© This work is the property of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text.
MP3 file derived from WAV preservation master, which was derived from original analog cassettes.
The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-Chapel Hill digital library, Documenting the American South.
An audio file with the interview complements this electronic edition.
The text has been entered using double-keying and verified against the original.
The text has been encoded using the recommendations for Level 4 of the TEI in Libraries Guidelines.
Original grammar and spelling have been preserved.
All quotation marks, em dashes and ampersand have been transcribed as entity references.
All double right and left quotation marks are encoded as "
All em dashes are encoded as —
Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview K-0817, in
the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern Historical
Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill”
Kanwal Rahman left Bangladesh for the United States in 1991, looking forward to earning a public health degree from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. The second thoughts she had as soon as she got on the plane were compounded by her workload; feeling alone and overworked, she wanted at once to return home. She stayed on, however, determined to prove her worth and hopeful that she might use her success to benefit her home country. Eight years later, at the time of this interview, Rahman has found her niche, and some good friends, in the Chapel Hill area. But she has not lost that sense of connection with Bangladesh, and feels acutely the sense of separation from her family there. In this interview, she reflects on her experience and her efforts at adjustment. One of the most difficult adjustments to make was embracing the American ethic of independence, the opposite of the interdependent, even dependent, posture she learned as one of five daughters of a very successful father. In making this adjustment, Rahman uncovered hidden strengths, but concedes, too, that she worries for her future as a single Asian woman in America. This concern dramatizes her enduring connection to Bangladeshi culture and the way in which assimilation challenges the core of at least one immigrant's sense of self.
Kanwal Rahman, who arrived in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, from Bangladesh in 1991 to study public health, describes her enduring connection to her homeland and her struggle to adjust to the American way of life.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
Okay. I'm just gonna start by, sort of—you know, like we discussed, just asking you about—sort of the background to your being here, what brought you here, and, sort of, what, what some of your experiences were right at the beginning. So—why don't you tell me about when you came here, and , why you—? Yeah! Why did you decide to come to the U.S.?
The motivation behind it?
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, actually I came in August , twenty-first, 1991. That would be the
exact date I landed at the JFK airport. But, for my background, I came
here for graduate studies at UNC-Chapel Hill in public health and policy
and administration. Prior to that, I had a government position with the
Ministry of Health, Bangladesh, as a dental surgeon, working in public
health , work in rural areas. I had a dental surgery degree from Dhaka
University, Bangladesh, and I just thought it would help my career,
further a lot if I had a master's from a recognized university. I talked
to my friends who had a lot—who were physicians, were already doing
their master's here in public health. One of them suggested that UNC has
a very good program, considering the out-of-state tuition rates,
compared to other universities, and I thought I'd apply. They accepted,
and the other places I applied was Ann Arbor Michigan. They had accepted
there too, but North Carolina being warmer, I decided to come here. I
had no clue what I was coming into, just that I was accepted and I'm
going. And, my background was such that—I really wasn't, expecting any
kind of independent work apart from education. I wasn't mentally
prepared for living alone and, and doing everything alone with very
little help. But I came—and the first
So, so you came in ninety-one—.
Ninety-one—.
Did you, when you were on your way here, did you ever imagine you would be here—what—eight years now?
When I was in the plane, I already—, had second thoughts. Why am I flying off the ground that I know very well? Why am I leaving the family, and the support and the—, let's just say the ease of living and comfort of something known, for something totally unknown.
Yeah.
And then, I guess I answered that, I said it's maybe, it's my wanderlust, and, if I don't make it, fine, I'll come back. But I never imagined I would stay eight years. And, I think, after the third year of living here I decided that I will stay here and try to make a life of mine here. Prior to that, I was going to go back home, and I was actually very determined.
So, right at the point where you felt made that decision of, I'm going to be here and not go back, was it more about America, or was it more about Bangladesh? Do you, do you see what I'm trying to say, was the decision more about because you wanted to live in America, or was it more about that "I don't want go back to Bangladesh"?
My heart still wants to go back to Bangladesh. That's where my home is, and I think, America will always be a home—a second home—but never my first home. To be very honest, the reasons are far more deeper and very personal. The reason I decided to stay back was, sort of, a stubborn decision making that, okay, I came here, I got my degree. If I go back home, there are a lot of expectations, not from my immediate family, but around—. "Oh, she couldn't make it in America."
Right!
And—, that's one of the reasons I stayed back and as I was saying was I spent so much time already—four years. Might as well try to make the rest of it here. And—, that was basically my motivation, otherwise, the other—the second—thought was because of the global politics, America is a forerunner in political power.
Yeah.
And, Bangladesh has always had its political problems—this party coming in, and that party going out—lot of strikes, and I just thought if I could stay here, and make my life worth living, I might even be able to do something in public health there. Maybe from the country's capital, like D.C.—.
Right.
Make—, make our policies—.
Yeah. Right. Right.
Answered that!
Yeah. So, okay. So you at all interact with, what you would consider, sort of, your community here, or, what would the term "community" even mean to you, here in this context, in America?
I believe that the community feeling is very strong among most Bangladeshi's and they, interact very much with each other, and—. Because most of the people who are from Bangladesh over here in Chapel Hill, Raleigh/Durham areas, are either going to college, or studying their master or higher studies or working in a field relevant to their studies—. I, per se, have not been much in touch with my community, only because there are certain limitations right now—not having a car, not having the time—not being in my field of work yet, as I wanted to be—.
Okay.
And—, that—.
But you feel that they as a community are quite open to that. They, Otherwise there's a lot of interaction between, sort of, other Bangladeshi's who, you know—.
There is! There is a very strong—. Because they celebrate their national holidays among themselves, or a Saturday—. So, the communities are pretty strong.
Okay.
I do interact with a lot of American friends and I think—, to tell you the truth I have, because of my work and because of the way I'm living my life right now, I, I interact more with Americans than any of my community members, and—, But with families, I never had much of a chance, apart from my older sisters in-laws, who are Americans and, maybe on an odd Christmas I'd go out and have, to Chicago and have dinner with them, or spend Christmas with them. But otherwise, all of, all of—, people I interact with are Americans, and they are friends.
Uh-huh. So—. Could you talk a little bit about your experiences about that for, I mean, just to give you an example, when I first came to this country, I really struggled in my first year because I found that—, I just felt I had no friends, and it took me about a year to adjust to this culture and to realize that very often friendship, the way we understand friendship in the Indian community is a little different from the concept of friendship understood by a lot of Americans. So, once I got over that, I found that I had a lot of American friends, so, just using that as an example, what have some of your experiences been? And have they, sort of, largely been positive, or negative, or mixed?
Well, I had a very hard time the first year too, only because I thought
that, you know, the, the friends I met at graduate school, on a, on the
whole they were very open, and they were all very open to me and, and I
was invited to a lot of parties and—, like happy hour and hanging out.
But maybe because I was new in the country and I wanted to retain myself
in my culture and I was staunch about
Yeah.
I pass them every day. I've lived in Chapel Hill for eight years. I more
or less see the same people. Friends are friends as long as you take
them on their basis, on their face values, but yes—I have learnt to not,
not to expect the kind of depth I had as friends—. Of course when you
are younger your feeling of friendship and ideas of—, closeness and
bonding with people are much more stronger. Because of the busy-ness of
life as you grow older, you realize that friendship, you have to take as
they are on the face value and not expect or demand more—.
Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
That is—, that's the feeling, and I have worked in, like, you know, places like retail and all, where all the associates are very friendly, and we have great times. Sometimes we even go out now, you know, when we have time to watch the movies with this friend or that friend, but—,
There's always that one final barrier?
That one final barrier and, it hasn't—. I don't know, it isn't, anything
to do with race or people, it's the, I think it's the American—,
American-ness. With African—. I have very good African American friends
and I have very good—,
Exactly! And I think that's, sort of, what I was saying earlier, and that's the same thing that I struggled a lot with that—, I was very frustrated initially, because I expected that they would expect the same out of a friendship that I would, and so once I got to the point where I realized that that wouldn't be the case, I was actually able to make some good friends.
Okay.
Yeah. But that's still, that's still a concern, but then I had to tell myself this is a different world, it's a different culture, and I just have to accept that.
True.
Yeah.
It's a more self—, more independent culture and I guess independence is taught from the very childhood, which we are not taught, but thrown into. Even at the ripe age of twenty five or twenty six, we come to graduate school, so—.
Yeah.
Then you have to learn to do it all over again on your own. There's no teaching.
In fact, that's really interesting you mention independence because very
often when I've tried to, in my mind, analyze the differences between
the
Yes.
And that's across all generations, so I mean, that presents, to me at least presents a very interesting conflict.
Conflict in cultures—.
Yeah. And expectations. I'm gonna pause this right here and just check
very quickly that this is working.
Okay. So, we are continuing and—, again, this is Rajika chatting with
Kanwal Rahman. So, we're going to continue talking—.
Reached a—.
A level of acceptance in your mind that this is okay, this is how you want it to be.
Well, let's say that, oh, I come from a family of five sisters and no
brothers. In an Asian culture where, usually brothers are, are an
important part of the family and not having a male member in the family,
the only role model we ever saw was Dad. And my dad was a very different
kind of a person. He wasn't a nine-to-five worker. He wasn't an
engineer, he wasn't a doctor, he was—. He was a very prominent movie
star, actor, director, producer, and writer. But a person who was also
physically handicapped. Being such a person's daughter, being part of
all that, and also, being, trying to grow up as a, you know, as my
mother would say, grow up like everybody else, go to school, excel in
studies, and focus only on studies, and nothing creative! I think we
tried to manage to do all that and, motivation was, everyone's going out
to do higher studies. Well, so I came for higher studies for that. But—,
as you were saying that—, staying away eight years—which of course was
my personal decision. They, they wanted me to come back. How I have
managed to accept that, being away from them eight years, not being able
to go home—. The only way I can communicate with them is a, through the
telephone, which I do about once a month and—, that takes some of the
edge off the craving to hear their voices and—, to tell you the truth, I
don't think I have ever really accepted the fact that I have, I have
spent eight years away from my family, because in our culture family
means a lot and—, because my father had, had two strokes since then. I
just felt that I have spent valuable time away from him and not been of
service for him. And these are the issues that sometimes are deep back
in my mind that—, after all, all life is finite, and if—, if I don't
spend some of it with my close ones when they need me, what is there—?
What will I have to look back on that okay, I have done my duty, and
all. That's
Yeah. I think—. I think, that's a—, I mean, that's something I really appreciate that, that it's very rarely that one comes to terms with that sentiment. It's just something you accept as part of living here.
That's true—.
Or living anywhere else, I guess, in another country away from your home. That it's—, there's never that point where you say, I accept this and this is, fine with me!
Fine with me. That never is there—.
It's never fine. You just keep doing things that, that'll—.
That you feel that you have to do, do what you have to do right now, but in the back of your mind there's—, something in your mind tells you that, spending time with your family, working there, and—, If anything happens to my dad—God forbid!—then I'll not have any regrets. Okay, I've spent, I did—. I was of service, and now that part is gone.
Yeah. Definitely.
I would say there's no resemblance to what the life I left, lived back
home. Even the sense of community—. Sure, I was a newly graduated
Yeah. Certainly. Yeah.
Well, of course, eight years in a culture without going back home
periodically like a lot of —, my friends from Bangladesh do, or have the
lucky opportunity to do so. I didn't have that. It has changed me a lot.
It has made me more reflective. It also could be—, something to do with
the fact that you're more alone, and, and it's not—, and most of your
decisions you make alone, most your strivings you're doing alone. You
may have friends, but they're not with you at night when you're going to
bed, in the next room, like your parents were and the rest of your four
sisters were. So, you don't have that feeling of security, and—, how it
has evolved as, me as a woman, I realize strengths in me that I didn't
think eight years back that I have. I would say I've matured at a faster
rate, regardless of the fact that from your twenties into early thirties
there is a growth change and you are reflective, because of the decade—,
Right.
And that—. I think, one thing that happens is, is a continental girl or South Asian girl stays here alone—I'm not saying with the support of a husband—it's a whole different story than someone who come here with her husband who already has a job and she's a housewife here, and—.
Oh, yeah. I know exactly what you mean and I agree with that and when I
posed that question to you, I was talking exactly about those people.
People like you and me, who come here as single, independent people and
not already in
With a spouse.
Yeah, with a spouse, as opposed to coming here alone and, sort of, navigating your way—.
Navigating your way around—. And then finding the best way of—, dealing, and then learning to also respond the way—. You end up learning to respond the way they expect you to. Not necessarily giving up your identity, but basically, you end up being—, behaving and acting in a way that is more common with Americans, and that's also giving out the image that you're very confident and mature, and responsible, which develops anyway, by the time you're eight years. But inside, you can still be insecure, regardless of the fact that you have developed all these other aspects, too. The feeling of insecurity as a single Asian woman in America, for the future, or for anything or, you know, the fact that we don't have a support system—is there.
Yeah. Let me, sort of, ask you a related question, and this is, it's a little personal, so if, if you say you do not want to address it, that's fine, but just delving into this idea a little more. Do you feel—? I mean, coming from a very patriarchal, male-dominated society, like India, Bangladesh or Pakistan, do you feel that being in this culture has changed your expectation of relationships between men and women?
Tremendously! But not totally to the point of equality. I—, a lot of my
American friends find me ext-, not extremely, pretty liberated— even by
Could you give an example?
Example, like—. For example, I have a—. Oh, this a sergeant, who works
at the place that I work at and, we make conversation, and he says well,
what would you do—? I said, well, if my husband goes out so many hours a
day and with his friends, then he shouldn't mind if I also go out with
my friends so many hours as long as I know, he knows where he goes. If I
can cook and clean after I come back from work, then I expect my
husband—regardless whether he's American or Indian, or Bangladeshi—to
come and help me with the same, and, and, and then—, because, you know,
otherwise it gets too much for one single person. Then he, then that
person—maybe because he was in his forties, or late forties—he says
you're very liberated, you know, even by American standards. A southern
girl from these parts wouldn't—, say that, or expect that. I said, I
said I don't believe that. Anybody educated, or anybody who has some
feeling of independence already established within their personality,
would expect that, regardless of where you—, he or she is from. And—,
patriarchal family is fine, but I guess it's the feeling of insecurity
and being used to a patriarchal society, I still assume that it's the
male's—which I don't see in America all the time—to look after the
family or household, because that's the role that had always been
playing from the very beginning. Even from—, pre-historic times. The men
went out and hunted and brought the food home, and the women did the
nurturing and the cooking, or whatever, grinding—. If you see those
roles, those roles haven't really changed and I, hundred percent do not
believe that, you know, that, it's
It's not something you would opt for, but if—.
But if it happens, I would probably do my best to rear the child the best, but I could never even visualize myself as a single mother.
Out of choice.
Out of choice! Exactly.
Okay, let's see. So, this stuff doesn't apply to you, because you don't
have children, so—.
Right.
But is that something you ever think about? I mean, now that you have been here eight years, I mean, I, I don't even know if you ever plan on having a family but, if you do, is, is that, is that something you think you think about in the future?
All the time.
Bringing kids up—
All the time.
In a culture that's different from what you grew up in?
I've always wanted to have a child ever since I was sixteen—.
I'm laughing, because my mother keeps telling me that's what I should do, because I went to a private boarding school in India, and I went to the same school she went. And so she keeps telling me this, that if you decide to settle in the U.S. and have kids, just send them over to India and I'll send them to the same boarding school.
It's only because I think—, I'm proud of my culture. I mean, there's a lot of things that are very good with America. But I don't feel the need to be a totally different person and entity, and my children coming to a different entity and saying that oh, I don't know. I've never been to India, or I can't speak Hindi or Bengali. It's just part of, I think, it's a part of the human ego to continue as who you are.
Sure.
And I would—. That's what I thought, if I was affluent, send my child to a very good boarding school in India. Of course, my mother has to have access every now and then, because I think a child away from—, any kind of maternal affection for long, doesn't have a healthy upbringing, mentally.
Yeah. Definitely.
But the child will come back for college. When he's strong enough, mentally.
Have the best of both—.
Both worlds—.
Education systems, so to say. Yeah.
I think the Research Triangle Park Area, Raleigh/Durham, Chapel Hill, is
a good area for Asians to come in. Only because some of the best
universities are situated in this area. Duke University, UNC, this,
pioneering research going on in these universities, as well as Research
Triangle Park, and I do believe a lot of Asians will keep on coming to
this area—South Asians—mainly, and a lot of different, people from
different countries of the world, and—, that will make this area
cosmopolitan and which is what Asians or any other continental person
will need to be, to feel—, not out of place. But to be at place—. And
then, this is the area that is
Right—.
I do believe that whatever differences in their countries—and you have
communal differences everywhere—and you see it and read it in the papers
all the time, but I have a feeling, and just observing and just by being
with people, or just the way I feel every time I see a South Asian—,
doesn't matter if he's from Burma or Sri Lanka and, you know, and I can
just tell that he's from South Asia, I feel immediately bonded and I
also feel that the other person bonds because they have a common basis
of, if not language, a common cultural basis, common, food habit basis,
you know, and that, that sort of—those are very strong aspects of a
culture, food and
Yeah.
So I think that makes it a stronger, homogenousness over there as a whole, instead of, er. . . separate pieces of a pie. You know.
Yeah. That's good to know. Is there anything else you want to talk about, I mean, in general, relating to this—. You know, what we've been talking about. This project, or questions, or anything else that strikes you that I haven't covered that you think would be important to, to this interview?
I guess you never you never asked how happy I was here. I guess you'd also ask every Asian, however successful, how deeply satisfied, or completely satisfied, and that peace in, with this inner self and the outside that one is.
Right. Right. Yeah! Didn't ask you that!
And I've, I've had the same question. I mean, it's not a study, it's
just that I like to see how different are people's responses from my
inner feelings and I've asked everyone from someone who owns a grocery
store, to some of the professors of—, Duke University, or from
Bangladesh, and—. Every one of them seems to have some kind of a feeling
that if things were different at home, and if things were, if the social
conditions and the—, situations were different, if there were not so
Oh, absolutely!
Here, it is there, but it's so much in a higher circle that you don't see it because America is a huge country. It's almost like a continent. You don't see it, but it's there. But as long as we don't see it, we see that it's not there—.
Right.
So—, I believe most of them would want to be home, if just situation was reversed. The same conditions existing there, job-wise, constitution-wise, political stability-wise, they'd rather be there.
Yeah, and I guess that's true for almost any immigrant, because—.
That's true.
Yeah.
That's —. Unless you're born and raised here—and I have met those,
too—and, you know, they wouldn't, because you relate to your childhood
experiences, till the age of sixteen or eighteen, the most in your life,
and you keep on relating to them. Because even if when you say, hear an
old song, I mean, sometimes I watch—it's funny, but it's twenty five
years old, but I used to watch M*A*S*H when I was thirteen—it's an
all-American thing. It's an all-American medical team going Korea, but
each time I watch M*A*S*H, every time my heart gives a twist, because it
reminds me poignantly of memories of sitting together, of ideals shared
with
So, how were you folks watching M*A*S*H when you were thirteen in Bangladesh?
It—. They used to come—. I think it came in seventy-four.
Huh! Interesting. I don't know, we had any foreign serials on the Indian National Network. But I think in some ways Bangladesh—.
Pakistan and Bangladesh had them—.
Yeah. Yeah, they opened their market economies much earlier than India did.
Because I used to watch, what-you-may-call-it-, the same series, remember, they used to show—.
Three is Company? No!
Yes. You know, Get Real Smart, ninety nine, you know? Get Smart and all the stuff. When I see that with Danny—he's American—he says, but—. One thing he said that because I'm ten years younger than him, he says, "Oh, you're twelve years old. You are so much younger." Because he saw it twelve years before—.
Right.
But for—. It was the same period that they showed it in Pakistan and
Bangladesh. So, it's funny that a lot of people say, "These things
remind you of home?" I said, why—. They ask why, because of the Korean
paddy fields?
Brick in the Wall?
Brick in the Wall! Poignantly of my teenage-hood when I was a little rebellious—.
Yeah.
Sneaking out to parties at—, in the evening, not telling Dad where we were going.
Yeah.
You know, you were not allowed to go out. At the age of fifteen or sixteen—. And that Pink Floyd was on, and I was hearing that it brought back a flood of memories. So, those things will always be there. So that means, your—, Like, where you grow up in, the first eighteen years matters a whole lot for the rest of your life.
Absolutely!
You'll always reminisce about it, regardless of how happy you are anywhere else.
So, are you happy? You haven't answered that question.
But that's not, what you're saying is that that's not necessarily tied to being here, or being in Bangladesh. Right now.
That's true. And I would define, I guess I would define myself completely complete only when I have a meaningful career and a—, I guess a, conducive home life and being able to step back into my country every two years. I think, right now, that is what I would strive as my ideal situation of living.
Okay. Anything else?
I was very honest. I had to say what I had to say, so I don't know if it would mean anything, but—. When you asked these questions, I had to speak from my heart.
No. That's, that's exactly what we're looking for in this and—, like I said if at any point in this process, you know, if you're uncomfortable about something, we can always scrap it, we can, whatever. But this is going to be anonymous. We are trying to get, really, people's honest reactions, and it's, sort of, trying to bring them together to see themes across different interviews, and you yourself said, that if we were to go out and talk to other South Asians which we're doing and we've done, a lot of the same themes are probably emerging that although people are materially satisfied, there's a certain longing for being back in their own countries. So—. Yeah, I really appreciate the honesty because that's what we're going for, and this will be completely confidential. So—.
Oh, that's wonderful. But, even if it isn't, I still would like to, you know, say what is, what's, but I believe it is what I feel—.
Well, thanks so much.
You're welcome. It was a pleasure.
END OF INTERVIEW