of those people than people who care.
Why do you think that? What's happened to them?
I guess it's just rumor. I guess their parents just don't teach them,
just don't
And what do you think is going to happen to those kids who have kind of lost their way?
I guess they will forget all about what temple is, where they're from. I guess just most of those kids is probably just parents not telling them every day or once in their lifetime share with them what temple is, where they're from and stuff like that. That's the reason why they're like that. You can't blame them. Maybe they have other problem that you and I don't know. Maybe they chose their life to be that way and I chose my life to be this way.
Do you think you'll be happier than they will?
Yes. Right now, yes, because I'm married. I don't know where they're at, all my friends who I know. They everywhere. Some in jail, some just couldn't make it. I'm going to continue doing the way I'm doing and caring about people. That's the main thing that my teacher and my parents, everybody, old people, elders teach meߞto have respect for others. That's the only way for you to live happy, or to live happy and [to feel] good about yourself.
That's great.
END OF INTERVIEW