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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview K-0438, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
Leroy Magness spent most of his life in Lincolnton, North Carolina, about thirty-five miles from Charlotte. A poet, and a man who "didn't want to be a troublemaker," Magness has an easy relationship with his past as an African American in a segregated southern town. He did not participate in the civil rights movement, nor approve of those that did, believing that good behavior was a better catalyst for change than activism. This determination to avoid conflict lies at the heart of this interview, and, it seems, at the heart of Magness's character. He will not place blame for segregation, and his principal memory of desegregation was some trouble between white and black students.
Leroy Magness describes his belief in avoiding conflict, and how that belief shaped his response to the civil rights movement.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
I've lived here all my life. I did leave here in 1933; I thought I wanted to go and live in Chicago but I found I didn't want to live there. I was in the wrong place. I left in October and in December I came back home. My mother had two sisters and a son and a couple of aunts, and I met a cousin and an aunt up there; I thought I wanted to go there but I found out that I didn't like it. It was too cold, for one thing, and I hadn't been used to …
I left home in about the sixth or seventh grade - about 13 years old -
and I'd never been to a mixed school before, but I went to a mixed
school in Chicago for a couple of weeks, and everybody was nice… but I
didn't have any children to play
But we didn't move up there; my mother had two sisters living there and
an aunt, and I had a brother living up there. He went up there in 1926
but he liked it all right, but I didn't so I didn't stay. I went in
October and got back home by Christmas, by accident. But Daddy didn't
really want to send me the money to come back, because he said I was so
hot to go he wanted me to stay up there, because it was near Christmas
time and I had a brother and two sisters. Back in the thirties, nobody
had much money, but I had been working at a store on Main Street, that
guy on Main Street right there, and of course it's torn down now. And
the lady and her husband found out about it and kind of wanted me to
come back. So it was right funny, she told my Daddy if he would give me
half the money, she would give me the other half and I could work to pay
her back. Well, they sent me twelve dollars, I believe it was. And I was
thirteen years old, but being small like I am right now, my aunt went
down and bought a half-fare ticket and said ‘don't you tell
Oh my gosh!
It was on the bus. Well, when I got back - I had always been taught to
be honest - I gave my daddy six dollars and a half back thinking that he
had paid the whole thing, but when I found out about it, I had to work
to pay them people back at fifty cents a week and I didn't make but a
dollar a week, so I had to pay them fifty cents out of my dollar a week
before I could pay them back. But things … I don't know … children now
are different; we were discussing that this morning. Children now are
different, not what they were when I was coming up. If I offered my
grandson fifty cents to do something around here, he'd laugh at that. He
wouldn't accept that. But we took what we could get, and if we weren't
satisfied, we'd pretend like we were, but now they'll let you know if
they're not satisfied. However, I have something here called Lincolnton Tales …
And I wrote a piece in that
So tell me then - what was it about here that made you come back from Chicago?
Well, I had a girlfriend, for one thing,There's my school picture right there. We had nine.
What school was this?
Oaklawn School. The building's still there. But it was a black school. And it went from the primary to the high school, and in Lincolnton at that time, the high school wasn't accredited. That was one reason I guess I quit. I dropped out of the tenth grade. I didn't finish school. Yeah, I quit the tenth grade. But I don't know whether I missed out on things or not, I mean, I'm getting along all right. I'm retired going on eleven years, and I'm still working some. How old do you think I am?
Sixty-five?
Seventy-nine years old.
Oh my gosh!
If I live to see January twelfth I'll be eighty years old! I've been married sixty-one years. Sixty-one years…
Well, see, we went to school, and that was the class. I think it was seventh or eighth grade, I believe.
That's everyone that was in it?
In that one class, yeah.
It must have been a close group of friends.
Well, that was all we had, that one class. Didn't have too many, and that day I believe there's one, two, three, four… there's ten there, but we had eleven; one must have been out on picture day. That was the seventh or eighth grade, in about 1936. But that piece, I wrote that piece …
I'd really like to read it.
Yeah, I wrote that. We had a good setup. But I look back and see a lot of stuff I could've gotten or a lot of things I could've done, and I didn't do. But we had a good English teacher over there. In fact, he's been retired now, I guess two or three years, so he'd be about ninety years old now. He taught - in '63 or '64, he was head of the English department down there at Southern University. I made a trip down there, and my cousins lived down there. And we went down there thinking we were going to see an old man, but we saw a super-young man. He had about two or three kids.
A lot of that, I missed that, so some of that I kind of regret, but other than that, I don't regret … When you work, it's not what you make; it's what you do with it after you make it. I never made a whole lot of money in my life, but I managed to pay my debts, and I got along good.
What did you do when you…
I worked as a hospital orderly for sixteen years. Then I worked over there at the ABC store where I told you to turn. That's my work. I worked over there for twenty years, and I've been retired for eleven years, and I still work over there some. Maybe a couple times a month. So I worked over there a while, and then I was on with Carolina Cameras for a bit. I've been to about every school in Lincoln County, too. Sometimes I go around there and I recite poetry. I don't read it, I recite it. Most of it that I have, I've already memorized it before I even write it. For instance, next Sunday's Easter, and spring means Easter …
Those thoughts… I had them before I ever wrote them down. Just probably an act of God.
It's no use going around, holding you head up, being angry with someone.
I'm not angry with anybody. There's a lot of things that I didn't
approve of, but the way I felt about it, we had a voice back in the
fifties …being in the choir. We'd go around to different places and
sing. But I told them, integrate yourself with the very best of people
as much as
Now I was in the Boy Scouts back when I was a boy, and if everyone would act like Boy Scouts, we wouldn't have a bit of trouble in this world. We had rules we'd go by, and oaths… but it's a whole lot easier to do good than to do bad, I think. But some people just, I don't know…
What was Boy Scouts like for you?
Well, it was nice. Here in Lincolnton, we didn't have enough black boys
to carry out all the details, or all the things it took to be a Boy
Scout, but we could do things at
We got along pretty good. I don't think … well, Lincolnton's always had a
lot of church people and I think most of them … I think 95 percent of
them wanted to do right, tried to do right. We had picture shows, and we
had to go up and sit in the balcony, but that didn't bother me. Some
other people, it might have bothered them. But I might have been one who
had a little bit different attitude from some people. Some people didn't
like certain things, but the way I looked at it, if you don't like
certain things, you don't have to deal with it. I've been on a lot of
boards around here - the human relations council for a good number of
years, I've got it in a scrapbook somewhere - but the City Council named
people, black and white, to be on that council, and during that time
they still had segregation. But I called up the chairman, and - we had a
hotel here, but it was being torn down; it was where the citizens'
center is now, but - I went up there to the council, and nobody said
anything; they all treated me right. I've been working for the
Democratic Party I don't know how long, and I've
But I remember when I was in Chicago one time - I've been up there several times - the taxi driver told me that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, and I would agree with him there because if you try to treat people right, then most of them - maybe not all - will treat you halfway decent. But if you go and try to treat someone ugly, then that's exactly what they want. Yeah, that's what they want.
Do you think there's ever a time when being nice doesn't work?
Yeah, I think being nice does work. But I always tried to be nice to
people, and I got along with people most of the time. I worked up on
Main Street for sixteen years as a hospital orderly and I met a lot of
people there I guess. If you try to put some good into things, you'll
get some good out of it. If you're not going to put
Have you enjoyed living here?
Oh yeah. I wouldn't move. I'll be here until the Good Man takes me. I like to go out some. Sometimes I'd go up to Fort Washington. I met President [context later in the interview suggests he means Senator Edward] Kennedy up at Andrew Air Force Base. The first time I went up there I was just going to try to make arrangements to see him; after I made arrangements, I didn't get there soon enough so I didn't get to see him, but he did write me a nice letter to tell me he was sorry he missed me. The fellows over there where I worked - about three or four years ago, I guess - when the Charlotte Hornets were getting started, we all went in together and bought him a Hornets sweatshirt and we took it up to him … yeah. I had written a couple of poems about his brother, the last time he was in North Carolina, and the other was after he passed. My and my wife, when our son was going to school, North Carolina Central … so we went over there because a fellow had gotten us some tickets … I got a scrapbook with all that stuff in it. Big scrapbook with lots of letters; I've even got a card from Norman Rockwell.
Yeah, I'd love to look at it.
Let me see if I can get it right quick …
What's this?
Did you serve?
Well, I've got a brother that served in two wars, but not me.
It looks like you saved most all your letters here.
Yeah.
Is this from your school? Could you tell me a little more about your time in school? What was that like?
That was nice, I enjoyed it.
What were classes like? A typical day in school?
Well, good, but some of them wasn't too good for me because I wasn't
doing my French and English quite like I should have. We had about six
or seven teachers though. We had one who was a professor, a very good
mathematician. And we had a very good English teacher who I told you
about named Faggett, Henry Faggett [sp?]. And I believe Juanita Baker
[sp?] was in charge of the seventh grade…and we had some others but it's
been so long, I can't remember most of them. But I enjoyed going to
school. We had all our friends. I didn't play ball; I loved to watch it,
but I didn't play it. We had football and basketball and baseball, but I
didn't have any part because I was working
What did most people do for a living?
Well, most of them worked when they could, but the common laborer wasn't making but ten or fifteen cents an hour till Roosevelt came in. He was working about twelve hours a day, sunup to sundown; when Mr. Roosevelt came in, I think he changed it to eight hours and raised the minimum wage to twenty-five cents and hour. Yep, that's what he did.
And what did your family do?
We had Social Security…I don't know if I've got that card in my pocket or not. I got my Social Security card in 1937, and they only took out a penny on the dollar.
Well, that's the second Social Security card I had. I know I've got the original around somewhere…no, actually that's what that is - says 1937. Yep, they took out a penny on the dollar.
My daddy worked at a powdery [sp?]. My mama didn't work - she stayed home. We were discussing that in Sunday School this morning. She stayed at home and cooked good meals - beans, biscuits, and stuff like that. But everybody now wants to keep up with the Joneses, and the mothers work and the husbands do too, so I think that's why the children aren't getting the attention they need. Not getting the attention they need.
If they're not getting the attention they need at home, they don't get it in school, then they don't get it at all. You can't expect the teachers to do it because they're there to teach, not to tell them what to do. Now, everybody wants something … money to buy a car and this and that, and I had to save up my money just to buy a bicycle.
You see, we had a couple of theaters here in town - I think I told you about all that - at one time, you couldn't go in the front. And we had cafes, and we couldn't go to through the front of them for a long time before they changed things. We had to go to the back. But we was lucky in a way. We had our own cafes. I think they had one on each end of town. And then they had a place out there called Midland, and you could get treats sometimes on a Sunday night. It was a white place, and you would go get a cone of ice cream and they had a little place to sit down; of course, they didn't have much of a place to sit down for anybody.
That's Kennedy right there. During that time we had this boy's cousin … he came here twice.
Really?
Those two are dead, but I don't know about the other one.
They came here to Lincolnton?
Yeah, we had them down here twice. Down at WBTV.
You were talking earlier about when you had to go to the back of the theaters and cafes, and then all that changed. What was that like for you? What were you thinking at the time?
Well, like I told you, you can't compare me to other people because I had a different attitude than some. But … you had to get used to it. Beause when things change you got to get used to things, but like I said, some people wanted to change things worse than I did. And they were willing to make sacrifices to do it. But I wasn't willing to make sacrifices to do certain things. I was pretty well satisfied with what I was doing. But after everything changed, people did what they wanted to do, about going to cafes, sitting where you wanted to sit. We had buses here in Lincolnton - you had to sit in the back - we couldn't sit up front.
All this was changed. In fact, I think I read a piece in the paper yesterday where they were giving Rosa Parks a plaque or something to say what she did. At that time, maybe it didn't seem like it was right, but in the final analysis, they figured out that that was the thing she should've done. Because what they were doing was taking away our rights when they really didn't have any reason to do that.
What did you think at the time when Rosa Parks did that?
;Well, in a way I wasn't too thrilled over it ëcause we had to take a lot of abuse - well, you didn't have to take abuse, with your hands - but, in places where we were working … there wasn't but two blacks where I was working at that particular time. And so you always have a few around that didn't agree with what she was doing, and they would make remarks you didn't like…but the best thing you could do was be quiet and not say nothing about it and let it go at that, because if you did, you might get in trouble with a fight, or you might lose your job.
So you just had to look over things like that, and I found out that all
through the years when I did that, things began to change. Like the old
Negro spiritual says, let God take charge, and things'll come. They may
not come when you want them to, but right'll always come when it's
supposed to come. But you'll meet many other people out here in the
community who will tell you
But I'm glad things are working out like they are. They actually have something this week where black churches and white churches are having holy week services together. Like tonight the service is at the white church, but I think the next night it'll be at a black church … and that'll go on all week. And I had a man make the remark when they were just starting to integrate - he said, ‘Leroy, if we had more people like you, I reckon we wouldn't have trouble.’
‘Listen, there's a lot of people better than I am, but you just don't know them.’
Now see [addressing Markey] if your teacher or whomever hadn't recommended me as being the right type of person for you to come visit, you wouldn't have come, would you?
Well, I guess I wouldn't have known
See, that's what I mean. I think that how we conduct ourselves - that's the way people begin to learn us a little bit. And then some people you think are all right aren't what you think they are. But I say 95 or 96 percent you would expect to have good dealings with, I think most of them would be all right.
Now I was telling someone the other day that I had a good mother. She
died …if I could keep my right mind, I wouldn't
What kinds of things do you hold on to from your mom? What do you remember about her?
Oh, I just remember, she was almost too good to me in a way. Even when I was getting up to be a pretty good size of a boy, about ten or eleven years old, and we didn't have no bathtub, just a tin tub to bathe in. My mama was still washing my back. She'd cook something, and even when I wasn't around, if she thought I'd like it, she'd save me some. And she'd save me a lot of it - a piece of white meat or the breast of a chicken - and I never did tell her, but I really didn't like white meat that good, but I didn't want her to feel bad. No, I didn't like it that good. I'd eat it, but I liked the other part of the chicken better than I liked the breast.
And there are so many nice things that parents - good parents - do for
children. Like seeing them to Sunday school. And we were poor and didn't
have too many clothes, and she would see that they were always clean,
and sometimes she'd have to put a
Some of these young people now, I don't think they know what they want. I got one grandson who's already been married twice. Got three children by one and two by another. I don't know. They just don't seem to be like what they used to be.
Why do you think that is?
I just don't know. I guess it's the times. Well, I guess it is the times, because I know I was reading a couple of weeks ago, when they were carrying Jesus Christ to the cross to be crucified, some lady began to cry and didn't sympathize - of course, nobody sympathized, but this lady broke down and somebody said, ‘you ain't got to save them for yourself because the time would come when a barren woman would be considered fortunate.
What?
When a barren woman - a woman who couldn't have kids - would be fortunate. Wouldn't have all this mess to go through. I think me and my wife are ready to turn that. I've got this little book to read, and me and my wife read it every day. Like a book of inspirations, tells you what passages to read in the Bible to read, and I read that. In fact, my sister who lives across the street there, that's what she gives me for Christmas every year.
I have two sisters, one lives across over there and the other one lives down the street. I had two brothers and two sisters, and I think I was the puniest one in the family. One of my brothers served in World War II and then the Korean War, and then he came home and had an accident. My older brother who's about ten years older than me died in '56. So I outlived my mama and my daddy too. He died not quite seventy and my mom died when she was 72. And my wife's 75 …
But I think all in all we've got a pretty good place to live in. Everybody might not agree with that, but that's just my feeling about it. We've had some tough times, but I think things have improved for everybody.
In what way?
Well, we have better facilities. We have, if you qualify, the chance to get a better job, not as many as like Charlotte, but I think most places around here, if you qualify you can get a better job. And that was something you couldn't do years ago, because if you were qualified, maybe the job was filled with someone else who was white, but I think it was all right generally.
What I'm saying is you've got to get out there and work for something.
You can't expect people to come and just hand you something without
working for it, because that's just not going to happen. Like I told
you, I quit school. I could've been a teacher; I had the opportunity to
go to Southern University if I'd have finished high school. But I chose
to get married, and I'm not dissatisfied by it. I'm happy. Maybe I don't
have as much money as I would've had, but I don't think money's
everything anyway. Being happy is what really counts. I know plenty of
people who have plenty of money but they're not happy. I mean, I try not
to get down and out, but I'm a little… not exactly depressed, but… my
wife's not feeling as good as she'd like to, and I'm hoping that she'll
get to feeling better. She fell and broke her hip about four years ago,
and before she did that, she could do some things I couldn't do. She
could bend over and touch the floor without bending her knees - I can't!
But I hope she'll get better. We had good days. We've been on
What are some of your best memories?
Oh, well…I guess there's been so many good ones I can't … Well, she was with me - I enjoyed going to Senator Kennedy's office, that was one, maybe not the best one. He had the nicest secretary. A lady from Boston, Massachusetts, and she loves to take pictures, took our picture. We had a nice day there. I don't know where they are now, but I've got so many photographs here I can't sort them all. And we made a trip to Florida, right before Disneyland opened; we were down in that neighborhood. Went to the World's Fair in New York. Then Chicago. And we've got friends in Columbus, Ohio, so we've been there a few times. And Wright Air Force Base where we got to see all those nice old antique air force planes, and then the Langley Air Force Base. So we've enjoyed it. I don't have many regrets. No regrets.
What have been some of the most significant events or people in your life?
Well I don't know… when I met her, I guess. I guess. And I was a mama's
boy, so Mama was next to her. I guess between the two of them, that was
the most wonderful things that happened to me, being associated with
those two. Of
But it won't run eight days like it's supposed to without winding it. I don't know what it is, I guess the springs are weak or something. If I don't wind it, it won't run eight days.
So I don't know. Like I told you, I could give you some other names you could contact that might give a different story, but I never was one to be a troublemaker. I kind of stayed back, didn't like to be in front like some people. I'm satisfied with the way I got along. Not angry with anybody. Satisfied.
What are these letters from?
Oh those are from doctors where I worked at the orthopedic hospital. There was a little boy down there. He didn't have anybody, and I would try to be nice to him and do things for him because he had nobody to ever come see him. Now what do you think of somebody being in the hospital and nobody ever coming to see him?
I can't imagine.
Yeah, our son had some trouble when he was an infant, and he had to go to the orthopedic hospital for about six or seven months, and me and my wife would go twice a week to see that boy too and bring him things. Like he didn't have a radio… yeah, we just kind of divided with him.
I guess the church is pretty important to you? I see some letters here …
Oh yeah. Very important. I used to be an elder in the church, but I stepped back a little bit, but I go. I go to Sunday school every morning at ten o'clock. We're not in the same church; she's a United Methodist, and I'm an African Methodist Episcopal. So we went to her church today. She goes down to church out there in the country on [Hwy] 73; you probably passed it.
What's it called?
Tucker's Grove United Methodist Church.
I remember that. They have the camp meetings there, don't they?
Yeah, they had the camp meetings there in August. About two weeks.
Do you go to that?
Yeah, we went there today. That's where she goes, but I go in town here on Main Street. But she never asked me to quit and join her church so I don't ask her to quit. So what we do is go to my church first for Sunday school and the service and then we go to hers. Her church doesn't start till twelve because their preacher preaches at two churches. So that gives us plenty of time to get down there before they start. Now you told me one time, but what part of Virginia are you from?
A place called Rockville. It's kind of a rural area about 20 miles from Richmond.
Oh yeah. My nephew's in Richmond right now.
What does he do there?
Well, he's a lieutenant. Oh, he told me… they buy things for the
government? He went to Utah this month, and he just got back yesterday,
I think. But his home - where he's got his wife and house and a baby -
is in Fort Washington, Maryland. But he'll go down there in the morning
and go back home Friday evening. So he came down here with his wife and
they picked us up
Well, you might get a news desk, get on TV!
I really don't know.
You might get on TV.
She's dead now, but she was a white lady I worked with up at the hospital. They're both dead now, but they were the nicest people.
Well, I don't know if there's any connection there, but there's a good many Dellingers in Lincoln County.
You've really collected a lot of stuff here.
Yeah, I reckon I'll leave it to my great-grandson when I'm gone.
Oh, that's Pat Taylor. He was running for governor. I was the chairman of a program, yeah. Patrick Taylor. He was a nice fellow. Skipper Bowles beat him out, though. They had some kind of a conflict, Skipper Bowles beat him out, and that's how he got to be governor. The Democratic party split. One got angry, and I don't know who was right and who was wrong. I was a Pat Taylor man, but I could have voted for Skipper Bowles, and I guess I did at the final analysis, but a lot of Democrats didn't vote for him on account of Mr. Taylor. That's how you get beat, though; when you've got one side of a party against another, and get them angry, that's what gets them beat.
What happened?
I don't exactly remember. Just politics.
Well, what would you say have been some of the biggest changes around here in your lifetime?
I'd say the schools when they integrated. You mean through the years, is that what you're saying? Yeah, I guess the schools.
What were you thinking when desegregation occurred?
What did I think about it? Well, I guess I didn't think about it as much as some people because I wasn't in school and when they started going, they had a little trouble at first, but I don't think it really amounted to much.
What was the trouble specifically?
Well … I don't know … like I told you, maybe one or two of the whites and a couple of the blacks didn't see eye to eye on something - schoolchildren. Yeah, schoolchildren. I don't think any grown people were involved; I don't really remember. But I do remember hearing something about some of the schoolchildren getting into a ruckus, but they got it straightened out pretty quick and there wasn't any bad results out of it. I think some of the NAACP offices went and straightened out some of the black children, but I can't say about any of the white children or who looked after them. They did get it straightened out so it wasn't too bad.
Do you think desegregation was worth it?
Well, some are discussing it now, but I don't really know. What they're
saying is that is wasn't equal and that the blacks weren't getting what
they were supposed to be getting. I know
Just like Charlotte. I don't go to Charlotte. I went to Charlotte one
time several years ago because I wanted to see about getting me a suit.
I went to the store and went in. But then I came out and my wife said,
‘Where's your suit?’ And I
What scares you about it?
They've got so much hell raising going on over there wouldn't you be afraid? I'm afraid of it, and I don't mean any harm telling you. I'm scared of Charlotte. I don't go, not by myself. I go with somebody else. It shouldn't be that way. Just people have got so mean. They'll take your car. I heard people bumping cars with folks over there. Man down the street said someone bumped his car.
I don't know what it's coming to. What do you think about this 2000 millennium? I was talking to a white lady who I used to work for last night. The way she was talking last night, it's scary.
You mean about the computers?
They say if the computers go down, everything will go down.
I hope they're wrong.
Yeah, I hope they are, too. How would we get along? If you had a
generator but no gas to run it, you still wouldn't have no lights. She
said they bought a wood stove just in case. Well, as high as wood is, a
pile from down the road there is fifteen dollars and that would hardly
last you three days. I don't know what it's coming to. Sad. The thing
about it is, young folks like
Well, I've kept you a while. If there's anything you'd like to add that I haven't asked yet, feel free to mention it. Maybe something that I didn't ask that you feel it would have been important to discuss …?
You might have asked me something that I could have answered, but I don't
know anything in particular. Maybe you know something you want to ask
me, so feel free to ask me and I'll be honest with you. I won't tell no
story; I'll tell it like it is, the truth. Like I said, I've gotten
along pretty good. Except during the Depression, we had financial
problems. But even back then, there were white people in this town - if
they knew you, they'd help you if they could. You always had some good
people around here in Lincoln. Good church people, and I think that made
a difference. I know some of my white friends would say, ‘Leroy, now
that I'm grown I know better. A lot of things my folks told me, I don't
agree with any more.’ So I'm not holding anybody responsible. We're
supposed to be good Christians, and that's what I'm trying to do. We're
supposed to love everybody, and
Like there were several folks around here who, if they knew you, they'd give you some bones and even leave a little meat on them so you could make some soup. And that was white giving black something. So there's always been some good people. If there wasn't the world wouldn't stand. As many good people during segregation as any time.
Yeah, Mr. Harley worked in a meat market. He was nice about giving you
meat bones and things. If they knew you, they'd try to help you out.
Even during segregation. I was brought up in the Presbyterian Church,
even though I go to a Methodist Church now. Well that Presbyterian
Church is having a mixed service tonight. Every Christmas they give all
our children nice bags. If they needed books, they'd give that. But I
can't help but like them because there were a whole lot of Christmases
when I was a boy when I didn't get as much as I wanted. So I've got a
place in my heart for that congregation because they were so nice to us.
The reason I got in to the Methodist Church where I'm going now was
because one of those girls I liked started going there and I just
I'll tell you what - do you have a piece of paper or something so I can get your phone number and address? I'll just stick that in my book so I can keep it. I enjoyed talking with you. I hope I helped you.
Oh definitely. This has been great and I've enjoyed it.
I hope so.
I appreciate your taking the time to talk. And to put up with my lateness.
END OF INTERVIEW