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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview K-0279, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
In this interview, Bernice Cavenaugh and her daughter, Betsy Easter, describe enduring Hurricane Floyd's flooding and its aftermath. They tell a story of fear, confusion, and frustration that reveals a lack of preparation, disorganized and inequitable government compensation, and significant challenges to community bonds. Cavenaugh and Easter evacuated late, having heard nothing about the flooding until it was at their doorsteps, and their efforts at relief proceeded with little help from equally overwhelmed neighbors, who, according to Easter, are generally unhelpful anyway. Government help arrived in the form of inadequate and limiting loans from government agencies and Marines who completely cleared out Cavenaugh's house, despite her desire to salvage some property. The two plan to be better prepared next time and to clean up without help. This interview offers useful insight into community dynamics and flood preparation and paints a vivid picture of the bureaucratic confusion that followed the confusion of the flooding itself.
Bernice Cavenaugh and her daughter, Betsy Easter, describe enduring Hurricane Floyd's flooding and its aftermath. They tell a story of fear, confusion, and frustration that reveals a lack of preparation, disorganized and inequitable government compensation, and significant challenges to community bonds.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
Let me just say again I represent the oral history program at UNC in Chapel Hill. And these tapes that we're recording will go into the Southern Historical Collection, which is a library, basically, where there are tapes that people can listen and learn from for educational purposes.
And say there's someone who wants to do a research paper or write an article about what happened with the flood, or even a book, or a video or whatever, they can go and hear the stories of the people who experienced the flood through this. And, anyway, that's one of the purposes. And we hope somehow the community might be able to use this information, too. And, so, if you have ideas about that let us know.
And so, it's—just to start the tape—it's December 7th 1999 and we're in the community of Northeast and we're sitting in a FEMA trailer in the backyard of Ms. Cavenaugh. And you'll have to tell me your whole name. I don't remember your first name.
I'm Bernice.
Bernice Cavenaugh. And this area was completely underwater right where
this trailer was sitting right at one time. But, you—if I could I'd like
to get you to tell me something about the way you came here first. Were
you born in this community
No. My husband was from Northeast. But I lived about five miles down the road.
And you—and when were you born? What year were you born?
Twenty-seven.
What date?
December 23rd.
Almost on Christmas
Almost Christmas [laughter].
And so.
I like that.
So Chris if you'll do me a favor and try not to comment during the recording. That'd be nice. Okay? But, yeah, I'm glad you're listening. The—so you were—. What was the name of that little community five miles down the road?
I don't know if it had any.
And did you grow up on a farm?
Yes.
And what kind of farm was that?
Just a regular farm. Dad grew mostly tobacco. Tobacco was the main crop.
And corn and beans like they do now. And he had a lot of produce. Always
said he grew that to keep us all busy. [Laughter].
Did you sell the produce, too?
Yes. He sold it.
He was a truck farmer. And how was it? Was it hard growing up on the farm? Did you enjoy it as a child?
Well, I didn't like to work on the farm because back then it was not like it is now. You know the grass was so terrible they couldn't—. Now they don't even chop it, you know, with a hoe anymore. It was so hard to chop. And they didn't have things to cut up corn. And we had to pick up the corn stalks and things like that. And we—. But during the school season we didn't have much to do because my dad was real interested in us having an education. And so he didn't—. The boys maybe worked a lot. But we didn't, the girls didn't. So he wanted us to do good in school.
Right. And where did you go to school?
Chinqua-Penn.
Okay. That was the name of it, Chinqua-Penn School. And it was all the grades together?
All the grades together.
First through twelve?
Well, they really—. I was the last class that went eleven years. The next year we didn't have a graduating classes.
You went all of your eleven years in that school?
Um-hmm.
Is that school still there?
Still there but they discontinued that school about maybe five years ago.
Is that all? It stood there and was used as a school until—. That was an old school.
Yeah. It could have been longer than that. But I think five years.
And so after you finished school what did you do? After you finished the eleventh grade?
Got married.
Right after school was out?
After school. That was during the war and my husband was in service. And my teacher had written to Greensboro for a scholarship because I was—I made real good grades. And she was getting this scholarship from college and I really wanted to go. And you know back then those soldiers could really persuade you to get married. So I got married.
Right. This is right after he got back from World War II?
No. We got married before he—.
Before he left.
Before he left. Well he was already in service. But we got married when he knew he was going to be shipped overseas.
And he—what year was that when he was shipped overseas and when you got married?
Forty-five.
It was '45 the very last year of the war. Well while he was gone what did you do? Did you live at home with your parents?
I lived with my parents and his parents both. And I worked down at a drugstore in Wallace.
And so that was just for a couple of years, one year he was gone and—.
He was gone two years.
And then after he came back is that when you decided to farm? Or had he already—?
Well, he had already—. I think that was already on his mind. But then we—I had saved all the money he had sent home and we bought a farm in Oakley Bowden. That's near Warsaw.
Okay. Northern Duplin County?
Uh-huh. We bought a big farm up there. But—.
Are you expecting someone? Am I right?
No. I just saw—I think it's Betsy.
Okay.
Yeah. I was expecting her.
Hi. Here's Betsy coming in.
Into the cubby hole. That's all right. Just keep it in the middle and I'll sit on the edge here.
There's probably plenty of room. That's unlike some microphones won't tip over. That's the nice thing about it. Good for group conversations. So we were just talking about the first farm that they bought up in
Bowden.
Bowden in the northern Duplin County. It was a big farm. So how many acres was that? How many—when you talk about big—.
I don't remember.
Hundreds of acres, [kitty meows]
No, not. [Kitty meows.]
And so you stayed there how long?
Two or three years.
Was I born? I was down ( ).
Well while we're on that, how many children are there in all?
Three.
Three in all. And they were born mostly on that—let's see.
No. Just Betsy was born—.
Betsy was born on that one. And then did you decide to move here to Northeast?
We decided to move, yes. And, well, the reason we did was because he had relatives there. And they all were selling their farm. That's the reason he went there. And then when they sold the farm and they left. So he didn't want to stay any longer. So we sold the farm and came back down here.
( )
That's a good reason to come back. Well what did you think when you were gone? Did you miss this area? Did you miss Highway 41 and these two communities where you were from?
We missed it, yes. We missed it a lot.
And what was it about it that was different?
About this area?
About this community that's different from up there.
I guess where we were it was kind of isolated. There were no people around much where we were. And we were young and so it—we just didn't like being like that with no one around. And then when his relatives—his granddad and all sold their farm—he just didn't—we didn't want to stay there any longer. You know if we'd been older and had more wisdom we probably would have.
And so who all lived here that you came back to at this point? We're talking about a five mile area. How many different family members lived here?
His parents and my parents and all of my brothers and sisters and all his brothers and sisters.
All around here?
Most of our relatives.
That's a lot of—.
Plus everybody was Cavenaughs up and down this road. If it wasn't immediate family you still had all of your distant relatives.
Right. And did y'all get together regularly so that you saw one another.
Yes.
You all went to the same church.
Yeah, uh-huh.
And is this the church right up here?
Um-hmm, Northeast.
Northeast Freewill—.
Penecostal Freewill Baptist.
Penecostal Freewill Baptist. And the Cavenaughs as far as you remember all went to that church? They even helped build it. Is that right?
The majority did.
And what year was that built? You said earlier. I forget—.
Well it was established in what 18 what 50 so or 60 so.
( ). I don't know.
No. We didn't get into the history of the church.
Oh we didn't.
We got off on other—. That's one of the problems, you know, you ( ).
But then I also told him we went ( ) the church. No. I probably told Rob that.
Yeah. You told Rob.
They originally built it. It was a wooden church and built the brick church. And then the brick church burned. When? In the sixties. And then rebuilt in what?
Well, yes, it started it was just a little old church with a little wood heater. But I don't really remember the year. I have a history of it somewhere. But—
But it was—way back when it was like the hub of the community, I think. Not necessarily so now.
Boys and girls all gathered and—.
Dated, courted then.
So what is the history of the community? How far back can y'all go? How did people talk about this being settled the first time? For instance, is there any—?
I'm sure some of the older ones know. But I don't really know.
Well I doubt even the older ones know that much that are left. You know, maybe if it were our great-grandparents or something. But—and you know, somebody like grandmother or granddaddy may have known.
I know Russell English has a lot of the history and Doris—.
Russell is a person that you'll be seeing and he knows a great deal.
Okay. He has some of the facts like that. But as the main thing that we're talking about is how you knew there was this sense of community here and the Cavenaughs lived here and you came back to that. And there was this feeling of belonging that you had that you didn't have up in Bowden. This supper club—have you been part of that?
The supper house?
The supper house.
No. I belong to the auxiliary, the one that established it, you know, together—.
Fifty years ago they started—.
( ) but I was not active in the cooking and serving.
Kathleen wanted to know where we were last night. She said only ten people showed up.
Last night? Was that the—.
They had a—I guess their first meeting with the ladies auxiliary up at Mrs. Mack's house that you met earlier.
To talk about renewing the custom. Because of the flood it was discontinued. But now they're starting again. That's what I understand. Okay. So you started—you bought land here. Is that what happened? Or did you move back in with the family members?
You moved to the Kelley house?
We just rented when we first came back.
Sold that farm up there and then rented here?
Rented, yes. And then we later moved in a house that belonged to his dad ( ). No, down at the ( ).
Not the Duke house?
Yeah.
You went to the Duke house after you left this house up here.
That's what I said.
And then across the road.
Okay. So you lived in three different older houses before building up here.
Uh-huh, in '60.
In '60, this house we're right behind. Okay. So by then you had all three of your children by 1960. And all of the family moved up here to this brick house? Okay. How many acres do you have here?
I think it was about forty.
There's a hundred all together. Eighty here, right, and twenty over there?
( )
[Laughter]
A hundred acres?
( )
Maybe it hasn't been surveyed.
You're including all the woods and the ( ).
Oh, what you're saying probably is how many acres there are in fields.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because you know the agricultural amount. And then Betsy is saying the total amount of swamp and everything. So when you first started farming this forty acres of open land you were growing corn and beans. Did you have tobacco?
No. We had tobacco but my husband sold the acreage. He worked out at Steve ( ) and farmed too and then later bought the turkey houses. So he didn't care about tobacco, working with tobacco so he sold that tobacco lot.
But actually when y'all—when he was working at J. P. Stevens, he didn't have these—he didn't have the turkeys. He didn't have that land back there.
Okay. So he worked in a textile mill?
Right.
Where, in Wallace?
Um-hmm, J. P. Stevens.
And that—he worked in there and got his retirement there and everything? Okay.
But, in the meantime he bought the turkey houses and more land back there from his cousin, and then he started farming.
Right. And he farmed and he worked J. P. Stevens.
Did both.
And then you got the turkeys and started growing for Ramsey Poultry.
Nash Johnson.
Nash Johnson.
And I was a hairdresser.
Okay. And so where did you have your salon?
I started across the road. But then when we built the house I had a room built for that.
My granddaddy had the old store, country store, across the road where the fire building is. And the supper house originally was in that along with the country store. And right in between it was a little room sandwiched between the two. That's where she had the beauty shop. So then my aunt took the supper—. No. The ladies' auxiliary built the community building over there. That's where they started having the suppers. And my aunt took over the supper house that was here and decided to just make it a restaurant and do it five days, six days a week, whereas, the supper house only did it one day a week. So, and then, when they built the house here she moved over here. And forty years almost, I guess, in this house, no thirty.
In here?
Um-hmm.
Forty. It was built in '60.
In 1960. So it'd be thirty-nine. Soon to be forty, wouldn't it?
And she's been out of it for about four years now.
Out of the business? Oh, okay.
My husband, when he got sick I had to stop and take care of him. So I—. And then later went in and started taking care of turkeys. And I'd never taken care of them in my life.
How many years did he have the turkeys?
I think it was '72 we bought the turkey farm.
Okay. And what was his name?
Norwood.
Norwood, right. I should remember that.
Grandpa, Grandpa. He's my grandpa. He's my grandpa.
Right. And that's Chris, his voice we hear on the tape. The main thing
that we're talking about and want to talk about is your memories and
experiences of the flood and the recovery and how that has gone. And I
wanted to talk a little bit about what was here before we get into what
was destroyed. So maybe now would be a good time to talk about your
memories of what happened. And, I know Betsy has been active in a lot of
this, too. So, you want to start going through the story of how you knew
there was
We didn't know it was going to be a flood. It certainly wasn't on the news.
Well that hurricane, you know, came on Wednesday night.
And tell me the date.
Fifteenth of September. On the fifteenth of September. Well the sixteenth—.
Was a beautiful day.
Was a beautiful day.
Y'all had high winds on the fifteenth?
Fifteenth. It did a lot of—.
It blew over some trees but you still had your houses. They were in good shape. Nothing damaged really.
Yes.
Sixteenth was a beautiful day. The water wasn't even up at that point.
Well water was—. It had rained so much that the water was standing and it was gushing in lots of places. Like going down my driveway it was probably that deep.
I think—.
Person is here?
( ) go tell her I can't go out.
[Recorder is turned off and then back on.]
Okay. I paused it during that. So it was a beautiful day on the sixteenth. The water was gushing through the ditches basically but not—and standing a little bit in puddles but not so much that it caused anybody to worry. What did you think when you came outside? Did you think, "Well we got through this one okay?" Can you remember saying that?
Oh yes. I—well I was concerned about my turkey houses, you know. The water from there was behind one of the houses. But I kept looking at it and watching it on down. It was fine. So we went to bed that night and not thinking about anything like a flood.
That was okay. All day Wednesday no word about the flood.
Thursday.
Thursday. Did you have any electricity and news at that point? Were you—.
No. We didn't have any electricity at that point. Hurricane—we didn't have any electricity after the fifteenth. It went off sometime during the night, I think, of the fifteenth. But anyway on—. We went to bed. Betsy was at my house because of the electricity being off and just staying with me. And so about three o'clock my daughter- in-law from back here called and told Betsy to go look out of the window. And she—her dogs had awakened her because—and so she got up to see what they were barking at. And it was water.
Good gracious alive.
So she called and—. So Betsy looked down and it was coming under the carport. So then about four o'clock a fireman knocked at the door and told me to be ready—told me to—that I had to get out.
This is Thursday still?
That's Thursday night. That's Friday morning.
Four o'clock in the morning.
Four o'clock in the morning.
A fireman, a volunteer fireman from the community?
Um-hmm.
Okay. From like the firehouse right up here.
And said that we had to get out. He said that a truck would be up here after you if you want to go on the truck. But if you don't go now you'll have to go on a boat. That's how fast it was coming up. So I just grabbed the clothes I'd been wearing that day and ran in the bedroom and got my purse. And so we just left like that on the truck. And he took us to his house. It was one of the firemen. He had a big truck. And he took us to his house that's just about a half a mile down the road. The water hadn't come up there. But while we were there the water came up there. It was coming up so fast that we had to leave there.
Were the roads still passable at that point in the community?
They could—some of these big trucks were going down. But mostly then they were using boats to pick up the people. Because when we were up at their house Betsy slipped down and came back to her house and came back to her house and got some more things.
So as I understand it you didn't have time to put any of your valuables away—.
Nothing.
In a place where you thought they'd be safe.
Not one thing. And, you know, that's the thing that really got us both or a lot of us, because some people had enough warning had enough sense to know that they still had some time like our neighbors to get some things moved up. Now as far as mother and I were concerned, you know, you just never really felt like water would come in.
But I remember I had taken a box of old pictures from my house that were taken back—they're black and whites from my youth. And I had brought them over here during the hurricane so my daughter could look at them with me. And I remembered they were on the floor. And when they were telling us we had to leave and I'm saying, "I can't go right now. I've got to think through this." Because you know there are some things that need to be taken care of before you walk out of that house. But they kept saying, "No. This is the last ride out and you've got to go." I remember picking up that box of pictures off the floor and putting it on the stereo. And just—. But never thinking really it would come in there. And the thing of it is—what astounded me is how many people really did get furniture up. But then some of us left and never touched a thing.
When you left when the volunteer firemen came in, did he really know at
that point that this was a disaster in the making? Did you have that
sense when he was telling you? Or was it that they were saying for
precautionary reasons we better go to
Well it was rising so high until, I think, not only we but the firemen were overwhelmed. And they had never experienced anything like that before. And they were not really prepared. So they didn't know, you know, really they did the best they knew how trying to get us out. But I don't think that they really thought it was going to be like it was.
See what I had been told was starting at around—Skipper Fields had been going up and down this road and Gary Cantrell. And they had been monitoring the water rising. And see I didn't know this until today. At six o'clock in the evening Thursday evening the water was already up in Matt and Earl's building. And they left that night. They had to get out that night. Well, Thursday night.
Well, see the Duffs over here did too.
They were out on Wednesday because by Thursday you remember we were picking up pecans and they were all over at the supper—at the fire department. And saying that water was coming up in their house and their yard and they had to leave. And we're going, "Well, poor things."
And you know there were a lot of people that went into the church for
safety when the hurricane—for the hurricane safety. And while they were
there—they were in the fellowship hall in the back of the church. And
the water started coming in there on Wednesday night. And they had to go
upstairs. And then they brought them here to the fire department. And
they brought two of the elderly ladies over here to stay
Oh I know, they were like elderly. And they had to be moved about four times.
That's got to be confusing to them.
Bless their hearts while they were sleeping on mother's bed the bed broke down. And I went in there to get them off but because of the flood. You know, the firemen were there to get them. And I walked in and turned the light on, and I said, "You ladies need to get up. We've got a flood on our hands and we need to get you out of here." And one of the ladies said, "Well, Betsy, this bed broke last night. We didn't do anything. It just fell."
They didn't do anything but stayed in it.
It just ( ) and her head was way down on the floor. But as far as the firemen they—what I understood was they had these that were monitoring the water coming up. Some of them were in the fire department. So they started letting all the fellows know. But with the emergency management they would not give them an okay to move people out until they started right at about, what, three-thirty four o'clock. They started getting out Mack and Imerana down here next to my house. And then, you know, different ones.
A. M., right?
Uh-huh, A.M. And then by four-thirty I think they came and got the elderly ladies that were staying with mother. And then they came back for us about five or five thirty.
And then where did you go after that? You got in the fire truck am I right about that or another kind of truck.
Well, actually a neighbor's.
Just a big truck. He took us to his house. It was one of these houses—one of these trucks that you saw next door, the electricians' trucks. He took us to his house. And then when we got there we went to my sister-in-law's in Wallace. And so we didn't- -what was it, two weeks, before we got back out here?
We walked back in, or I did, Saturday morning after we left Friday ( ).
Eight days then.
Saturday morning was enough. I finally came down here to the feed mill and I was going to beg somebody to please carry me in. But at that point—.
A boat at that point or was it—?
No, no, because I was surprised when I got there you didn't—couldn't use a boat, but it would take a high truck to get in.
Okay, so standing water.
Yeah. But—. Has he seen any pictures?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's coming in the truck now.
Have you seen any pictures of the flood?
I haven't seen them.
You haven't?
Your pictures or—no, no one's in the community.
Gracious. When I looked down I didn't know it was like that until I
looked at the pictures. Delores had good ones. She had some where
my—Betsy had
What else do you remember that struck you so much about the pictures when you looked at them for the first time?
I just couldn't believe it when I would see that just the top of the houses. You know, the water had come up and all you could see was the top of the house.
This—well, when Rob and I were riding around I showed him and told him a lot of things that you missed out on. But one of them was down here at the store that was flooded and across the road there are those big trucks. I saw pictures where actually you could see—. I mean they were in the boat on top of the water and you could see the tops of the cars.
That's wild.
And what struck me a lot [clattering noise]
I'm sorry to interrupt. Do you remember which direction that one cemetery that we spotted with the American flag in it?
The one that's ( ) the American flag in front on it.
Across on the opposite side of the road and there's an American flag on it. It would have been set back off the highway just a little bit.
Was it that little road that—? Was it the little road that we went down that the church was on?
I don't think so, no. It's on 41.
I think it was down that way, Rob. I think it was down toward—.
We're not far from the—. Well, here's the fire department. Where is the restaurant? Is that down this way?
Uh-huh. It's on the other side of the fire department.
So it's right here though.
Maybe we saw it while we were in the back on the car because we—.
No. We were in a truck.
( )got a new truck.
No. He was—.
After we got in the truck ( ) that way.
Okay. I'll be right back though.
Okay. [Mixture of voices. Unable to discern. Recorder is turned off and then back on.]
On the tape and just say—because some other people would be transcribing this. So I want to say that Betsy's mother has now gone out of the room. But Betsy Easter is now going to continue on with the story that we started. But, also, tell some of her own history about growing up in the community and leaving and then coming back. Now how long it's been that she's been here, what her job is, and then get more into the story of the flood.
Okay. I came back in '90 after being gone for about twenty-five years.
[Coughs]
You went to school where?
At UNCW.
That's right. Okay. And you worked in social work or what was your field?
Right. Well my degree was in psychology and, you know, I primarily worked either in social work or with developmentally disabled population.
I'd like to say something if I could. She works for SS Incorporated in Wilmington, North Carolina. ( ) for SS Incorporated.
Okay. Thank you, Chris.
( )
All right. Let me finish so we can go home and take Chris home. And what has happened is in all of this time I have not really gotten back involved in the community purposefully. You know, I'm—when you've got this many relatives living up and down this road and there has been a lot of bickering.
And I'm just not that kind of person. I'd rather be in the woods somewhere. Bound to a garden or whatever than I had to get involved in that. So I have not been, but I think the people know that I'm a very caring person. And, you know, I'm out in the community working with other people, you know, that are more handicapped and so forth. It's been kind of strange to find myself in this predicament with this flooded area and how I have reestablished a lot of the relationships with the people that I didn't have before then.
So you were living here but you really didn't talk as much to people? How about going to Cavenaughs and that sort of thing? You just didn't have the same social circle.
No. I'd go down to the supper house and get something to eat and bring it—well, I'd get it and bring it back home. I'd go to Lib's once in a while, the woman next door, very rarely, but once in a while. I did not go to the church. I might go to a shower occasionally if I was invited to a baby shower, wedding shower from old friends growing up. But the most part I really didn't want to be associated with. I just planted my trees and tried to stay behind them.
But you had—the house you live in is one of the Cavenaugh houses. But it wasn't your parents' house.
Right. No it was my great uncle. See my granddaddy lived across the road. I have two uncles lived one across from the supper house—or this supper house here. There were two supper houses.
All right one community one and one privately owned one. I'm getting the picture. And they're both called supper houses.
Supper houses. That's right. And then another great uncle that was right on the other side of the supper house. And then the great uncle here and the great uncle that lived in that house. So all the brothers—my granddaddy's brothers—lived right around here. And my dad ended up buying that land, the turkey houses and the old house from my cousin, my great uncle's son.
The turkey houses were already on it?
Yes, they were. Those turkey houses are very old. And I've just basically maintained a very private lifestyle until this flood. Now I think evidently in cases of disasters—not necessarily that people are thrown together and come together anymore so. But there's something about it that does bring people together. You can't help it. I mean, you're thrown in together. Everywhere you went after the flood you saw your neighbors. And it was like you know, you'd just grab hold of them and say, "How are you?" You know, "What are you doing?" Because you didn't know what happened to—how many people did they say? Six hundred people up and down this road. You didn't know what happened to them.
Six hundred.
Well, actually, there was between eight hundred and nine hundred throughout Duplin County. But see, there were a few flooded places in Wallace. A few flooded places—. Well there was Chinqua-Penn and, I think, a few flooded places in Beaulahville. But this was the main nine mile stretch that got flooded. And they're—like I said earlier today, there's about five miles of that that's Northeast community.
The other four miles, does it have a name?
Chinqua-Penn.
Chinqua-Penn, okay. And how do you describe—? Okay. A lot of them are Cavenaughs. What kind of people are those eight or nine hundred? Can you—?
No. Eight or nine hundred in Duplin. And then there was about six hundred of them—five or six hundred along this stretch here, say five or six miles.
Okay. Those five or six miles then, let's talk about them. Were they— how would you describe them if you were to tell people who'd never been here before what kind of people they are?
Well we wouldn't want to put that on paper.
[Laughs]
A community that knew each other businesses too well.
[Laughs]
That kind of thing.
That's why you chose to be private. Now that—. Okay. That tells me something about their close-knittedness. Then what kind of—how did they make a living and what sort of skills did they have? I mean, what kind of lifestyle did they lead?
The majority of the men are either farmers or some type of self- employment. There are very few men along this road that work out at a public job.
Your father was an exception then working at J. P. Stevens.
Yes, but, even then he, you know, he still had his farming. That was really what he cared more about than he did at J. P. Stevens.
What sort of skills does that mean that these people have?
Well they're not—a lot—a lot of the—I'd say a lot of the men
particularly are not high school graduates. I'd say probably most of the
women graduated from high school. Most of the women in the past—and
still a great many of them are—I don't like to call them housewives.
But, you know, basically on that order. A lot raise turkeys and raise
hogs. The ones that don't are electricians or construction workers. You
know, have
So they rely on their hands a lot for making a living and they—. Are they hunters? A lot of hunters in the community?
A lot of—quite a few. But I don't think so much now as there used to be.
Is there a lot of open area? I mean you say you like to go out in the woods. Is this a community that knows woods skills? Can they—would you put them in a category of people who could survive without electricity better than some people?
No, not really because you've got a Wal-Mart and that mentality. You know, I don't know if that says a lot to you. But to me it does in that everybody likes— wants to be comfortable. And they are comfortable. They don't make a lot of money. You know, this is definitely not—. We've got three or four people in the community who are fairly successful. But for the most part they're happy with building onto their homes, you know, make it a little more comfortable. Go to Wal-Mart and buy all the latest little gadgets and fill their homes with it. And they have a new car and, you know, everybody's kind of happy. They're content—content and complacent with their lives just, you know—.
As they are.
But they are not a very friendly community for the most part. Most people stay to themselves. They really do except the church people. And those are the ones that you really have to watch out for.
Are they evangelical? In that sense you mean watch out for them and that they're—.
No. How they use their tongue.
Okay.
Yeah. And I probably wouldn't say as much about this if my mother was here because she thinks I'm very critical of the community. And I love the people because I grew up with them and because I love humanity and I know everybody for the— basically are pretty good people. You know, they just never really learned how to make things better amongst their neighbors. And they're not very giving outside of the community. They're—.
They care for their own. If there's a funeral—we've talked about that. If there's a sickness in the family, what do they do?
If there's a terrible sickness people will come by. If there's a death people will come visit and go to the funeral, send food. That's about it, you know, except for what few people work at the supper houses and that kind of thing. But just people really stay to themselves. Although I find much of America getting like that because, you know, ( )—.
Absolutely.
( )
Maybe worse, I think. Okay. So you said when the hurricane came people began to pull together because they had to.
It seemed they were pulling together. It really did because neighbors hated neighbors a lot it seemed. And then all of a sudden you were seeing these neighbors sitting across from each other and conversing.
At a—.
At—.
A shelter or—.
Yes, at different places and particularly the church that we ate for so long.
Okay. How about the church? I mean the church tends to be part of the problem. But they also are part of the solution in this case.
Right. Well this was a different church. This was out in Wallace.
Okay.
And what it has led—.
You doing all right?
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah. He's doing really good today. I'm proud of him. He's—.
You're learning a lot today probably.
Yes, I have.
( )
Okay. So we're at the Posten Baptist. Why do you think they got involved or what's going on?
That was one of the first places that they started taking people who didn't have anywhere to go.
To live?
To stay once they were evacuated. See like in our case, we moved down the road in with a relative or friend for a few hours. And then the water started rising up behind their house. So we went to my aunt's house in Wallace. But many people up and down the road, all of their families live right here. They really—many people did not have a place to just drive right off to, to go to. So they were—.
It was like an emergency shelter. They set it up. They were feeding them. They were getting cots out. And it became a center, actually. So I guess that place probably stayed open for two weeks—two or three weeks. But in the meantime they opened up the elementary school, which was right close by as well. And what we were seeing was a lot of blacks and Hispanics went in that direction to the elementary school.
But we found that the majority of Northeast, the native residents [door opening]
They actually had cots there set up and—.
Yes. They had cots and food. And Matt and Earl said today—. See their
rest home is right across from that church. So some of the volunteers
would go and clean up over there. I don't know about residents. I mean
the people who were actually staying there that were without homes. But
what happened though during that time they started serving food at
nighttime, lunchtime and nighttime for everyone. And then once
( )
Oh, that's right. They did on Saturday. I don't know about Sunday. But they did that for close to ten or—ten weeks or so. So that was a real central place for people to come together—for the neighbors here to come together.
Even though it wasn't here. It was somewhere else. And how far—how many miles away?
It's four, four or five probably from here. And it's like if you're going back in town where the big Food Lion was on the right. It's right behind there.
Okay.
It's a nice size church but—.
( )
Well just a minute.
That's the only place we could see one.
So that's an interesting event where everybody's getting together. But you're getting together somewhere else. It's like you're all visitors somewhere else. And you see one and all homeless.
All homeless.
But it was a way that you could get information. You could find out what
your neighbors were doing. You could find out what FEMA was doing or
wasn't doing
Can we use that as an outline to talk about what you were learning, what you have learned? You said, where people went—that's where you learned where people went. Can you say some of the places you know where they've gone? We're talking about hundreds of people.
After—?
Can you give some examples of where they went, where they are now, where they're staying? They're not in their homes, but some of the strategies they used— staying with relatives for example.
As far as Mount Olive—. Do you know where Mount Olive is?
Yes, I do.
Some of them were living even in Mount Olive. Some were at Kingsville, Beaulahville, Rose Hill, Wallace, Lyman. They were just scattered. Went with relatives and anywhere they could find an empty house that was furnished. Betsy she had friends in Hickory and Boone that brought her down furniture and furnished her house.
The house was furnished ( ) by a friend free to start with.
I had some friends that let me have a little—a travel trailer. It was not as large as this to stay in until I could get this one.
But those people even who were staying as far away as Mount Olive might come back sometimes to the church?
Oh, yeah. Well they would come—.
( )
Well they—. See they'd have to come back out here everyday just about to—.
Tend to their jobs, you know.
Or their jobs or to work on their houses or to empty their houses. To try to figure what you were going to do.
So when people came back to their houses they were still working mostly alone as a family. Like when you wanted to clean out your house neighbors all didn't gather around.
No, no, no, no. Because nobody—. I mean everybody's so inundated with all that they have to do. And then most of them had to worry about their families, family members. You know, whether it was children or their parents or their grandparents' homes. They had to—. Basically what you're seeing is family helping family. Now if you don't have much family then you don't get a lot of help. But within that second week, or actually that first week that we could come back to our houses, there were volunteers from everywhere. So many volunteers you didn't know what to do with them. The Marines came. And that isn't a time when everybody's emotions were to the highest point.
Positive.
No. Just like very emotional.
Negative. Very emotional.
We were very confused.
Confused, emotional. You know, you felt like you were really in a fog or in a dream and things are just kind of going on.
( )
Yeah. Things are just kind of going on—yeah. All these things are going on around you. You just really were not totally conscious of. You were in there doing it but you just weren't there.
And what happened with me and what happened with a lot of people is these volunteers came in and God bless every one of them. But because we were all so confused—many of us—and just overwhelmed to say the least. We were being told by the state and the local health authorities that everything was so contaminated you couldn't save anything. Throw everything. Don't touch anything. Wear boots, wear gloves, special gloves, da-da-da-da. So, you know, here are these volunteers.
Well actually what happened with myself on Tuesday, my mother and I and my sister came over here for the first two or three days and would pick at things. You know, try to pick through it and try to figure out "what in the world you're going to do" because it was so nasty and gross. Then I remember on Tuesday my daughter from Wilmington came down. And a friend of hers and my youngest daughter and we started cleaning out and pulling out. But, I mean, we worked two or three hours and it was a killer because everything's so wet and nasty. Then the next day my fifteen-year old daughter and I came over and started working.
You have two daughters? Is that right?
I do. And we—a couple of hours of working and you just couldn't carry
but a small load at a time because it was so heavy. And everything in
the house is so
This is a week or so after? Is that when you first went back.
Right. It was on—.
That Saturday you were talking about going back.
That was a Saturday and the Tuesday following that, the Wednesday following that. And about that time though I saw five Marines walking up in the driveway. So that's when I started letting people carry things about because I knew that it would take me forever and forever. And emotionally I didn't think I could do it.
For that next week that's what happened in both our houses I guess, wasn't it? As a matter of fact, she and I had people come in our houses the same day. So she had to be here and I had to be there. I couldn't see what they were carrying out of her house. I couldn't even see what they were carrying out of mine. And we lost a lot of stuff because, you know, you just—.
You're just awed.
They threw out all of our furniture and—.
Well, a lot of the furniture may not have been salvageable though. But there were some things that were that were senseless to throw away. But, you know, we couldn't figure out why anybody would throw a sewing machine away that had not been underwater. We couldn't figure out why they would—. There's lots of things, you know, that—. But you just didn't know what to do.
Mostly Marines would have no idea about—.
Well there were church groups coming in by the end of the week, weren't there?
Well there was that group ( )—.
Yeah. My oldest daughter—. Yeah. That was probably a disaster. The demolition group—the people that I was telling you about. And before they could start pulling everything out they helped us throw things out. And they just came in and. I mean they had that house wiped out in no time. It was gone. And then they started tearing everything out saying that it needed to come out.
I saw one woman out next to the road going through a pile out in front of a house. It may have been the owner of the house. Did y'all think about doing that?
Is that recently?
Just today. Going through the pile—.
I saw a woman. Was it down here maybe?
Yeah.
I saw that and it's Miss Laura's old building. And they have started finally emptying stuff out of there. And I think it was somebody from the trailer park probably going through it because there was a lot of that. People, I mean, some lady stopped and asked us if they could have the couch out of the pile. And I said—well, it insulted me. It was like, "No. If I can't have it, you can't have it." I said, "Besides that, it's contaminated. You don't want this couch." But the next morning it was gone. So they must have gone back. They took my couch out of my pile.
When they threw—in my house they threw the clothes in a pile and some of
the things, the higher up things—. And my daughter was packing the
things that were— Wilmington Star reporter. And there I was
looking—.
Looked like a farm girl.
Looking terrible and sorting out those clothes. So he wrote a story and
put my picture of the way I looked then on the front page. [Laughs]
What was the story about?
Just about everything. But one thing that he highlighted was the
insurance. He said that I said that I had paid the insurance for, what,
fifty-five years and I spit—and I didn't say that. [Laughs]
Oh is that right?
Yes.
You did have flood insurance though?
No, but we had storm—the turkey houses had storm. The hurricaine ruined my curtains.
But they went around and found things that the storm damaged that was ( ) and then gave her insurance money for that. But I was complaining because our insurance—. And early on, you know, I was feeling like the insurance company's out to come in and bail us out, which was a laugh, of course. But, at the same time, I was bellowing everywhere I went, you know, "Our insurance company is going to take care of this." And then she or I once said something about she had paid insurance for all those many years and had never used it much. You know, just very little. ( )
This was to ( ).
Uh-huh.
Okay. All right well that—. We got a lot about where people went and so forth. What about SBA? You found out stories from people about that. And you also found out—you mentioned FEMA. And that fits with the insurance companies' neglect. But when did you start thinking that, "Okay, the church groups are giving food and they're giving help that may not have been so helpful at times because they didn't know— ." They didn't have experience with this, it sounds. They just didn't—they threw out everything.
Well, they were—.
FEMA is supposed to have it—. Excuse me. What were you going to say?
They were just like—they were like we were because the state health and local health departments, you know, had so frightened everyone because they said that, you know, it was so contaminated everything.
Do you think that was wrong? Do you think that it wasn't really that contaminated. You could have cleaned it up with Clorox and it would have been fine? BE and
Umm-hmm.
As much as we could we saved things like that. You know, they were saying, you know, "Don't save any plastics." Well I didn't, I guess, because I think mine got thrown away. But there were a lot of things I remember looking at going in that trash pile and saying, "Why does that have to be thrown away? It looks to me like we could clean it down." Your roller chairs that go to your computer table, just nothing wrong with them. And I remember standing there looking at them and just going, "How can I replace these?"
But I don't know if everybody was like this. But in my mind because we had heard—this was in the first week after the waters had gone down. We had heard enough by that time to know—. Matter of fact we—most everybody had registered with FEMA because immediately—. We were evacuated Friday morning and by Friday afternoon we were at my aunt's house. And by Saturday night, Saturday we had called, hadn't we?
Who had you called?
FEMA. Because the word was already coming in—.
Call this eight hundred number.
Yes. Call FEMA. FEMA is your federal emergency management agency.
In Raleigh. Did you call an office in Raleigh or was it somewhere farther away?
It was the eight hundred number that was given out everywhere.
You don't know where it went.
I don't know if it was in Raleigh or D. C. or where.
Okay.
But my thought was when I'm looking at these chairs and I'm looking at everything else, "Well they tell us to throw it away. They tell us that FEMA's going to take care of us." So—. If I had—see some people waited before they went in and started to throw things out. Not a lot, do you think? Most people pull things out immediately because what was happening was the mold was growing.
I mean by the time I walked in my house on Saturday after it flooded on
Friday— and say the flood waters you can tell were here—the mold was all
the way up the walls. It [Telephone rings] [Telephone rings]
Yeah we haven't talked at all about your turkeys yet. You were talking about FEMA and so on. We'll hopefully get to do that after she finishes.
[BE heard carrying on telephone conversation. Recorder is turned off
and then back on.]
Are all those citizens from the flood area or are some of them separate?
Well they're from their church and some are from our church.
Okay. So we've got everybody back in the room now. And we'll start—. We were talking about the FEMA promise. That's where we left off that you had taken out all of the goods out of your houses reluctantly. You let these other volunteer groups do that. Throwing things away that were plastic and sewing machines and everything, even things that weren't damaged because you had hoped that all this would be replaced. And you had been led to believe that all of this would be replaced by FEMA. And that's where I think we stopped the tape.
What did you start to say?
And you wanted to—.
Well we had never—. I mean it was through ignorance. People didn't know anything about FEMA in this area because we never had to deal with it. So it was not—. No one had ever been informed. I guess it was just some outsider maybe that said, you know, they will help you build back your house or something.
You remember Aunt Sue who was talking about somebody over in ( )—.
Yeah, but she didn't know.
It's just rumor at this point that y'all are—that somebody's coming by saying FEMA'll take care of you. There wasn't any government official who was giving you a paper or—.
They hadn't really promised that.
No. They hadn't promised anything. It's just they're saying, "FEMA will take care of things." And there's some literature ( ) and I'm sure I've got it at the house where it says—.
And you got that at these shelters, the literature?
Yeah. You know in different places they were passing out. But, you know, it would say that FEMA will come in and take care of things.
What they do is mostly take of the immediate needs and that's [microphone is moved]
But see what really got me about FEMA though was that for weeks and weeks you're going down to the recovery center. You're calling the help line. And you're hearing that they will help you out. But you don't know how they will help you out.
And then when they finally do your applications and they send you back a
copy of the application they've taken over the phone. And it shows on
there that, okay, you're eligible for disaster housing assistance.
You're eligible for Small Business Administration loan. You're eligible
for this. You're eligible for that. Several different eligibilities, but
what happens is—. And see none of us realized this. The only thing that
And that's the ten thousand?
No. The small business is whatever they determine you can pay back according to your value.
Okay. And that's—farms aren't eligible for that. Am I right about that?
No. Farms are not eligible for it. They have to go through the Farm Service Agency ( ) County.
And then they won't let you have money at the low interest rate if you can borrow it from the bank.
You have to prove that you can't get the loan otherwise for them to give you a loan. Okay.
That's right.
You were telling me earlier before we talked on tape about the FEMA deal that you can take ten thousand or you can take rental assistance but you can't take both. Can you say more about that?
Well, it started out—. That was not the way from the beginning. Early on it was just you applied for FEMA and FEMA's going to come in and help you out. And then you find out that the help that they can do is small business loan.
And the loan ( )—.
And they will give you up to $10,000 if your house can be repaired for under $10,000. They will give you that $10,000. You know now that I think about—.
But not if you're having the housing. Not if you get the housing.
Not if—. Well now early on I think that's the money that Bradley and Billy and all of them were getting was that ten thousand towards their houses. See it's been—it hasn't been real level because some people have gotten big amounts and gotten small business loans. Other people have gotten big amounts and not gotten small business loan. Other people get little amounts or no amounts and get a small business loan or maybe not a small business loan. I mean, everybody's treated different.
The SBA loans can be to individual homeowners who don't even have a business?
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.
It doesn't have anything to do with businesses.
But you have to sign over everything you own.
But many people didn't even qualify for the small business loans. And, yes, you do, if you get money from them you hand over your deed, which is not very pleasant. You know, to think you're handing it over to Uncle Sam because, you know, if you go missing payments then, you know, your U. S. government has your turkey farm or your property over here. But a lot of it I feel like little by little you keep calling and say— you felt there was a mystery behind calling FEMA.
Is this still this 800 number—
Yeah.
That you call. And at this point you still don't know where you're calling.
And you get different answers from every different person that you talk
to just about. You know, to people at the other end at the help line.
And one will tell you one week that you're referred to this program. The
next week they'll say, "No ma'am,
Macintyre and Charlie Albertson brought some of the FEMA people and SBA
and over to the firehouse. And there were a few community people out
there. And they told them what FEMA was all about. And I said, "But we
know all that. We want to know where the money is." [Laughs]
And this was when?
And they never told you anything. Huh?
This was when—when the—over here—.
Yeah. Mike Macintyre and Charlie Albertson are representatives in—. What's Macintyre, state senate?
State senate, okay. And this was when? This is recent?
No. This is, gee, it's been at least six or eight weeks ago, eight weeks ago probably.
But it was just an informational meeting and you wanted to know when are we going to get this money.
Right. Because we keep hearing—we kept hearing those same stories. So that's not what we really wanted to hear. But then another time they had a—called a community meeting over here and brought in the FEMA and SBA people. And I guess that's when we all finally realized that there was nothing to FEMA except housing assistance.
Trailers like the one we're sitting in. What else besides that?
They would offer a mobile home for up to eighteen months. They would offer the FEMA trailer for up to eighteen months or they would pay rental assistance. But after some people started receiving big checks all of a sudden we started—the rest of us started receiving letters. And it stated that, you know, they—there had been a change because of this situation was so unique and so many people did not have housing. That what they did they were offering—. And this was what mother was talking about. They offered you rental assistance. And they would pay for your rent to up to eighteen months. They would give you a mobile home. Not a FEMA trailer but a mobile home for up to eighteen months. Or they would give you ten thousand dollars. You pay for your own rent out of that. And then if you have some left over you can apply it towards a grant or a loan. You cannot spend it just any way you want to. It has to be applied towards your loan or your grant. So personally I would go for the ten thousand because there would be a few dollars left over after paying the rent. In mother's case she doesn't have to pay rent. She's got the trailer here. So she can apply this to her house. And which is what a lot of people can do if they don't have to pay rent is apply it. See, like with me, I can't apply it to my house. So I'm forced to do SBA loan. ( ) You know, for the fact that you can see that you cannot just go in and with all these homes just start replacing them and building back unless—. Now it sounds like mother might be getting the Mennonites, did you say?
I don't know. They go around and look at different places ( ).
Oh really? To see whose needs are greater?
I guess. They just did four houses in Duplin County.
Well I would think the elderly have the greatest needs, wouldn't you?
Well I think so. But then I don't know how they do it.
So it's basically saying that there is no money except what little—. Even ten thousand dollars will not build these homes back up.
Of course.
People like my mother who is elderly and does not have the resources. And I guess they all feel that it's nobody's responsibility but ours. The way I look at it it's our tough luck. We just have to deal with it the best way we can. If you build back, okay. And if you don't. What I always called "tough titties."
Well the governor has talked about three hundred and eighty million dollars and so forth. What do you think when you hear these figures again? Is it just more promises? Or do you feel there is something maybe in the future that's coming? What do you think?
I don't know. They've turned it over to the social services what they send to our county. And then they distribute it.
Right.
To all the flood victims. So we've gotten what six hundred, seven hundred?
Right at seven hundred.
Seven hundred dollars.
Per household.
Seems like probably more like seven—between seven fifty and eight.
From the governor.
From the governor's relief fund.
Okay.
The first time was three hundred and thirty-nine. The next time was one hundred and fifty-eight. And the next time was three hundred and something like that. That's what everybody got. The same amounts. So—and what it is—.
Everybody who'd lost their home?
That first amount was one point six. No. It was six million. It was six million divided between sixty–six counties.
Okay.
Okay. And by the time it came down to Duplin County, Duplin County got two hundred and thirty thousand of that money. And by the time every resident who had signed up for—that had been flooded got three hundred and some dollars. Now the thing about this other money, it really is not—. I think it said in the paper this week that it was two hundred and some odd million of that money you're speaking of would go towards housing. Now I don't know in what way it goes to housing. But, you know, when you divide the money up between all of North Carolina that were flooded, it really—. It's probably not going to be a whole lot ( ).
When I hear sixty-six counties and I look at the map of the flood I think, isn't that too many counties to give the money to and—?
Well it seems like it.
There's only a hundred counties in the state. That's two-thirds exactly of the state, which reaches to Charlotte. So if each county gets an equal amount—.
Isn't that the number that you heard?
Maybe that's ( ).
Well it's sixty-six counties that were affected by the hurricane.
Okay.
Okay. Now maybe this is just going to be flood. There are forty-some counties, I think, that were affected by the flood.
Okay.
And then, of course, some of those counties more so.
( )
Martin County is northeast corner.
Towards Washington.
Well, it's north of Williamston, Oak City or—. It's not too far from Tarboro.
Oh really. ( )
It's further east and a little bit north to Tarboro.
( )
In the chicken houses?
Well speaking of farms—I know we've got to come to a close now. But is there any aid—and have you received any aid whatsoever for the farm? And can you tell me what happened just real briefly to the turkeys? We haven't talked about that. What happened to them and then what—?
They were down closer to the river than we were. So the water came real high in the turkey houses.
And how many turkeys are we talking about?
I had about twelve thousand but that was—. It was a lot to me but then a lot of growers, you know, around here have about sixty thousand ( ).
And if you have twelve thousand turkeys and they grow out well and they weigh what they're supposed to weigh, is there a pretty good sized check that you expect to get from that?
Well, it's—. I don't have much left over when I have to pay somebody to help me.
Right. And all the electric bills—.
It's—you have enough to pay your bills.
Well like in her case, she pays herself rent or lease rent every month as her part of the budget ( ). So that's what she lives on besides the social security. And in this case, that whole check was wiped out.
Right. So I'm trying to get a sense of how much—.
So there's nothing to give her—there's no money there for her to pay herself.
No rent money for how many months now?
It will be about nine because it's been since September.
Nine weeks.
It will be probably six—probably be ten weeks—.
Right.
It will be at least six months before I could get any—could get some money because—.
Probably be more than that because by the time you get them in it'll be—.
We've got at least a month before I get any.
Then it's about four months before they're ready to go out.
There's a man who works for you in the meantime who's—where's he getting his money?
Oh he has a full-time.
He has another job.
Yeah.
He just ( ).
So what happened? You got a call from your sister saying that there's—
Well we called back and forth.
Water down there.
Um-hmm.
Then what happened?
My sister-in-law—. Are you talking about that Saturday night?
That sister-in-law.
I mean that Thursday night.
That Thursday night.
She called in the early morning, Friday morning. She just called and
said there was water—the water was up in the backyard. I take mother's
truck and start right down here and realize the water is up to the
lights. Back out and we were gone [microphone jostled]
I was trying to get him to go feed my turkeys.
I know.
Had a generator down there. I was trying to get my son-in-law to do it. But I didn't feed my turkeys. I didn't realize the wind was ( ).
Yeah. That was over and over and over. She even called the service men and wanted to know if they could go and get her turkeys out. He said, "Nope."
I get attached to them. They're like babies.
And they hadn't been fed and they didn't have water and she was just so concerned. And then my sister, I talked to her, and she says, it's deathly quiet. So I didn't even tell her.
And this was on Friday?
Saturday. They came out Saturday, didn't they?
Well it was Thursday night that I was trying to get Tim to go feed them.
And we left. So was it Friday afternoon that the—. I guess it was Friday or Saturday. They were gone.
Late when you got back and you went to the turkey houses, what did you see?
I didn't even go look.
I didn't either. You didn't want to see those rotten turkeys in the midst of all that turkey litter. No. I mean—.
Who did see them? Somebody.
The people who hauled them out. Yeah. We'd drive by down there. But you—. The doors had been left closed and I guess they were still closed. Yeah. They were still closed because one of the things that somebody else on up the road had open the doors and let them float. And that was a no-no. As a matter of fact had even suggested at one point that we do that because she, I guess she thought maybe the turkeys could be saved or whatever. I don't know. But they were stilled closed. So we didn't have to actually see them even if we rode down there. But at one time I didn't notice—. I did at one point later on go down and look at—. They kind of like mingled in with the litter. It was just—. Because what happened, all that water and all that wet swelled that litter up. And it was just real thick in there. And the turkeys were not just like lying on top of it. It was all mangled and stuff ( ) together. So I guess by the time they had drowned the water was up. And when it started coming down both the litter and the turkeys came down together.
And then there was some help, right? You got Poultry Growers' Association, PGA. Is that how it is?
Larry Holder had contacted mother. I don't know how that ever happened, do you?
No, I don't, but he did. He kept calling several times.
He was a past president of Poultry Growers' Association. So he had
contacted mother. And he came—he and someone else came down and had a
meeting at the firehouse. And I think that was the day that Mike
Mcintyre came. It was. And he for—ever how that happened—he came over
here to see mother. And she knew he was
About two weeks.
Took them to get it out.
Well and before that they had these trucks to come in and take off the dead ones.
Yeah, which were really the top layer.
Now these were—. Were these intended for Thanksgiving turkeys? You think that's the schedule they were on?
It probably would have been, wouldn't it?
It probably would have been.
They were ten weeks old?
Eleven weeks old and they probably would have gotten about twenty weeks.
So see that was two more months there.
And just about—.
Thanksgiving or Christmas one. Instead it was our Christmas presents, right?
So is there any—? That was one of the last questions, I guess, we'll—I'll ask. And then we can maybe talk another time if we need to. Is there any help for farmers? We said the SBA loans will not go for helping farmers and the FHA. Is there any company help? Is there any other way to have any assistance other than getting the houses cleaned out you're just on your own now or—?
Well, let's see. You had help from the state to remove the litter.
Well now they will pay seventy-five percent of your clay, to get the clay in.
The clay base?
Um-hmm.
That doesn't include the shavings, the litter?
Oh they bring the shavings.
And who pays seventy-five percent?
The state.
Pays seventy-five percent for the clay.
I really at some point am hoping that people can say any recommendations that they have for anybody else who's ever in this predicament. Do you have anything you'd like that to say right before we close? I was going to see if it's—maybe we have a few minutes on tape left. Any things that after thinking about these things so vividly—.
To do in the next flood? Is that what you're asking?
Right. What would you tell the state to do? What would you tell people who might be flood victims in another part of the state or something? What would you tell them?
I think I read in the paper about all these things, places they're going to have meetings to prepare—be better prepared the next time, you know, for the fire department and the officials and all. And so—. And I know that unless it's a lot of years ahead—. I know if it started raining again like it did with Hurricane Floyd you know I would begin to, myself, I would begin to get things put up. And at least your papers and things that you needed to keep, you know. And all your pictures and things. I would do a little something because this time there was no warning. And you didn't really believe it in your—that it would happen, you know. So there was no preparation. But a lot of people probably wouldn't want to live here anymore. There's some, you know, the government's going to buy them out so they can go in another place if they want to.
But you've decided you're going to stay?
Yes. I'm going to stay.
This is where you've always been.
It's like Max.
Most people are going to stay.
Max said she's been there fifty-five years. She's not going to leave now.
One thing I would do especially if it happened at night. I would not move my feet out of that house until daytime. They can take you out by boat then, I mean, unless it's rising so fast. But this was like early morning just before daybreak. I would work with everything I had to get everything off the floor.
The next thing I would not allow anybody to come in my house and remove anything. If it took me a year to empty it out I would ( ). I think one of the things we didn't realize it that how things dry out that—.
I mean even books. When they're covered with that slime you think there is nothing in the world you can ever do to save your books. And I lost a lot of books. But some that I did try to hold out, I've realized just letting them lay around in that house in the open air—. They don't smell real good. And I wouldn't even want to have them in a room with anything else. But, you know, they're still okay. And, you know, once they've dried out you can flip the pages and get the mud and glue for the most part. And a lot of things like that. Once it dried out, it was not that bad. It was dirty. And you want everything clean. You don't want to just bring it back in not clean. But for the most part it can be cleaned.
END OF INTERVIEW