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Excerpt from Oral History Interview with Frances Hogan, May 23, 1991, and June 3, 1991. Interview L-0044. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) See Entire Interview >>

No precedents to follow as first women's athletic director

Hogan felt intimidated as the first director of the women's athletics program at UNC. Without a predecessor in the position, she did not know which policies to follow or what to expect with the other officials.

Citing this Excerpt

Oral History Interview with Frances Hogan, May 23, 1991, and June 3, 1991. Interview L-0044. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

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But when I was appointed director of Intercollegiate Athletics for Women in '74, we were still under the supervision of the Department of Physical Education, and Dr. Carl Blyth was chairman of the department. He knew that I'd always been interested and worked with the highly skilled. He appointed me as director of Intercollegiate Athletics for Women. Chancellor Taylor approved this, and I was given the title of "Director of Intercollegiate Athletics for Women." That was in the summer of '74 and I stayed on campus all summer doing handbooks for the coaching staff, working on the new AIW rules, because all of that was new. There was just a multitude of stuff to do involving HEW's Title Nine. We had a jillion committees studying Title IV. Anyway, the Women's Athletic Program went under the Department of Athletics in October of '74. Homer Rice was Athletic Director at that time, and I was under his supervision. Finally, right after Christmas and into January, I went to my first AIAW convention. I can't remember where it was even held that year. And on the way, I rode with the lady A.D. from Duke. And I said to her, "When do you do your budget?" I'd been working on mine. She said, "Oh, ours has been in." She said, "We have to turn them in by November." This was in January. I kept asking questions. Nobody had given me any direction. I had never met Homer Rice since being appointed Women's A.D. He had never called me in to talk or do anything. So, when I got back from the convention, I wrote Mr. Rice a letter and asked if we could meet. Finally, at the end of January, it was weeks after I wrote, he consented to meet. We met at the Carolina Inn and had lunch. And he brought along Moyer Smith and Bill Cobey, his assistants. I told them the purpose of my meeting was to go over some things that had come up at the AIAW Convention. I asked about the budget and other concerns. Well, as it turned out, our budget did not work the way it did over at Duke. It was still not due. I guess I was the first woman to be appointed to the faculty athletic committee in 1975-77. I would see Homer Rice at the meetings, but there was never any mention of women's athletics at those meetings. The Faculty Athletics Committee were all men and had always been. Finally, after several meetings, Chancellor Taylor asked me a question and I thought I was answering it. He really scared me to death and barked right back, "You're not answering the question," or something. I can't remember. But I was almost trembling. So, when we left that meeting, Homer Rice put his arm around me as we walked out, and he said, "Frances, you're still worrying about the meeting." I said, "I am." I said, "He scared me to death." He said, "Well, when you see the Chancellor looking up at the ceiling and over to the walls, don't say another word." He said, "I've learned since he's done me that way before." Anyway, he tried to make me feel better. And as time went along, you could tell I was being more and more accepted by the committee. The Chancellor and I are now the very best of friends. He and I fish together. If he has a garden problem, he calls. We just couldn't be better friends. When I was inducted into the North Carolina Tennis Hall of Fame, he came over to Greensboro for it. You know, he didn't have to do that. So, I consider him a very good friend. And yet, he scared me to death way back then.