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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview K-0283, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
The Hudsons, both dedicated Christians, saw the presence of God during and after Hurricane Floyd. They explain that God helped them escape the floodwaters and oversaw an astonishing flood of generosity in the storm's aftermath, but also that God used the flood to teach painful lessons about materialism. Elberta believes firmly that God sent the flood expressly for these purposes; Thomas thinks human error caused the flooding. The Hudsons also detail their escape from rising floodwaters and some of the recovery efforts they witnessed and took part in. It might be useful to read this interview with Bert Pickett's, as the two interviews present different religious reactions to the hurricane.
The Hudsons explain that although God used the Floyd flood to warn against materialism, He helped many escape the floodwaters and oversaw astonishing generosity afterward.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
It's December 18, 1999, and we're in the White Stocking community real close to I-40 with Thomas and Elberta Hudson in their trailer, close to the recycling center on White Stocking Road. But this isn't where they live regularly—they are survivors of the flood, and so we want to talk to them some about that. First of all, tell us about how you decided to move to White Stocking community, where you grew up and so forth, and then when you decided to come here.
Well, I really live—my home is Salisbury, Maryland, and I was down on vacation. This was four years ago. And I was down in Wilmington working, and I seen the community and it was nice. And I said, Well, I'm going to make this my home, so I left and went back and I packed up and I moved to Wilmington, North Carolina. I started working, and then went shopping for a house to rent. And I found my house in White Stocking so I moved to White Stocking. Then in January I went and got my wife and my family. We moved down here. It is a nice community to raise the kids up and not far from the highway, and don't have a whole lot of traffic so kids wouldn't be running back and forth like on the highway. And it's got a nice church; they have a nice organization, singing, programs, everything. It's a lot better here, that's all.
All right. And, Elberta, you were staying up in Salisbury?
Maryland, yes.
Salisbury. Rob is also here. That's where you're from, right Rob?
I'm from Maryland. I'm from Silver Spring.
Really? Oh, yeah, we know Silver Spring, Maryland.
Not too far.
Not far at all.
Elberta, are you from Salisbury, too?
Actually, I was born in North Carolina. I was born in New Bern, North Carolina, and we moved to Brooklyn, New York. And I believe it was in '75 we moved to Salisbury, Maryland. So for the majority of my life I've been in Salisbury. Me and my husband we were separated. Well, I decided to go in with the Lord and I became a preacher. We were living together but that wasn't the right thing to do, because—it wasn't right. So he moved down here, maybe about three or four years before I came here, and that whole time I was praying for him. I just was confident that he was going to be my husband, you know. July of last year we got married, and January I moved here. And I was excited. I came here before I moved here and I didn't think I was going to like it, but when I came here it was so serene, you know, peaceful. The woods was good, you know. It was good to be in the woods. People was thinking because I come from the city, sort of, that I wasn't going to like it here, but I loved it here when I came and I couldn't wait to come back.
Are you in the AME Zion denomination as well?
Actually, the church down there at White Stocking, the Sand Hill is the
first I had experience with AME. Now, I first come I guess to know the
Lord in Kingdom Hall, and then I was in Church of God in Christ, and
then I was in the Full Gospel Baptist Church when I moved here in North
Carolina. I was looking for a Baptist church, and I decided to pray and
ask the Lord where would he have me to go, and so he led me to the AME
Church. I didn't know anything about it. It's just been there. But I
knew it was the
Strong winds. You could feel the roof and stuff rattling and all. I woke up and we just seen branches and trees, you know, knocked down. I was just like, thank you Lord, because we didn't get a lot of damage. It was just limbs. And my neighbor, she was gone; she was gone for about two weeks. And so I went over to next door and I was cleaning all the leaves and limbs and stuff out of her yard and stacking it in the back. And then that next morning—well, we heard one of the neighbors and they were loud. And I guess he said he was working on his generator because they had water. We didn't have water. We were dry in our area, but the neighbors around us had water because we were in what's considered a higher ground.
And you lived right across from Elder Pickett?
No, no, no. We stayed on the curve. Remember, it's the yellow house right on the curve, beside a brick house.
Down the street on that curve, in front of the swamp.
In front of the swamp.
We stayed right in front of the creek. And so while we was helping people earlier in the neighborhood get out and stuff, we was thinking we were okay. My husband had already parked his truck to the graveyard. And the van, we had a van and a Lincoln, and so we had it in the yard. I don't know, maybe about 5:30 my husband went out and he said, “The water is in the yard.” And I said, “What do you mean, the water is in the yard?” And he said, “The water is in the yard. I'm going to move the vehicles.” So he moved the vehicles and nobody else was around then. And I didn't want to leave. I had gotten stubborn. You know, there was a time when I wanted to leave, but at that point I didn't want to leave. My mother, she was visiting from Maryland, and she was upset because I didn't want to leave and everybody else was leaving. But anyway, finally when my husband came back in he said, “We got to go because the water is coming in fast.” By that time I went out and the water was up, I guess a little down below our knees. And all of us was still in the house. I had my mother and my four kids and me and him. I didn't know what I was going to do, because I know basically everybody that had their own boats were going, and we didn't have one.
Before you go on, you said our kids. How old were they? That's an important point.
One, I had a one-year old. He just had turned one. And I have a seven-year old, eleven-year old, and a fifteen-year old.
And they were all in the house with you?
They were all in the house. And I didn't know where we were going to go,
because we didn't have boats; we helped the neighbors with their boats,
but we didn't have one. But by the time we got outside I heard voices,
and a rescue team was there with flashlights. And I know it wasn't
nothing but the Lord again, you know, because they were just there. I
don't know where they came from, but they was just there. And they were
coming around the bend with flashlights. I guess they was going to see
was anybody else still back there. So it was my family and another
family that came out. there was more people back there, but they refused
to leave their homes. But my family and another family—and when we left
out of there my husband's pickup truck, the water was all the way up in
his cab. But he drove it through there. Even the man in the Army
truck—he said they had a hard time getting the Army truck, so he didn't
advise my husband to drive this pickup truck through there. But he said
it was the Lord's truck. [EH laughs.]
Now, tell the story about how you got that truck. You told me today, and why you wrote The Lord's Prayer on the back.
Well, I had a Ford truck. I had another Ford truck. It was an '84 Ford
F150 pickup. I do concrete and block work, and I was telling my wife I
wanted to go get another truck. So we had been doing work at the church,
cleaning up [and] hauling off rubbish and stuff from the church. So I
told the wife, it's time for me to get another truck. I said the Lord
says its the right time we get another truck. So I went on and I was
riding out on Market Street. And I spotted this white truck, F150
four-by-four. So I go over on there and I tell the man by the truck, and
the guy said what he wanted for the
Um-hmm.
So that night, when you knew the water was going to go in it, did you just know that you could drive it out?
I had had the truck up on the hill like this. Picture my house. This is how far the water was—we was on dry land all that day, and this is how the water was on the streets, down the streets. This is the water. And this here, ( ) on the boat, helping people, back and forth. We was still on dry land. And this is how the water, how we was boating. There was water all around it.
You're paddling in a flat boat.
In a flat boat, with paddles—
Neighbors.
—helping people to get out down in the lower area. And so I came home, and I told my wife, I said, “We'd better get ready to go,” I said, “because I heard some water coming through the woods.” So, by the time I went in the house and got the keys and started the van, and put the van next door in a little higher ground, it had came up to my tire. I said, “There ain't no way in the world we're going to be able to drive these vehicles like this,” because we couldn't get by, because the water the water has already done run in. So we took them next door and parked them. And by the time the rescue squad had got us out, the water was up to my window, but there, you couldn't roll your window down. If you'd rolled your window down, the water would roll right inside the vehicle. That's how high the water was. And the guy told us, he said I couldn't drive that truck out of there. And I said, “I'm going to drive this truck out of here.”
Did you say, “This is the Lord's truck?”
I said, “This is the Lord's truck,” and I got inside the truck, and it never missed, it never misfired, never stalled out and never sputtered, nothing.
The water must have been coming over the hood at that point.
Um-hmm. Yeah, it was.
It just went on out.
It was way over the hood. It was up to the windshield line.
You all been down to White Stocking. From White Stocking all the way up here to 53, she came through that water. She ain't never missed ( ). Cars stall out, won't start, and this and that. Mine, I had no problem. Water was next door, to the next door neighbor. That's why my wife, she was boating, we were boating—
Yeah, I was excited about it.
—carrying people out.
You kind of look like you are serene, as you were saying before.
Yeah, because, you know, I never—I thought—we never thought the water—that morning, Friday morning, it was dry land. Friday evening it was evacuating time. No rain, no storm—calm, sunshine and bright. I would get my water—the water was rising a foot an hour, is how fast that water was rising. From Friday morning until Saturday it rose twenty-two feet. It rose twelve—thirteen feet over flood level in this area.
And you know, if you could see our house now.
The total was twenty-two feet high.
We had five children at the time, and, me and my husband and five kids,
and the house that we were in was a two bedroom house; we were renters,
we wasn't buyers, buyers and home owners. I would pray, because when I
left Maryland I had a big house, and when I got here I was kind of
disappointed. But my husband was, “We're going to buy a home. We're
going to buy a home.” And I was like, well, Lord, I can't believe you
had me come down here in this little house like this, you know. But the
Lord just told me to trust him. So when I was, I woke up-they took us
when we left here from the flood to the shelter. It was at Burgaw Middle
School. And I woke up that morning, and I just was overwhelmed, and the
tears just came. I said, “Well, Lord, I asked you for more space.” And I
look and I see all of us had our own cots, you know, “but I didn't
expect you to give more space—.” But it gave me joy. It was a humor
moment. So, you know, it wasn't nothing but Him that was giving me peace
in it. But it was just so humorous when you—he didn't say you've got to
be persistent or you've got to be precise about what you [EH is laughing.]
How was it at the shelter? Describe it. How many people were in there and the types of people who were there?
Oh, Lord, it was so many people. It was so many people. It was the Mexican people, black people, white people. And it was a lot of people, you know, young, old, middle age.
They had the whole Middle School jammed up with people who started coming.
And it was packed. It was cots side-to-side.
They didn't have no room to house them all, so they opened up another, bigger school down at Penderlea. I think it was Penderlea.
And before we got to that school—now, I had went around to register for vouchers, I believe, to get clothes for the family, and when I came back my little girl was running and she was all excited. And she said, “Mom, we got somewhere to live. We've got somewhere to live.” And I was like, she don't know what she's talking about, but then when I got to—this lady that she knew, it turned out she was a bus driver named Miss Evans. She told me that she and her husband was the care takers of a Christian Camp, and I don't know how many cabins they had at this camp, but that became our residence from that point; we didn't have to go to that other school for shelter, we went to the Christian Camp. They had cottages there, and in the cottages they had like twelve bunk beds, two bath stalls and two showers. So that was just like a taste of heaven compared to where we were, you know.
Where you were was just—.
Just beds. Beds.
Wall to wall beds.
That's it. [Laughter.]
And you had no privacy whatsoever?
No. None at all.
About how many people were in the gym, or was that where you were?
Well, we were at a school. We were at the school, and some of us were in the hallways.
Classrooms and hallways.
Hallways and classrooms. Everywhere.
About how many people could you see in the room where you were?
It was about three—wait a minute—three families in there. Our family has seven in our family.
And the desks were all in the room and everything.
They had it all pushed in the corners.
In the corner.
And they laid the cots out.
And we had, there was seven in our family, and the Jordan's had maybe about five or six or seven.
And did you know the Jordan's before this?
Well, we knew them, but we didn't know them. We'd seen them, you know,
but we didn't go to church with them. We went to church with maybe one
of them, or [Laughter]
How could you change clothes and that sort of thing, and wash?
Got in the bathroom. We had to go in the bathroom. The boys and girls bathroom.
Okay.
But when we go to the—
Then you went to the camp.
The Christian shelter, yeah, the camp. We had more privacy. We had privacy for a while, but like I said, we had twelve bunks in there and it was other families that didn't really have anywhere to go, so I told Miss Evans that we didn't mind if someone moved in there with us, being as though it was twelve bunks and we only took up seven, you know. So one of the ladies and her mother moved in there with us for maybe about two weeks, three weeks.
The mother—I believe her mother stayed a week.
She stayed a week.
The mother stayed a week.
And then the lady stayed for maybe about two or three weeks. But it was
an experience. It really was an experience, even being there at the
shelter. But I think that's where I really got the most comfort, at the
shelter, because it was a serene place, but at the same time that's
where I began to see the love of God in the people. Because people was
coming by trailer truck loads of things, like cleaning supplies,
clothes, food by the truck loads, it was just coming. People was coming,
asking us, “What do you need?” You [Laughter]
That's funny.
It's just amazing how things happen, isn't it?
And then we were running back and forth up to FEMA, filling out applications.
Where was FEMA?
FEMA was up in town across from the courthouse in Burgaw. And FEMA give us temporary houses. At first they had a site that they were going to put all the FEMA trailers in one spot. And then after everybody started talking, we'd rather have the trailers set on our home site. And then they had the inspections—the plumbing, electricity, and all.
And they hooked up the pipes to the septic tank.
Right, FEMA done all that, and they hooked up. But at first they were moving a little slowly getting their trailers down here. And then all of a sudden they started coming. And once they started coming, they started coming.
When was that, when they started?
And we never seen ours.
We had never seen ours. [EH and TH laughing]
That is real sloppy.
And they wanted to know how many was in the family, and we told them how many was in the family. And they said we had to have a trailer to suit six, eight, so they said we would have to have one with three bedrooms. So they gave us, we got a seventy-foot trailer—the rest of them got, I think—
The traveling trailer.
The traveling trailer. But we got—
They didn't like them so well.
So the one we are in now is a seventy-foot trailer that belongs to FEMA?
It's a seventy-five, fourteen that belongs to FEMA. It's a FEMA home.
And when we moved in here—
Was it new?
When we moved in here it was new. We had the dining room set, the living room, the sofa.
Everything was new.
And each bedroom had a full-size bed, a night stand, and a dresser.
Everybody is telling us that this is nothing but the Lord, and we said that blessings come from the Lord.
People kept telling us that because we were renters we wasn't going to
get a, you know, because we rented, we wasn't going to get it. But, like
I said, the Lord had, we already knew that we were. We didn't even go
and apply for it. The FEMA people came to us and put us on their list.
We would go down to the office and check, and they
We got it a week before Thanksgiving.
We didn't move in it until a week after Thanksgiving.
We moved in a week after that, but we got it a week before Thanksgiving.
No, they didn't have everything set up, honey, until the week after Thanksgiving. Right?
No, before Thanksgiving.
Okay. But anyway, it was around that time. [Everyone laughing]
Why is it set up all the way up here? What is it, a mile from your house?
Because we were renters. We were renters, and we don't have our property so they put it on, this is called commercial property.
Does it belong to the county?
It belongs to ( ).
It belongs to a private owner ( ) [both EH & TH speaking at once.]
At the end with the white fence, with that steel fence around it. That's the owner.
It's a trailer park.
What they told us when we was initially accepted for the mobile home was
that we needed to go out and find a site for it. They gave us two or
three references, and this was the most convenient for us because of the
kids. We didn't want the kids to have
Did they have to dig a septic tank?
Septic tank was all here.
Everything was here.
It was all here.
This was a trailer park.
There was a trailer here before.
There was a trailer on this lot. And there's another lot next to us.
Okay.
And there was a trailer over there that had been damaged, and they just moved it. And the lady decided not to come back.
Okay.
But this lot here was already having ( ). FEMA rent, leased this lot.
They told us when they gave us the key that it, that they were in charge. North Carolina would be picking it up from that point, and it was up to their discretion how long we would be here. They said they would come every month to assess and see how we're coming along. We have a possibility of from six months to eighteen months to live rent free, but you know, every month they would come and assess us and see.
So they check to—
But our goal is a five bedroom home.
A five bedroom home?
That we purchase. That we be able to purchase on our own.
Will you purchase one on White Stocking?
No. [EH laughing]
So that means that no one will ever be able to live there, because it is in the flood plain.
Exactly. But I think, personally, that White Stocking is a great community. I think that if they attempt to restore it to where it was it could be even greater than it was. I watched the creek before the water came because I was expecting if we got a flood the water to come from the creek first. But it came from the woods, which I wasn't even expecting, period. Water never came from the creek.
And the water come two days after the storm, so I think the water was set down on us from some of the dams.
From the dams, um-hmm. We never—the creek never overflowed to the point where the water not having anywhere to go.
It just started to rise. So I think they let some of the dam loose and these creeks, they are not cleaned out for the water to flow. So when the water hit, when it fills up quick, all it got to do is spill over. There's a lot of rubbish and a lot of trash in the way of the water to flow. So when it hits that trees and dams while its built up, it's got to ricochet off in another spot.
I said my desire is to have a five bedroom home, but greater than that is to please the Lord. I don't believe the Lord wants me to move from White Stocking right now, because it seems like I'm still here. And I know that He sent me here, so it is still something that He wants to get done before we leave. And I know that's the only way we're going to be leave, if His will is done. You know, then we could leave easily. I know that we most definitely will have that five bedroom, whether it be here set up in White Stocking or wherever. But His will has to be done first.
Are you working anywhere else besides being the assistant pastor?
I volunteer. I volunteer. Well, I used to work with my husband, but he's
not a good boss. [EH laughs] [Laughter]
When you work for a person, you've got to do what they tell you to do. And she don't want you to tell her what to do, but she can tell you what to do.
No, no.
That's why she says I'm not a good boss. [both EH and TH laughing]
No. What I tell him is that he's so used to being a boss, but he can't look at me as being an employee. We're partners.
Um-hmm. Yeah, that's hard.
So don't holler.
That's hard.
But I know there was a lesson in it for both of us, right? Because every
time I would try not to go to work with him, I would always seem to have
to go to work with
How many hours do you work a day?
Sunup to sundown.
Well, he had to. Since the flood, though, he's only worked, what? One job?
Why is that?
Since September. The work hasn't—well, we just got our phone yesterday.
You do concrete, right?
We just got a phone yesterday, so that was hard because we wasn't in a stationary place.
I lost a lot of tools—my trowel machine, my saws, my generators. You can't operate if you don't have the tools. I still haven't got none of them back yet. I've got a couple of jobs coming in starting off first of the year, and I'm going to have to rent the tools to do the work.
And he had one of the, because he does like two, two is it—help me with it honey. Mobile home parks, trailer parks.
You're the boss, but you can't do it without your tools.
Well he does, like two trailer parks. He does the driveway, approaches,
sidewalks and paths in the trailer park. And he, like he said, he wasn't
able to do it because of the tools and everything. But only yesterday
one of the men that he worked for, because he couldn't contact him, he
wrote him a letter through the mail and it said, “I have work for you.
Please contact me soon.” So that was just great, you know, that was
People you know? People you don't know?
People that he worked for.
People that I worked for.
Had done work for previously.
Some of the guys I'd done work for and knew that I was in the flood. And they just wrote me out a check and they just give it to me.
Yeah. Yeah. Some of them. That was, you know, quite a blessing for us.
Well, today, I don't know if we can put it into words, exactly all that happened. Both of you were there at the church. Can you describe—we were going to interview you earlier in the day, and here we are at AME Zion Church and there are a few people. And suddenly it seemed that everybody came. How did all that take place? You were part of it, I know.
You've got to remember though, the church—we had a church down here in Castle Hayne, that the pastor called me and asked me would I go down and pick up some boxes.
Do you know what the pastor's name is?
Yeah, my pastor.
Oh, your pastor.
My pastor.
Our pastor, Reverend David. And said the church down there had twelve boxes for twelve different families. Would I come down and pick them up and bring them up to the church, because we was all supposed to meet at the church at 12:30? And then they said they had Santa Claus coming and was going to give the children some gifts.
Um-hmm.
But that was different. That was just an all-of-a sudden surprise. Because while we were going to pick up the gifts in Castle Hayne, one of the neighbors had stopped in and said that Santa Claus was going to be there at one o'clock and let my mother know. And that was another neighborhood church, Chapel Hill.
A different church.
Not Chapel Hill, but—
Rocky Point?
What is it, honey? You know, Jordan Chapel. Jordan Chapel is the church. And you said—I don't know the pastor's name, but he's a nice pastor.
That's a different ( ).
He was there also. That gave—the one that told my pastor about the surprise.
His name is Furr.
Furr.
Reverend Furr.
Okay. And we were down there cleaning out the church the week after; the
first week of the month we were down there, me and my husband. We love
to clean up around the church. Not too many people don't help, but we
love to do it, you know. We
There are probably forty, fifty boxes over there.
I don't know. Yeah. I'm telling you, just been coming—clothes and shoes, and it seems like the more I give away, the more comes. It's just overwhelming. You know I been telling everyone that you read and you hear about jubilee, but I been experiencing the jubilee of the Lord ever since it happened.
Explain what you mean by jubilee.
It's like, you know, abundance of everything that you could want. Even
things that you desire. You know, it's like I said when we moved, the
house that was damaged—that wasn't enough space for a six member family.
And it was overwhelming to me when it was, everything was just taken. It
just seemed like over night. It was overwhelming. Discouraging and
everything else. And then one lady came to the shelter and she sang the
song, “One Day at a Time.” And I'm the type of person, I just think I've
got to be tough and hard, you know, and don't let things affect me like
it affects most people. And so I was, I guess I was putting on a hard
face. But inside I was just crying. I
What were you looking at when you saw those things?
Furniture. All our furniture. Things we had worked for.
That gave you the headache?
Yeah, everything.
Things you had worked for?
Worked hard for.
What all was in there?
Your living room, your couch, your refrigerator, your gas stove, freezer.
And computer.
Computer, the TV, your VCR.
Clothes?
Clothes.
It's amazing, because before we could even get in the house—we had an
addition to our house and then we had outdoor furniture and had a deep
freezer and all. And it was like everything was upside down. It was
just—it didn't seem like water. I don't know what it seemed, but it was
just a mess. And I just couldn't see myself going in there and cleaning
it out. I just couldn't. And my husband said, “Well, don't worry.
Bicycles and everything.
Bicycles and exercise equipment?
That was on the outside.
These here are two of the pictures of the inside, but they didn't come out because I didn't have no flash. Didn't have a flash with me.
You don't have any pictures of the stuff inside?
I don't know where ( ) the pictures are at.
You look on the dresser?
That's where I got them from, on the dresser.
There's some.
Well anyway, did you look in that top drawer? The furniture and everything. Even the pictures that we had, all our wedding pictures and stuff—I just thought I was going to put them in the top drawer and they would be all right. But it's amazing because my husband bought me this watch. I said, “I don't want a cheap watch. I want a watch that cost a lot of money.” And he really sacrificed and brought me this watch.
It's a gold watch.
Well yes. And it's a ( ). And I was so tickled because he paid a hundred
some dollars. We couldn't even really afford that. I said to myself, I
never would have time to think about getting my pocketbook. I left my
pocketbook there, you know. And my watch was on the dresser. And I was
just thinking about these things. I was thinking, he bought me the watch
for my birthday, or Mother's day, or one of those times. And
They're around here somewhere.
I said that top drawer, honey.
What top drawer? I'm looking there.
I don't know where it is, then.
That's okay.
Things, I mean like—it was just unbelievable. We were able to save a few
things—like we didn't have room for our clothes in the house so I had
bought those Tupperware bins. And when we went back and we cleaned up
the stuff, two of the bins, the water never got to them. They was just
floating in the water. Then I looked at my bin and it was trashed.
Everything that was my little boy and my little girl, their bins was
sealed, but mine was drenched to the gills. But then the people began to
bring me clothes, and one lady brought me the most beautiful suits, I
mean, with sequins and gold,
Tell me how you became a pastor in the AME Zion Church.
Well, so far—they told me when I joined the church I turned over my preaching license to my pastor. I sat under her for a year, and after a year they ordained me. But I have to go to school.
Where do you go?
Well, my pastor hasn't let me know what school I go to yet. But it will be a year in February, so I'm pretty sure she's going to let me know soon. I've been inquiring to different people and they said there's a few in Wilmington.
Both of you have tremendous faith and have shown it to us today. What is your—you've probably thought about this. What is your feeling about why the flood came?
My feeling about the flood is that they sent the water down here, all of it at one time, by the Lord. It's the Lord's water, but man controlled it and then released it. So it wasn't by the Lord for being what's called no disaster or flood. It was flood, man made flood in my belief. We went through the storms—the wind, the rain and blowing trees down and all that. But it was these dams that hold this water back. And, for some particular reason they didn't release the water at the time that they was supposed to. They hold it back, and it got too much on them. Instead of destroying them, they just released it on someone else. They didn't know how much damage, they didn't really know how much damage it was going to do until they done it. And now they're slow to realizing, but they really don't want to commit it, because they have never said it. But the Lord is in control of everything, so He will provide.
I personally believe that the Lord did send the flood, regardless of
them opening up the dams or not. The Lord did send the flood, and it
wasn't to take nobody away. It wasn't to take a life or anything, but it
was to wake us up to the things that we need to do. You know, just like
you hear the people talking about Y2K, we need to focus on the Lord and
seek him to find out what it is that we need to do for his will or for
his glory. I don't think the community of White Stocking was so bad, but
I know the grace
[END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE A.]
[START OF TAPE ONE, SIDE B.]
So, we can't change one another, but the Bible says we have to work our
own soul's salvation with fear and trembling. If we don't fear the
things that's going on around us we won't seek the one that wants us to
seek Him. When I get a chance to open up my mouth and speak, I let them
know that it's not no chance, not no coincidence, not no people that let
go the dams, but it's God that's speaking to us. It is just as plain as
my hand in front of me. That's what it is, you know, that's what it is.
I mean, people wouldn't fear Y2K if they know the Lord, because they'd
know that the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. So what is
there to be fearful of? If you know Him, Y2K or any
There's a lot of talk about hogs and development, and highways, and all that associated with the flood. And people talk about the smell of the water and so forth. Do you have any thoughts about that?
Well, we came down here at the beginning. We seen the goats and the
horses and all that, you know. All that the people had had in the
community was dead, and they hadn't had a chance to remove them. And
they stayed there for a while. I guess that was—and all the water was in
the houses and then the smell, it still is unbearable, you know. They're
doing whatever they can to clean it up, but it's going to be a process.
It's something for everything. I mean, I look down at the neighbor, and
he's tearing down his home, and I can't imagine what he's going through
having to tear down his home. But I was told that the odor was so bad in
there, there wasn't no way that they could live back in it. But then,
you never know. Maybe they believed in the Lord for a new home and now
they're going to get one. Maybe they can't see the goodness for focusing
on the bad. But it is good that's coming out of it. A lot of people I've
talked to that lost everything in their home—and they were homeowners,
and they gutted and everything—at least every person I talked to said
that they prayed and asked the Lord for something. Like this lady, for
instance, she said that she prayed and asked the Lord that she be debt
free before she died. She told me, I guess a few weeks ago, that she
only had five months, or five more payments on her car. Well, she said
that when her insurance paid off they paid the full value of her car, so
she was able to get a new car and have thirty-six
You said back in the first part of the shelter stay, there were whites, and there were Mexicans, and there were African-Americans all together. And you—what we saw today was african-americans and whites working together at Christmas. We were also pleasantly surprised by finding that in the midst of what we thought was african-american community, there are also white people living, even down kind of behind other people.
Right.
So, you've come from Maryland, and you've seen probably strain between different racial groups, and so on, in schools. Can you comment on how it is to live in the South, in a community like White Stocking, and how maybe this flood has made a difference, possibly? Or has it? Is it always cooperative like that?
It's always—since I've been down here it's always been cooperative like that. They treat you like you was a person.
Is that different from what you used to experience before you came here? The same?
Well, a lot of times it's different, because a lot of jobs and a lot of
positions, they didn't want to give you credit for it up home as they
would down here. And see, down here, if you can qualify for the job and
you can do the job, you've got the job. Up home, it's a whole lot
of—you've got to go through a whole lot of rigmarole. Like when you go
out to get a job, you've got the potential to do the concrete job, but
they'll slight you a little bit and not give it to you. And then, later
on down the road it may come back to you that the same man that they
passed you up for the job may come get you to do the job. That's the
only difference I've found. I don't care what color you is, or race you
is,
What about at the shelter? What about things like happened today?
We were the same. People were treated the same. They'd go get their clothes and their food and everything just like we done. They talked to us, and they were the same. Everybody was ( ), and dealing with what they had to deal with, to my notion.
I think it brought us closer together, though, because, like I said,
when we were in the shelter we knew our neighbors but we didn't
associate with our neighbors. When I first came down here we went around
in the community, and I had a prayer book and I got all the neighbors to
sign. We had blacks and whites and Mexicans in the neighborhood, but
they stayed, like you said, off in the woods. Some stayed in Copperhead
Lane; it's a mixed community in Copperhead Lane. We went all around and
invited the people to the church and got their names in our prayer book
and everything. But we didn't usually come together. We had one couple,
I believe, and that was James and Becky, and I think they were hispanics
that came to our church. They came maybe two or three times. James maybe
came two or three times, but Becky came once. When we was at the camp it
was all mostly blacks except for one white family, and that was a
difference. But I know that was the will of God, because it was one
black church that came out to the camp and fed us and all of the rest of
was white churches. And even the restoring of the houses and tearing out
of the houses, I think it was maybe one black, or maybe two black
churches and the rest of them was white churches. I seen—well, it was
overwhelming to me to see, like I said, the love of God through the
white churches. You
Did you hear what Reverend Furr said to your pastor today about the building materials?
Yeah, I heard him. And this had not been the first time. Like I said, it wasn't the first time that he came in the community and rendered his service and brought things out for the kids and for the church. But our pastor hasn't been there before. It is usually me and my husband. But he came out, and it's just been overwhelming.
Today he said list how much you need in terms of sheet rock and plywood and insulation and electrical materials, and we'll get them for you.
That's right.
He told the pastor that. I was pretty amazed. That's a lot of money.
And there was other churches. Pastor Purnell from Burgaw Baptist, and
that's a white church also. They came out and they tore everything out
of the church, and the only reason they haven't restored the church is
because it's got to be a fifteen percent water dryness. It's still too
wet for them to go in there and work, in other words. So that's the only
reason that Pastor Purnell's church hasn't came back and did it. But
it's been so many churches that's offered to restore the church and
offer to restore the homes of the people. It really has. You've got to
know that it's the Lord. And we've been—when I came here, Pastor
Purnell, the white pastor that I'm telling you about—I had people
telling me that I probably wasn't welcome in the white church. But I
told my husband, I said, “I'm going to go to Burgaw Baptist.” He just
looked at me. He wasn't saying anything. At that point it probably
wasn't for me to go, you know, because the
You did? How did that go?
That was really nice.
In the First Baptist Church at Burgaw?
In the Burgaw Baptist Church.
Who preached that?
It was an evangelist from somewhere. I think Los Angeles or somewhere.
Oh, okay.
I put him in the prayer book.
But everybody participated together?
Um-hmm. They came together. They got a chance to testify and tell how they was, how the church came in and helped and everything. Well, like I said, when we was at the camp, we started to complain about the Red Cross food, because it wasn't so good after a while, you know. It was just like they throwed it together.
Was it cold?
It wasn't cold, it didn't have a substance. Sometimes you didn't know
what you was eating. It was just like mystery meat or whatever. [Laughter].
Like you say, you don't know.
You don't know. But when you get to the opportunity, that was the
opportunity that we seen. My husband, he was telling them he liked neck
bones. And one of the ladies, I think even at Burgaw Baptist, she said,
We can cook neck bones, too! [EH and CT laughing.]
Do you feel that this good will, this mixing, this intermingling will carry over now once the flood and all the clean up happens and everybody gets back in their houses? Do you sense that that spirit of good will will continue now?
I believe that it will, only for the ones that's willing for it to.
Because you're not going to—it's always going to be a few. It's not
going to be everybody. It's never going to be everybody. I mean, it's
God's will that it be everybody, but it's not. And so you just can't
give up because you don't see everybody doing it, but you just got to
enjoy and do what you know is right. I've never been a prejudiced
person, but even in the midst of being at the camp I learned even
something different about myself as not thinking I'm
Can you give an example of what you learned?
Say, for instance with the food. I mean, I just took it for granted that
maybe the white people don't fix food like we fix food, you know. That's
not necessarily true, but they just bring a different spice. And then
you limit yourself when you're not just tasting their food, like you are
your food. You're missing that God intended for us to get a variety of
tastes, and we're just limiting ourself to our taste. And then we might
look at it and say, maybe, that's not good. But how would you know it
unless you taste it? It's just like with the Lord. He said, “Oh, taste
and see that the Lord is good.” But if you just get a dab, that's not a
good taste. You've got to really get a good taste to know it, to get a
good taste. [CT and EH laugh.]
Well, what happened to the african-american churches? If they're not coming out in as big a numbers, why?
Well, the reason, to me I think is—I mean, I can't really explain it
because I'm a little overwhelmed myself, and going along seeing the
things that it is. I just think it's God ordained it as such. You know
what I'm saying? Because I have seen black churches come out and do
things, and they just do it and they leave. You know, they come and they
don't linger around or whatever. And maybe that's their way of doing
things. I don't know. But like, say for instance, I'm in a ministerial
allowance
That's a good theory. The white community we interviewed in Duplin was saying that there are a lot black churches that were helping them.
I think it was ordained as such by the Lord. That's just his way of breaking the barrier. I mean, like I said, some people are not humble enough to go and ask for help. As we see it, the white churches are more able to help us than the black churches, because it seems as though the white churches are more prosperous.
Um-hmm, that's an important point.
But we didn't even have to ask. They just came. And that's just the way it's done. And I'm just so amazed that even in North Carolina it's been like that. I mean, I know there's prosperous churches, black churches all over the world. We haven't seen any offer to help us, but I think this is just the Lord's way of bringing us together.
In terms of FEMA and the Federal help, have you noticed any difference in treatment? I think you've touched on that already, but any difference in treatment based on who people are? How much money they have, or anything like that?
No. If they have a hundred thousand dollars, they're going to do their part and that's it.
And we have been persistent.
There's no extra for nobody. They treat everybody the same.
I think, you know, some people are not persistent. They might inquire about something and then they expect somebody else to do the work. But if it's your business, you've got to take care of your business. And me and my husband, we've been pretty persistent in just going down there and letting ourselves be known. And they see us, and they say, “Well, hi Mr. and Mrs. Hudson,” and they usually know what we're coming in there for.
The FEMA people know you by name?
Right, right. Yes. And they've been helping us. They've been working with us. We go in there, they go right into the computer and “Well, what do you want to know today?” Yeah.
You've got to follow up on it. A lot of people is not getting their help because they're not following up on it. They want things done right then. They don't want to go through the process of waiting and getting it done. They just want it done. Like say you say, you want a dollar right then and there. It don't work that way. You've got to go through a process and take your time. But they can't see it that way.
I'll tell you, we have gotten from FEMA—when the FEMA man first came,
our house wasn't even accessible. The water was way up. So,
automatically we was eligible for four hundred dollars, I guess they
call it emergency assistance. So we got that. We didn't get that until,
what? Maybe a month after the flood. Then after a while
So you have to be persistent yet patient.
Right, you do.
Now, you went to Raleigh. This is probably, we have to be somewhere at seven, and so we won't take a lot more of your time, but I was thinking we would really like to have this on tape about how you organized and how you got together a group to go to Raleigh this week. It was on Wednesday, right?
Um-hmm.
Would that be the fifteenth?
It was like over night that happened, you know.
That's exactly three months after the flood.
Um-hmm.
Over night you got a call, or how did that happen?
No. Well, we have a lady named Kathy. Kathy Lee. And she's a representative for White Stocking.
A state representative?
No, she's a neighbor. She's a community representative. And she announced Sunday that they would be having the meeting. She had papers that you put down how the flood affected you life—to write a letter to the House of Representatives expressing to them the changes that we went through.
Did you write a letter?
Yeah.
About how long was it?
About a page.
Okay. Saying you lost all of your possessions, and so forth?
Yeah. I think I had a copy. I got a copy of it, if you want.
Did you put a date on it?
No I didn't have a date, just the address.
It's December 15th, roughly, 1999 [that] you
wrote it.
Okay. And it says, “To Whom it May Concern. In representation of the
Hudson family in Pender county, I am writing this letter in reference to
how the releasing of the dams have affected our lives. First of all, our
family consists of six, two adults and four children, and my mother was
visiting from Maryland. I can't even begin to explain to you the turmoil
my family has been through because of the flood. On the day of the flood
me and my husband was helping neighbors to safety because our house was
Thank you. It's a great letter. I'm sure they would do something after reading this, these. How many people from the community wrote a letter?
Roughly twenty-five or thirty people, I think.
And you delivered them up there?
Yeah.
You rode in a bus?
Well, no. We had a pastor, we have a pastor in the community, and went and got his van.
A couple of cars.
And was about maybe seven or eight in the van. And we had three cars?
Um-hmm. See, they'd been having—FEMA'd been having meetings once a month
to find out the people's needs, and this and that. This is what is all
this come about. And they helped. And that's how we knew about the
meetings, too, by the
Oh, okay. So you go to the office and they tell you?
Right. We go to a meeting at Burgaw school. They have a big meeting for everybody to come to, for flood victims to find out what can they do to help their ( ) along, or speed up the process in helping to restore your lives.
Um-hmm. So, how do you feel? Is the governor's decision, the legislature's decision good? Are you satisfied with what they did?
The decision of the money was good, but once the money hit the accountants as to where it go to and what they do with it, that's what we got to look, the next stage we're going to look and see what the results going to be.
We have joined an organization here in the county called SOC, which stands for “Strengthening Our Communities.” And we want to be ( ) the situation, whereas when the money comes to the county we will be able to be accessible to the money that we can distribute it to the people. The money don't have to go directly to the families that lost. But if they would take the money, as in the past, and fix the water system, or whatever they want to make up that they did with the money, that's what they do. But we want to make sure that this time, because in hurricanes in the past they haven't been dispensing the money to the people that really has a need. We want to make sure that this time that the people that really has a need are able to get the money.
Get the full benefits of it.
Yeah.
And how will you do that? What's a better plan?
Well, we don't really have a better plan. In the organization we are trying to decide the needs of the people. It's a way that you can go about doing it, you know, contacting DSS or other—like say for instance, we have a lady there that's in charge of North Carolina housing, and what she would do is see how many families need her assistance for housing and how much money they might well need to get back into housing, or something to that effect. Just see about meeting the needs of the people. I don't really see the government as doing that. A lot of people I have experienced, personally, I haven't had to go through it, went down to Social Service to apply for the moneys that was supposed to be for the flood victims, and they were denied because of the money that they made in the past. That wasn't right. I mean, the money that they made in the past, or even the money that they have now, has nothing to do with what they lost in the flood.
Right.
So they shouldn't have been denied, you know.
Some people say that some got it who weren't flood victims at all.
Exactly. We've seen it. We've seen it.
We've seen it, too. That's the reason why we are having this organization. We screen out the people that wasn't damaged by the flood. That's the reason why we're starting this organization now. You have an application that you would have to fill out, and we would determine then whether you are eligible for help.
You should have proof if you was a flood victim. You would have, say for
instance, a FEMA number. You should have a FEMA number, or a proof of
residence
First come, first served.
Right.
And that's not the way it should be.
That's the same thing, like a lot of these that was in the lines for the Red Cross asking about water, ice, and supplies, and stuff like that—a lot of them people that was in them lines wasn't even damaged by the storm. But those people don't know. They only thing they know is that they're helping people by their jobs.
Right.
You really can't blame them because most of them are volunteers.
Whether you was in a disaster area or not. They don't have the time at that time. Or they didn't know the people that need help. And in order for them to reach the people that really need the help, they got to help everybody.
Right.
And we seen it. All the volunteers was from all over the world.
All over the world.
It wasn't local, so they wouldn't know if you were going to the lying.
So, if I want to join this organization, SOC, who do I get in touch with?
Her name is Darlene Adams, and she's an accountant at Taxes and Docs. I don't know the name of the street. It's downtown.
Downtown Burgaw. Just look for the sign that says Taxes and Docs. And if you want to sit in on one of our meetings, it's every Tuesday night at 6:30 at Taxes and Docs.
Six-thirty at Taxes and Docs.
And you can contact us if you wanted to come sit in and have your recorder.
Oh, thank you.
So they would let you know the purpose.
You can get the whole low down. We'd be glad for you to come, so you could spread the word.
I didn't have my pen out when you said her name. What was it again?
Darlene Adams.
Adams. And is it an organization that, as with the aid to the flood, an organization of people from the Latino community, and other—
All over. It's for the whole community.
It's to be for the whole community. It's a new organization that we're just trying to get kicked out of the ground. Get a foot hold.
That's a wonderful idea. Do you plan on staying together through the years?
We're going to start through thick and thin. Once we get started we ain't going to stop.
I'm the secretary.
Oh, okay. Great.
We said the purpose is a better community for minorities, to include equal rights and to help all people in need.
Right. And does it cost anything to join?
No.
No. No cost, just come. We started off with a lot of people, and I think
when the people came at first they thought it was just an opportunity
for them to get something quick. [Laughs.]
Oh.
But you've got to work first, you know.
You've got to be persistent, and patient.
It's not about us, but it's about the poor.
That's right. Everybody else. People.
They were surprised that me and my husband wanted to be part of the organization, and we were pretty much victims as they've seen. Like you were saying about the man that you were talking about earlier that had his, his face was burnt or whatever, he was more focused on helping somebody else. That's the most important thing, that you not look at your situation. The more that you help other people, the less you have to get caught up in your own situation. I found that helped me a lot, and I volunteered even that much more. The lady came to me when I was at the camp and said, “Would you consider volunteering at Christian Shelter?” And I said, “Oh, I already volunteer at the Christian Shelter.” And the lady said, “Oh, you're Edith Hudson.” She had my name wrong, she just didn't know how to account for this Elberta with an “E” instead of an “A.” And she said, “Oh, I never knew who you was. I see your name four or five times on the calendar.” But I got to meet her. I didn't even know her, you know. She was from the Presbyterian Church.
Oh, that's great. Well, our tape is almost ended, but I think we've gotten so much information from you.
I think you've filled it up.
Yeah. [Everyone laughs.]
He likes to say I talk a lot.
And we thank you very much for sharing your lives and your faith and your hopes for the future with us.
Welcome to our community.
Well, we thank you for the opportunity to share, because it's always, it's a healing process to talk about it and talk about it in a good way and not a bad way. Great things has been happening to us even though we had to go through the bad things to get to this point. But we're not focusing on the past. We're focusing on the future.
Right. That five bedroom—
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]