[TAPE 1, SIDE A]

[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]

EDDIE McCOY:

Today's date is [unclear] in what we call Sudan, Virginia [Recorder is turned off and then back on.] I'm James Eddie McCoy. I'm visiting with Mrs. Dorothy Royster Burwell. [text deleted] , Bullock, North Carolina. She lives on the Lake Road, but we call in Sudan Virginia, because she's on the border of North Carolina-Virginia line. And we going to be talking about, Cedar Grove church, and Cedar Grove school. Mrs. Burwell, will you give me your full name?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Dorothy Royster Burwell.

EDDIE McCOY:

Your address?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

[text deleted]

EDDIE McCOY:

The month and date you was born?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

12-1-31.

EDDIE McCOY:

Your present age.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Sixty four.

EDDIE McCOY:

And today's date.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

May the 29th, 1996.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, what area of Granville County did you grow up in when you was a kid? With your mother and father?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, I was raised in Sudan, Virginia. Mecklenburg County. And after graduating from West End high school, I moved to Granville County, North Carolina.

EDDIE McCOY:

West End high school, it's over in the Sudan area?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, that's in Clarksville.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, and then, your parents moved over here, or, was they born over here?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, they was born in Granville County, but they lived, you know, moved from Granville County to Mecklenburg County.

EDDIE McCOY:

Let's take your father first. Where did he come from?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, he was born in Granville County.

EDDIE McCOY:

What part, what area?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, around Bullocks area.

EDDIE McCOY:

What was his name?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

James B. Royster, Sr.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, was he related to Mr. Doc Royster?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes, distant relatives.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, did he have brothers and sisters?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

Where they all born in Bullock?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, yes, they all was born in Granville County.

EDDIE McCOY:

What about his mother and father?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, his father, he was born in Granville County also.

EDDIE McCOY:

What was his father's name?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Charlie Royster.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, what was his fathers' name?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

His father's name was Willie Royster.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, did they, was they share-cropping or what? Was his father a sharecropper?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

He was uh, share-cropping, yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did he live on somebody's farm?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, yes. He live on, I guess relatives or—

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, his family. Always had land?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh, yea.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, what church did he come up in?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, I think, I don't know, really what church, remember, 'cause don't any of his grandkids remember him, he, except the oldest ones.

EDDIE McCOY:

You never seen him?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Never seen him.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, how many brothers and sisters did he have?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

He had about four brothers and a couple sisters, and Mr. Charlie Royster in Bullock was his half brother. Charlie Royster, he owned a store in Bullock. And his wife was Catherine Royster, she taught school at—

EDDIE McCOY:

Is Charlie Royster white or black?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

He's white.

EDDIE McCOY:

So your father's grandfather, was raised by white people?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, he was white.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

We came from a white Royster family.

EDDIE McCOY:

You did?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, uh, so your father was James B. Royster?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

And his father was—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Willis Royster, which was Charlie Royster's brother.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so Willy Royster was half brother to Charlie Royster. And Charlie Royster is white?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Wife was Mrs. Catherine Royster, I guess you should know her. She—

EDDIE McCOY:

Yea, I know that part, they related to the Snowall family?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes. Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so could your father read and write?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No.

EDDIE McCOY:

He couldn't read and write?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, he couldn't.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's a coincidence he couldn't read and write, and had a background of white family.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I know.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so, did you ever see any of his brothers and sisters?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

My father?

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh huh.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, yea. I knew most of those.

EDDIE McCOY:

Are they living now?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, all dead.

EDDIE McCOY:

What was their names?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Okay, Willis Royster, Sam Royster, Herbert Royster, Thomas Royster, Gable Royster, and Nanny Royster, Anne Royster—

EDDIE McCOY:

Nanny?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh. And Agnes Royster, and Mattie Royster.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's eight.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay. Did any of them, did you see all of them?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did they live up north, or did they—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, yes, they uh, some of them lived up north, only one of them lived down in the county all the time and that was Anne Royster, all the rest was up north, and they lately after they retired, went, came down.

EDDIE McCOY:

And where did they make their homes?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, down here.

EDDIE McCOY:

In Virginia or North Carolina?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

North Carolina.

EDDIE McCOY:

Do they have, still have children? Do you have nieces and nephews still live here, or any of these children, your father and brothers and sisters?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, yes. Some of them still have children.

EDDIE McCOY:

So, your father never was hired out or anything, 'cause he worked for his own family?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, yes, he uh, was went to Maryland to the uh, what is it, Sparce Point something, whatever. I think that's something like a—

EDDIE McCOY:

Was that before y'all was born?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, before he was married, Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, where did your mother come from?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, she came from Virginia.

EDDIE McCOY:

You have an idea what part?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, her father used to live in Keysville, Virginia.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

He farmed up there—

EDDIE McCOY:

What was your mothers name?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Effie Henderson.

EDDIE McCOY:

And when she got married, she was Effie Henderson Royster?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes. Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did she have brothers and sisters?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Only, uh, three sisters.

EDDIE McCOY:

Can you name them?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes. Lucy, Maddie, and Annie.

EDDIE McCOY:

Any of them living now?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

All dead.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, did they live in Virginia or did they go north?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, two of them live in Virginia, and that was Annie, she lived in Keysville, Virginia, and Maddie, she live in Norfolk, Virginia.

EDDIE McCOY:

And where did the other one—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Lucy?

EDDIE McCOY:

Lucy.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

She lived over in Granville County, 'cause see my mother married two brothers.

EDDIE McCOY:

You married James Royster.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

And your

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Lucy married Sammy Royster.

EDDIE McCOY:

Samuel.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

But the married two—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Two brothers.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, which one got married first?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Sammy.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, and then your brother, your mother and Effie got married second.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, I don't know, I can't—

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay. Did uh, how many children did your mother have? Uh, how many sisters and brothers of y'all?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

It was eight of us.

EDDIE McCOY:

Name the boys first.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Okay, uh. Alexander, Vane, James Jr., and Freddie. Okay, Eleanor, Dorothy, and Julia.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now. Which one, how many of y'all finished high school? [unclear] you was Dorothy?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, you was the only one that finished high school?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, did the rest of them leave, Virginia, go away or what?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes. Uh, they went different places, working. But, my oldest sister, she uh, when she came back from the north, she live in Virginia.

EDDIE McCOY:

Where 'bouts?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, Sudan, Virginia.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, uh, what about the brothers, did they stay around here and farm or sharecrop or what did they do?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Only two of them stayed around, close around home there, other two, one of them lived in Keysville Virginia, and well, both of them live Keysville Virginia, but one, he went away to Pennsylvania and worked in the steel mill.

EDDIE McCOY:

All of them, all your sisters and brothers still living? Except one?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I don't have but one sister living, and one brother.

EDDIE McCOY:

Which, which sister is living?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Julia. And Vane.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, uh, and what, Vane live next door?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, Julia.

EDDIE McCOY:

Julia live next door?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

And where do Vane live?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Vane live other side of Keysville, Virginia.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, uh, who has the most children?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Huh?

EDDIE McCOY:

Which one of y'all has the most children?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I have the most.

EDDIE McCOY:

How many you have?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Five. He had five but he lost one.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, Mrs. Royster, uh, what I'm interested in, and what we are working on, and my project is what come first, the church or the school. Or the family, and what, what you going to be working with me, is we going to be trying to work on Cedar Grove school. And Cedar Grove Church. And we going to be working together, trying to get the history of this community and trying to put it together, you and I, and we'll, other relatives in the community. And so today, what we going to do is kind of a rough draft on trying to put this community together because it was divided. And it was, it was. You will have to explain to me is go back, is, if you possibly can and tell me about

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Page 9

what happened about the core engineers and tell us about the water and what happened in this community, to divide the community.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, water came up in the area, and the peoples had to sell out, you know the land.

EDDIE McCOY:

What was the reason, did they need water here? This reservoir or was it a, it was just a area where it was a lot of water and low land?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh, that's what it was, a lot of low land in that area.

EDDIE McCOY:

And the water, just a lot of water just stayed all the time?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, so, uh, it came in, you know.

EDDIE McCOY:

The state of Virginia came in here?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh, and put the dam.

EDDIE McCOY:

Put the dam in here?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, uh, what kind of, what happened, tell me the story, how did you get a warning or what did they say or how did they do it, just tell me what you can remember.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, it's something that the government came about, they just, you know, they, they put this down over there and bordered, and for it to be on a level control they had to come down and put another dam, which it call—

EDDIE McCOY:

Kerr Lake?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Kerr Lake dam. Because the other one couldn't keep the water down. So, we had to do something to control the—

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, okay, I didn't, okay. I was mixed up. So you say, started, the idea was to do one dam?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

But when they did that dam, the wells and whatever was too much water?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

And so they have to have a area where it would overflow? A reservoir?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes, Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

And so when they came in here and cut the reservoir out, you saying they took about a thousand acres, or two or three thousand acres of—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yeah 'bout a thousand acres of land from the people. And it was [unclear] they paid them for it, but you know.

EDDIE McCOY:

How much time did they give you? Did they give you like two or three years or you just?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I guess 'bout a year of so.

EDDIE McCOY:

Like they did, okay. Okay. And they came in and survey, and said we going, we need a more dam and more water.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh. That's right, and they taken so many acres, some places they took the whole farm of peoples, you know like that down—

EDDIE McCOY:

Now did they do Buffalo Junction first or was—part of a reservoir?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, it's part, it's part of it.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was that there before they did the, the Sudan part?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Sudan was the first. I would say.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so you are saying it took about three or four, five thousand acres of Sudan?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Right.

EDDIE McCOY:

And then, after they got that part, what they needed more water or didn't work? What did you hear?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, they come around and needed more land, so they had to get, you know, more land from people.

EDDIE McCOY:

And so then it went to Buffalo Junction?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Probably that's what happened, it went up there.

EDDIE McCOY:

And 'bout five or six thousand acres of land?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

And then after they got up there, why did it have to go to Kerr, I know they did it backwards. After they did the Buffalo Junction part, they had the, what, what was the first part?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, Bo's Island dam. And that cover a whole lot of territory back in there, over, over in uh [unclear] area, all down there they have large bodies of water.

EDDIE McCOY:

And then they came to Sudan?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

And then they went up to Buffalo Junction?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Buffalo Junction.

EDDIE McCOY:

And then they needed an outlet and another reservoir?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

And then they went to Kerr Lake?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Kerr Lake.

EDDIE McCOY:

In North Carolina.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Right.

EDDIE McCOY:

And when they did that lake, they took probably ten thousand acres of land or more.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, it was acres and acres.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

And now they talking about they going to have to shut the, when, whenever the pump give out down here, that's it. You know.

EDDIE McCOY:

What do you mean? They going to—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

You see, it operate by a pump—

EDDIE McCOY:

I been over there.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh. Well, I saw something in the paper about it, I guess you seen in, Oxford paper.

EDDIE McCOY:

I know Virginia wanted to buy some water from here. But what you saying is when they let the flood gates out, they let the water down to Kerr Lake, and going down to Virginia, and you saying that they going to have to build another flood?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

They going to have to do something because they pump that they have, now that pump was put in there way years ago, and they can't even replace it.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, okay.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

And whenever it, well, so far it's doing all right now, but whenever it go out, that's the ballgame, because they are not getting enough money to purchase another one.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

See, when the mine was running, operating. That was a help. They had some help, you know, they have a mine.

EDDIE McCOY:

How was the tungsten mine helping them? They were getting money?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

And lose water from it.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay they were buying water?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh, and sharing you know, helping the electric expense. Which that costs up in the thousands per year. So the paper said.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so now they, they are trying now, trying to get resources.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh, just hope it lasts as long as it will last. So—

EDDIE McCOY:

Tell, what, did the people know what the land was worth, or they just gave them what the thought?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

They gave them what the thought it was worth.

EDDIE McCOY:

And they gave you so many days, so many months to move?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

They say the water going to be up in such a length of time, and if you wasn't out at that time, the water just came over. But everybody, you know.

EDDIE McCOY:

How many stores was, did you go to Sudan when you was a kid?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, yea.

EDDIE McCOY:

How many stores was there, was there like, Snowball —?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

'bout like Snowballl. 'Cause it had, it had deport there, they have—

EDDIE McCOY:

A post office.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

A post office. A. C. Winbush had a store. Walker had a store there, and they used to be another man there had a store where the depot was. His name was Mr. Wright.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, you had a depot, a post office—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

And the train, the passing train came through there.

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah, yeah, I know, I heard about that. Yeah. Okay, now, and then your church then, Cedar Grove had grave, the graveyard was further from the church, was way off from the church?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so they came in there, and they took part of y'all's graveyard, part of the acres of the church land?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did they give you anything, or you don't know?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, I guess they gave the church something for it.

EDDIE McCOY:

And they said they going to move the bodies?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yeah, they did. 'Cause it's some bodies back over there. Uh, on my aunt's place.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now your aunt was named what?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, Susie. Did I put her name down?

EDDIE McCOY:

Huh uh. Okay, I spelled it the way I think I can spell.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Okay.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was she ever married? Was she ever married?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

What was her married name?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's it.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, she married a [unclear] What was her maiden name?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Royster.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's right, that's your sister.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

My daddy's sister.

EDDIE McCOY:

Has children?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No.

EDDIE McCOY:

They still have the same property? Family property?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

The government got it.

EDDIE McCOY:

They government took it? Okay, so they had a cemetery on that land, a family cemetery?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

So how many graves did they say the supposed to move?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I think it was something like three or four. They brought them down and put them at the church.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now, did the family see these moved? I'm going to tell you, if you don't be there when the government move them, from my experience, they really don't move them.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I don't think that the family was there. You know, I don't..

EDDIE McCOY:

I understand what you are saying. Okay, now, what we're, what you're telling me is that, we really don't know how many family grave yards was moved within this whole lake. Until we get a map of engineers to show all the grave yards.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Right.

EDDIE McCOY:

Because you got relatives and there was other grave yards around in the same area.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, was the old school that was in the church in the way or what? Did they tell you?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh no, well see, uh, this school, the first school was a—

EDDIE McCOY:

A log cabin?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

A log cabin. Which they used that for the church, until they, after, after they built, you know, they church they have now.

EDDIE McCOY:

So the church start out in a log cabin?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, at first it was a little bush [unclear] then it went from there to a log cabin.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, and so when it went to the log cabin—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

They used that building for the school.

EDDIE McCOY:

And the church. Okay, so, we are back to where we started, what come first, the church or the school. So both of these came at the same time?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

The church and the school? Now, when you got old enough, did you see, you just, the church that's there now is the one you, you started in, 'cause you had graduated from high school.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Right, and the school is at the same spot that I went to only, the one that I started to that burnt down, in a fire and they built another one right down there.

EDDIE McCOY:

Which one got burnt by fire?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

The first, the first—

EDDIE McCOY:

Not the log cabin?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, the framing.

EDDIE McCOY:

I didn't know this. Okay. Okay, now.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

[unclear] hadn't told you.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's right. Okay, now, where was that school at?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Same place as the one down there.

EDDIE McCOY:

Same place?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay. When that school caught afire, what grade were you in?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, something like second or third.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now did you go back into the church until the built another school?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

You went back to the church?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Went back to the church, that's true.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was it in the winter time or was it in the summer time?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, it was in the summer time, I think.

EDDIE McCOY:

Well, you didn't have no electric lights in that school. Not the first one, did you?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea.

EDDIE McCOY:

You did?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay. And what it took a year before they?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, something about like that, a year.

EDDIE McCOY:

So y'all went to school in the church?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

And then when they built the second one, they built it bigger?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

Went from a one room to a two room?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, it was, it was, the first one was two rooms.

EDDIE McCOY:

It were?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

The frame school.

EDDIE McCOY:

That got burned up was a two room?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yeah, Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, and they went back and built another two room?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, Uh huh. Well, that was a little bit larger, 'cause they had a little, kitchen and what not, closet and things. It was newer update, you know.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay. Where did y'all get your water from?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, had a pump at school?

EDDIE McCOY:

At school?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, did you bring, what did you drink, you bring your own jar or glass or what did you drink after?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, yea. Each child had their own glass.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did you put your name on it, how did you know?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Kept it in your bookbag. They you know got where you could purchase cups, have cups—

EDDIE McCOY:

All of this took place before the dam or after the dam?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That was, let me see, that was before the dam.

EDDIE McCOY:

Mrs. Royster, after the second school was built, where were you living then, what house, were you living where you live now?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I was living, no, I was living in Sudan. Sudan.

EDDIE McCOY:

How far, could you walk over to the school?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

Approximately how many miles was that?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, about a mile and two-tenths something like that.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now we want to let the people know on the tape, that Sudan is under water.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

The government taken it. And they left part of it, and that's why it's hard to describe to me, is where Sudan or how far you walk, because I physically can't see the miles, and we can't do the mileage of it.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now, how many children you think, that lived in Sudan over there where you lived, had to walk, 'bout how many children walked?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, I had some cousins, they lived in North Carolina, and they had to come to Cedar Grove school which was in Sudan, Virginia.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now how many families you think that lived in North Carolina?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Three. Three I know, four!

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, it was four families. Was they all of 'em relatives, could you name them?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, each kid?

EDDIE McCOY:

No, the families? Mothers and fathers.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Okay, uh. Sam and Lucy Royster's kids, Herbert and Philis Royster's kids, James and Maddie Small's kids, and uh, uh, Mr. Luther Evan's kids.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, did they have further to walk than y'all had to walk?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, oh, yea.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did they walk less than three miles to the school?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I would say, about three miles?

EDDIE McCOY:

Did anybody over on fifteen, where, Mr. Clark, that area over in there when you make a left, did any of those kids in that area come over to Sudan school?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, they went to Bullis.

EDDIE McCOY:

They walked from there to Bullis?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

To Bullis, Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

So what you are saying is, from over there to Cedar Grove to Bullock is about the same amount of miles?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well you know the big house up on the bridge? Up there on the left, Red Hill?

EDDIE McCOY:

Huh hu.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

The big house—

EDDIE McCOY:

I seen a sign said Red Hill.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Okay the bridge, like you are coming down 39, that big bridge, it's a huge big house up on there with pasture. Well my uncle used to live there, and his kids used to have to walk from up there down to the Cedar Grove school.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now what did that Red Hill mean? That was the name of that farm?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh, that was the name of that plantation, Red Hill Plantation. They once had slaves there, they tell me. That's a three story house.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay. I got the history on Red Hill, but you know I had it in the wrong place.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Really?

EDDIE McCOY:

Yes. I thought Red Hill, a plantation, and the history of Red Hill, I thought it was up in Grassy Creek. But now I, it didn't say that, but I took for granted it was at Grassy Creek.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's the oldest, oldest house around anywhere close in this area, right up there, but they restored it.

EDDIE McCOY:

I could look at the—Okay.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

It's a three story house.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, I seen the books in the library.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

And there's another over where my uncle used to live over there. Uh, go down the old Sudan highway, and turn right and go down that road just as you cross the railroad cross, cross the next road, and that's an old house over there. That, the name of that place was, Coleman, Coleman Farm.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now. This is very confusing. Now, the old Sudan Road, explain the old Sudan Road to me. I know it's funny with us sitting here, 'cause it's water over all of it, now if we come down the old Sudan road, and when it end, how could we get to over here to the church or what happened?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Okay, uh, before the road came, uh, the water came up, okay, all right, see it was up at the end of 39, it was the old highway, old highway 15 went on through Sudan, bear to the right, and the new one was to the left. See, old, old highway 15 went on into Sudan.

EDDIE McCOY:

Old 15 went into Sudan, where you went into town?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh, into Clarksville.

EDDIE McCOY:

It went to Su, okay, so, we don't go to Clarksville the way we go now?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No.

EDDIE McCOY:

We was going the—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Old way.

EDDIE McCOY:

So, Okay, so we had to come through a little town.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Okay.

EDDIE McCOY:

Called Sudan.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

And then go to Clarksville?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Then go to Clarksville, okay. Well, when you got to Sudan, there was a, a road leading back this way.

EDDIE McCOY:

Like a crossroad or a fall?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, Uh huh, just like that old, well, you know, part of that is there now. That one that go down like you are coming to go to church.

EDDIE McCOY:

Right.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, there was the highway you come to go to church. On around to our hill, on into Townsville.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so what you are telling me is that, when they brought the water in here, that made everybody lives in Sudan and in Virginia had to come into North Carolina to go home?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh, that's true.

EDDIE McCOY:

But before then, you didn't have to do it?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

You didn't have to do it, that's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

So now, that what made everything here complicated?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Complicated. Right.

EDDIE McCOY:

You cut off your ties, and half of your church members, your family went to Virginia, one half came this way?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

This way, right. And from this way, it was just a wagon road.

EDDIE McCOY:

What is, you know, what I talk to people about, and what people don't understand and young people, I always talk to older people about, where did black people get so much sacrifice and strength from? That was hardship on people.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

It was.

EDDIE McCOY:

They worked all their life for that little piece of land.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

And here comes somebody tell them they got to go.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, and too, you know they had a, what's a situation that happened even before this water came. Because, the Indians owned a lot of land up in the area of Virginia and Carolina, and the white man came and ran them away, 'cause it's Indian, it's Indian graves uh, back, back down toward our hill down in that area.

EDDIE McCOY:

They still down there now?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I don't know, probably they took 'em up, I'll bet they took 'em up, you know.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so the Indian was over in the Buffalo Junction area?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes, and around in Clarksville, and I, I count up like probably Sudan, they had Indians there, I just tell people I was raised in a little Indian Village. [Laughter] You know.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so when you, when your kids was going to school, you really thought that the word Sudan was 'cause they called Indians Sudan?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well I used to tell them that because it was such an odd name, you know, and I couldn't figure it out, I only, you know, ran across something

---

Page 23

about Sudan Virginia, Sudan over in Africa when I went to high school, you know, because elementary school didn't have—

EDDIE McCOY:

And you just brushed it aside?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, Uh huh, just brushed it aside.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, take it from Africa, I'm not too familiar with that.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now here come Eddie McCoy.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

I'm back here.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Back here picking up that Africa sound again.

EDDIE McCOY:

We going to get Sudan straight this time..

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Okay, okay, okay. Hopefully.

EDDIE McCOY:

Hope we get them straight this time. We going to work on it.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea.

EDDIE McCOY:

So, you know, I talk to people. Do you think white people really know how hard black people had when you own a little piece of land that was yours, and then somebody give you some money and you can't read and write, and you got to move with four or five children, it's impossible for you to buy another piece of land.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's true, and you know, in, to me, a lot of them old peoples, they were, they didn't live long after— 'cause when you work hard and accumulate something, and then somebody come along and take it, it's just like cutting off part of your life. You know?

EDDIE McCOY:

'Cause see, you didn't have much.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Didn't have much, that's true.

EDDIE McCOY:

And what little bit you had?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Enough to make a living. And some of the people had, I had a cousin, he had something like eighteen children down there in Sudan. You know? And for him have to leave—

EDDIE McCOY:

That destroyed the whole family.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I tell you.

EDDIE McCOY:

But then you had white people that you knew down there that was just as bad as y'all.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Just as bad, that's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

It destroyed them.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

'Cause uh, like when you go out here and hit 15 going to Clarksville, the second house on the left, this guy live up there, his name is James Wilson, he was born in Sudan, Virginia, too. And, his daddy, he was a farmer, 'cause he and him used to work at the same plane, and I was telling him that I was born in Sudan, Virginia, and some of the ladies that he know [unclear] I said well next time Jimmy Wilson come through here, I'm going to let him tell you where he was born at. So, one night I said, Jimmy come here a minute, I said tell these people where you was born at. He said I was born in Sudan, Virginia. I said, oh, you got it now. Boy you tell somebody you was born in Sudan, Virginia, that place didn't even ever exist. But it did. And after the water, after water took over, highway 15 over there, you know where Travis got these junk cars, well, the next house up from there was a store, and they had a sign over there over on highway 15 saying new Sudan Virginia. Because that store was moved, people that ran that store in old Sudan had to move over their side, and so they named it New Sudan, Virginia. Out there where Travis got those junk cars, the house up above there, the Paris' ran that store, so they start a new store there, they had one in Sudan, and they call that Sudan, Virginia over there, afterwards, New Sudan. And now, Sudan was on the map, if you can find uh, an old highway map, isn't a road map, Sudan was on it.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, you know, we are talking about, this history is not very old, for it to get lost, for what happened to it.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Right.

EDDIE McCOY:

It was destroyed.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Right. Because now, the water came in here around '51 or '52.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's right. That's right. That's right.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

So that's when everything was wrapped up, you know went under the water.

EDDIE McCOY:

But what I can't understand is, how did the libraries, how did the clerk of court, how [unclear] all of those people, erase Sudan off the map?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Don't have it on the map.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now tell me about the train track, it's under water.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

And when the water get low, you can see the train track?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

You can see the train track.

EDDIE McCOY:

What happened to the train? When they tore up Sudan?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, they cut it out, they had to, tore the railroad track, you know, built a new one.

EDDIE McCOY:

What happened to the mail?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

The mail?

EDDIE McCOY:

To your own mail? When everybody got up-rooted.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Clarksville. And then the mail man had to bring it out to us.

EDDIE McCOY:

But you live in North Carolina, did you get your mail, first y'all had to get y'all mail from Virginia, and Virginia.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, we live on Rte 1. Clarksville, Virginia. In the fifties, this was Rte. 1 Clarksville, Virginia. We live in North Carolina.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's what I want you to say to me.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Part of Townsville was too.

EDDIE McCOY:

They had you in Virginia, and you was living in North Carolina. You got your mail from Virginia, you got your telephone, everything came from Virginia?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's right, if I go to Oxford, to transact some business and present my driver's license and address on one thing, it used to be a confliction but then, they realized that, you know..

EDDIE McCOY:

But it stayed like this for a long time.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

A long time, yes it did. I had, a North Carolina driver's license and a Virginia address. Rte. 1 Clarksville. We really was messed up.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now we going back to people that couldn't read and write, again. You know what hardships that brought on those people?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, it was rough.

EDDIE McCOY:

Those people cried.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I know, 'cause I had two, my two younger brothers. I don't know what happened, but neither one of them could read and write.

EDDIE McCOY:

How did, they should have been the ones went the furthest in school.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's right. And my older, oldest sister and older brother, they could, you know, read and write some.

EDDIE McCOY:

So, when they broke up this school in this community, your brothers and sisters, what happened, they got losted, they got, what happened to them?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

When they broke up the school?

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah, and—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well—

EDDIE McCOY:

Was they, was they upset because they went to church with children in Virginia, and had to go travel, the closest school they had to go to was back to Bullock then.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Behind you, am I right?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Right. Right.

EDDIE McCOY:

Wasn't no bus.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

All of them was older than I was, see I am the second youngest.

EDDIE McCOY:

This happened to a lot of families.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's right. Because my sister, she went to uh, Snowball school. To Snowball high school, but I didn't go out, I graduated from Clarksville, West End high school.

EDDIE McCOY:

What did you explain to people when you graduate, the water was in here then, wasn't it, or hadn't got here?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, hadn't got here.

EDDIE McCOY:

Hadn't gotten here then.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, I was just lucky.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now, how did you get here, at this spot? Y'all family, what—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, well my mother and father bought this track of land.

EDDIE McCOY:

They, was they, okay; your parents was living in Sudan, they had their own land then.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, Huh uh. They was living on somebody else's land.

EDDIE McCOY:

Sharecropping?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Sharecropping. Uh huh. Farming for the [unclear]

EDDIE McCOY:

And they bought this piece of land?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, how many acres was in it?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Uh, 'bout seventy some acres in uh—

EDDIE McCOY:

Did they sell it to all the families or just your family, split up between your uncles, aunts, how was it?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, Huh uh, my mother and father bought this track.

EDDIE McCOY:

There was seventy some acres?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yea, 'bout seventy some acres, the government took part of this in the back.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was this part of Mr. Marrer's land or this was—?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

No, this was, my mother and father bought this from Alan C. Winbush, and he lived in Sudan, Virginia.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now I'm mixed up again. Sudan, was still there when you bought this land?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yeah, oh yes it was there.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, did he buy it because he knew they had to move, or he had bought it before y'all, was he buying it before the government say they going to take—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, yeah, he bought, they bought it before we had the uh, you know, I mean the water took Sudan—

EDDIE McCOY:

But you had moved here?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

He was buying the land, and y'all was living in Sudan.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Moved here I think in '51 or, well I think '52.

EDDIE McCOY:

Well, he had to then. Y'all, he had put you out there, the government had come in—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

That's right. They government was taking—

EDDIE McCOY:

But he was smart enough to be buying a piece of land, and he had seventy acres—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Right, 'bout sixty or seventy acres.

EDDIE McCOY:

And the—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, the government took a lot of it in the back.

EDDIE McCOY:

The water took some more of your land then?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Took my daddy's, some of my mother's and father's land.

EDDIE McCOY:

You know—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

So, all three of his houses is, you know, this is my mother's home house, and the other two houses, a son and daughter's house. And they built those. And they still have a little land in the back.

EDDIE McCOY:

It going to take you and I to get this stuff sorted out, you know that?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I know, it's—

EDDIE McCOY:

Because your parents buying land, and then they come up and had to move, because the government said we going to come and take it for water. And then when they move on this piece, the government come back again, and said we going to take some more, for water again.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

They was taking all the land, very few people down that way had land left.

EDDIE McCOY:

How did they people that survived that stayed in Virginia, it was just that piece, just didn't have a flood, where the church was at?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Yeah, Uh huh, just got lucky. But a lot of places, the water actually did come up further than it was supposed to. If you go down to Townsville, if you little place by the bridge, well, so far it had been lucky for the last couple of years, but that bridge was [unclear] out down there. Water come over, 'cause one, one man ran over in the lake down there, water came up one night. That bridge down there flooded, they mis-estimate the height of that bridge.

EDDIE McCOY:

When they was building it.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

And it used to be worse than it is now. Every time it came, rained two or three days at a time, that bridge would go out.

EDDIE McCOY:

You all have had a lot of hardships in this area?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, yeah, a lot of hardships, I tell you, whenever, whenever a person get a home, be well satisfied, think they, you know, then here come the government going to move you out, that's wrong.

EDDIE McCOY:

How many children you have at home with you?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

I have two at home with me.

EDDIE McCOY:

Where are the rest of your children living?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, my oldest son live in Snowball, and my other son, he lives in Maryland, one live in Henderson.

EDDIE McCOY:

Have you ever, did your father talk about being an outcast from a white family, or being a bastard child or whatever, from just looking at what we've been talking about, and—

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, his mother, she was part Indian, so, you know. My family just a duration mixery, you know, all together.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did he know his mother?

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Oh, yes, Uh huh. His mother and father, they married, and they, well, he died uh before any of the, I think about four grand kids was born when he died. He was uh, way on up in his eighties when he died.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, well, uh, why did he, the Roysters, you know, he had to leave that farm, he was part of that child. Of Catherine and what, Charles, Charlie Royster.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Well, look, Charlie Royster's daughter used to work there in that bank at the uh, light in Oxford.

EDDIE McCOY:

It's uh, Janet Royster.

DOROTHY ROYSTER BURWELL:

Janet, Uh huh.