[TAPE 1, SIDE A]

[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]

EDDIE McCOY:

The time is 3:15, the address is 401 McClenaham Street, I will be interviewing Mrs. Annie Bell Cheatham this afternoon. Today is March the 21st 1995, I would like for you to tell me your address and you name. Mrs. Cheatham, I would like for you to tell me your name and your address.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Annie Bell Williams.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's your maiden name?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes, it is.

EDDIE McCOY:

All right, now what's your married name?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Annie Bell Cheatham.

EDDIE McCOY:

Annie Bell Cheatham. What's your address here, McClenahan Street?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

401 McClenahan Street, Oxford.

EDDIE McCOY:

And what year, month, year your birthday and month?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

My birthday was 1911.

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah, 1911, February?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

February the 22nd.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so you are 85?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I'm 85 years old.

EDDIE McCOY:

When you was a kid growing up, what community did you grow up in?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh, I growed up in, we called it the flat woods. I growed up in the flat woods.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh huh, and were you, your parents, were y'all born down there, your family came from down there?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes, my family came from the flat woods.

EDDIE McCOY:

Were your father a sharecropper or . . .?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes, he was.

EDDIE McCOY:

On what, whose, whose farm was he a sharecropper on?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

William Crews.

EDDIE McCOY:

William Crews?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh-huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Tell me something about Mr. Crews.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Mr. Crews was a white man, and he was a very nice man, and we lived there with him about twelve years.

EDDIE McCOY:

And you thought he was a fair man?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He was, and he was a farmer, of course he was.

EDDIE McCOY:

What you got tired of, or your children, your sister and brother got too old, for your parents to sharecrop or what happened?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Well, we decided to come out the flat woods and live in the flat woods, and my father decided he wanted to get out from there, and come out, you know, and so we moved up here on the Raleigh Road, and 'bout five miles from Oxford.

EDDIE McCOY:

How far, how long did you live there, before you went to Bell Town?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That was all Bell Town, that was Bell Town to us.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, okay, okay, but that's Bell Town Community?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now uh, what year, do you have an idea what year y'all moved to Bell Town?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I don't know.

EDDIE McCOY:

What did your father do after y'all moved?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Well, we farmed, we still farmed.

EDDIE McCOY:

For who, what was that farm, you still sharecropping or what?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We still sharecropping.

EDDIE McCOY:

For who?. . . . That's ok, uh, how many children did you have, Mrs. Cheatham?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Twelve.

EDDIE McCOY:

You had twelve children?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Twelve children.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, how many living now?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

You mean how many did I have?

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh-huh.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I may have told you wrong on that one. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

How many did you have?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I had uh, twelve children, yes I did, twelve children.

EDDIE McCOY:

How many boys did you have?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Let me see now. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Name them.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Alec Williams, Roy Williams, Willie Williams, Johnny Williams, James Williams, Eric Williams, Benny Williams.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now the girls.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Nancy Williams, Betsy Williams, Ester Williams. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

She was a Williams before she married a Cooper, 'cause she was your daughter.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, ..

EDDIE McCOY:

Ester, was she the baby?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, she was the baby.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, that's okay, now.. were, what, were your, were your kids, were your brothers any move with your father when y'all moved to Bell Town?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Oh, no, all us moved from over there. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, you was married?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No.

EDDIE McCOY:

You wasn't married when you moved?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

At Mr. Crews farm?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes, any of us moved from the backwoods, the family, the whole family moved.

EDDIE McCOY:

Y'all moved as a family?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes, right up here on Raleigh road.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Up here next to Will Kern, that was our farm right there.

EDDIE McCOY:

Will Kern?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Will Kern, Will Kern farm.

EDDIE McCOY:

Tell me about, tell me something about Mr. Will.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Mr. Will Kern, he was a nice man, nice to work with, and he tried to do all he could to help us, but he was poor too.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh huh, he didn't have much, Uh-huh. Everybody was struggling.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right, that's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

But y'all were family?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, that's right we was a family folks.

EDDIE McCOY:

Don't matter what color y'all was, all of y'all was family?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

Well, that was nice, that mean a lot if somebody treat you right.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

And you know, if you fair, and he treat you nice. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He was, he was.

EDDIE McCOY:

And so y'all sharecropped there?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We sharecropped, in his garden, what they had was ours.

EDDIE McCOY:

That was nice.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I been to that garden a many a day and got something.

EDDIE McCOY:

And you didn't have to eat out on the porch or nothing?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Oh no. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

If they was there, they didn't. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Oh, no siree

EDDIE McCOY:

So, y'all stayed at Mr. Will Kern's, just guess, about how many years y'all stayed with him?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I would say twelve years..

EDDIE McCOY:

You stayed with him about twelve years?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, when did you get married, was it after you moved to Mr. Will Kern?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

Or was it when you was down at blackground in the flatwoods?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, I was just a child in the flatwoods. I don't know when I got married. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, did your brothers and sisters, how many brothers and sisters was it with y'all? How many sisters did you have and how many brothers did you have?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I had four sisters and five brothers.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did they, how far did they go in school?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Some way up in the ninth grade.

EDDIE McCOY:

To the ninth grade?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, and some stopped in the eighth grade.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

And they, they uh, Johnny, at that time, when they got old enough, now we didn't have no rules like we got now, they had to get up there and help clean up the road, you know.

EDDIE McCOY:

'Cause you had like wagon paths?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, I mean, the real road, the real road.

EDDIE McCOY:

I understand.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Like they have convicts now, but at the same time, when you got a certain age, when you got eighteen years old, you had to go up there, and help keep up the road, we, we didn't have that then.

EDDIE McCOY:

The state wasn't taking care of. . . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, no.

EDDIE McCOY:

. . .of the roads.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right, they had to go up there, certain time, yeah, they had to go up there, when they got eighteen, they had to go up there and help keep up that road.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did they get paid, or they just. . . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's just, part of your job.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

You got eighteen years old, you go up there and help keep that road, spots and what not.

EDDIE McCOY:

So uh, which one of your brothers and sisters started leaving Oxford, going away, and left, did any of them leave Oxford, go away for a better job, or went to another state?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh yeah, my brother Lester, he went to Richmond, he left Richmond and went to the Army, that's where he died.

EDDIE McCOY:

He got killed in service?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, was he, who else left?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

My brother Alec William.

EDDIE McCOY:

Where did he go?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He went to the army too.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did it, did he come back to Oxford, or did he live somewhere else?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, he came back here, 'cause he married Ellen.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh-huh.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

After he came back here.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did any of your sisters leave town and go away, up north?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, no.

EDDIE McCOY:

All of them stayed here?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, stayed around, they got married some, but you know, stayed around.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now, I know what the flat woods mean, but I would like for you explain for someone listening to the tape, as say what is a, what you call flatwood. Now, you explain to me what y'all call flatwood.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Well, it was a way back place, it wasn't near no houses or nothing, we live way back, we farmed with Mr. Crews, he was a nice person, he was very nice, nice to us, but we just got tired of living back, and my father decided he was going to come out, and buy a place out on the road, which he did. And we moved out on the road, on Raleigh road.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now, flat wood, is that, when you live so far back in the woods, like a mile, a mile and a half, you just can't walk out of there as you talk about driving out of there, and, a lot of times y'all probably got a slide hooked to mules up, and y'all came out that way.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Had to get out of there sometimes. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

And that's what the kids need to know what flat wood is. That's what it was.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right

EDDIE McCOY:

The trees wasn't flat, the whole thing was flat, and that's why the call it flatwood.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

'Cause everything was flat.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Everything, everything.

EDDIE McCOY:

And they weren't no way in and weren't no way out but walk out. . . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Walk. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

A bus or something. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right, my daddy used to hook up the wagon, like we come to church, we get, all us get dressed and all get on that wagon, come down the street.

EDDIE McCOY:

And then sometimes the ladies come to your church would bring two pair of shoes.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We did that many times, or bring a rag when we get to church clean my shoes off.

EDDIE McCOY:

And carry two, one to keep, one to don't be going to church muddy, and the one to go into church be clean.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's the truth.

EDDIE McCOY:

Two pair.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

And you come to church, and bring dinner, had to bring own wagon, go to dinner on the wagon, and going to stay over there the night, we won't go back in the flatwoods, going to stay over there in the night, like having revival, some nights we stay over there until my mom bring enough dinner for dinner, for our dinner and then have some snacks to eat and stuff.

EDDIE McCOY:

And y'all stay in the church all night?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, we have a lantern, had two or three lanterns hanging on that wagon.

EDDIE McCOY:

Come on Mrs. Hicks.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

It's the truth [unclear] had lantern, see they need it in the day, but we had heat make them children feel up the lanterns with oil, and hang the lantern on the back of, this is the wagon here, that's the mule up there, hang them lanterns on back here, where you hang it, see that light would shine through here to the mule. That's we way it go.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh huh, and all y'all slept in the back of that wagon?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, we coming homing, we coming home [unclear] ? didn't know nothing til we got home, my dad would drive it.

EDDIE McCOY:

And you talking about two or three hours.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, sure, sure. We did that from Sanford a lot.

EDDIE McCOY:

Had a good time didn't you?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

'Cause everybody had the same. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Everybody had the, it would be wagons just like this, one behind the other.

EDDIE McCOY:

Like a wagon train.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right, coming home, and sometime they would be hollering and singing and going on. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Had a good time, didn't you?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, had a good time, too. Had a good time.

EDDIE McCOY:

What about uh, your minister, uh, did he stay awhile, did you have the same minister would stay a long time with you?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, he would [unclear] ? and came back home on the wagon, rode on the wagon from the church, and our minister, and he would go to our home and spend the night.

EDDIE McCOY:

He would? That was nice.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes, come down that wagon and spend the night, nobody didn't think nothing about it at that time.

EDDIE McCOY:

I understand.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Come and spend the night, next day he. [unclear] and help my daddy, uh, with tobacco, and they just done until time to go to church. Mom be home fixing dinner and everything, and we would get on that wagon, we go on to, and tomorrow night he go to another person's home. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

I understand. Y'all had it tough didn't you?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, but it didn't seem like that. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

I understand.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Everybody was [unclear]

EDDIE McCOY:

So, your brothers and sisters got along with Mr. Kern?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Oh, yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

When y'all worked on his farm?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Oh yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

No problem? He treated everybody the same?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was there other families that lived..

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, there was other families that live on the place too.

EDDIE McCOY:

Name some people that live on that other family, that you go . . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh, Nick Parker lived there.

EDDIE McCOY:

Nick Parker?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Nick Parker.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh yeah.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Moved from down here to Bobbit, Clarence Bobbit.

EDDIE McCOY:

Name somebody else.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh, trying to think. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

You talking about Nick and Willa Parker?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Nick, uh huh, 'cause old man Nick, he's the daddy [unclear]

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, uh, how many people that lived down in the flatwood, you had to walk out of there to blackground school?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, sure we walked through, sure we. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

How many miles was that you think, it's almost back at the church.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

It was, it was back at the church. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah, 'cause the school wasn't far from the church.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

It sure weren't. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

So, you had to walk about three or four miles a day?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, every bit of that, and it get so cold you 'bout freezing, but we would come through here, above where the cemetery, and we come up back of that, so we walked up that railroad, come up the railroad, and walk up that uh, and got up that, the school is back of the cemetery, and you come up this way, and you got to the school of course before you did the church. And we walk from there, we'd be crying and going on, it'd be so cold and everything, but we had to try to make it.

EDDIE McCOY:

And when you got to school, school was half cold. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, we had to gather in the wood, and [unclear] ?, gather in the wood and light it and stuff, and children would be just crying, going to get the fire started.

EDDIE McCOY:

And what about, y'all didn't have no bathroom.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, no, you use a tub, only way to use the bathroom was a tub.

EDDIE McCOY:

And when you was in school, everybody had to go out in the woods on their own away. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's where we had to go, out in the woods.

EDDIE McCOY:

No toilet for nobody.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, no, no, no, you made your own toilet.

EDDIE McCOY:

Who else brought wood to the, other than y'all was cutting it, did anybody bring, did the parents bring wood to keep the school going?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

They would bring a little something sometimes, but see they on other folks farms too, you see, they couldn't just haul a little wood just anytime you know.

EDDIE McCOY:

I understand, right, like if you on, okay, everybody kid that went to your school was sharecroppers, uh, working on halves, so they couldn't bring wood like a person could.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

But, see like, you get through your class, I get through, now we had timber, we, they sent us this time, we go and break down limbs, and we get stuff now for tomorrow, we get our stuff and bring it in and put it down for in the morning. Children would come in there, just crying just so cold, now we had frosts then, we had frosts, weren't no [unclear] , we had frosts, everything just as white, and you get out there, and the children just be crying, 'cause it was frost, it was cold. But we would get that fire going. . .and Mrs. Harris, she drove over from [unclear] ?

EDDIE McCOY:

What was her name, Lucretia Harris?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Lucretia Harris. She drove old horse, just something to get on the road, to get killed by, she got there, and the bigger boys, took that horse and tied it, and they would tie him where he could bite off the limbs, you know, something to eat, or where he could get a little grass. And we toted water..

EDDIE McCOY:

How far did you have to go get the water?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I tell you, we toted water from the school, you know where Alec Hunt used to live? Way on that hill, we toted, well, we come, this school over here now, in these woods, Mr. Hunt's house sitting over yonder, school was sitting way back yonder, . [unclear] we had to take turns and go to that spring, and get water, and we toted to the school. I think, Mrs. Harris, can I go to the spring. Yeah. If you done got through your lesson, you could go.

EDDIE McCOY:

But it always had to be two or three people, wouldn't let nobody, you had to go far, one person couldn't. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right, couldn't bring nothing back.

EDDIE McCOY:

So, everyday you had to have a fresh bucket of water?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Oh yeah, two a day. We get us a bucket full for our lunch, everybody sitting on a bench, bring a bench out to school, all of us sitting on a bench. And some sitting on the ground, eating them peas and cornbread, and potatoes, some of them had sweet potatoes, you know, and maybe you have a little something different, I go out and buy a little piece. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

That was nice, all y'all were family?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Sure we were.

EDDIE McCOY:

'Cause you didn't have nothing.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We didn't have, one have about as much as the other one, nobody have nothing.

EDDIE McCOY:

The school, who built that school, you ever heard who built that school?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, I don't, I don't. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Was it on a white man's land, or a black's had, or the state?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

State, I think, had it. From the [unclear] , like this was the school, the lodge was sitting off like that that, from the school, great big old, that was the lodge.

EDDIE McCOY:

What lodge—Masonic?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, they just moved in from down there, they used to be back in them woods, and the school was sitting here, and the lodge would be sitting back like that from the school.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was that Mr. Kern's property?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, that was back down yonder in the flatwoods then, we was in no man's land then.

EDDIE McCOY:

So uh, what happened when Mrs., when the teacher got sick, who would teach school, or couldn't get. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

You know Ethel Holm?

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh-huh.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Well, she have been down there and taught, in Mrs. Harris' place.

EDDIE McCOY:

And who else?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh, Mrs. Ridley. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Mrs. Chavis Ridley.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, that's who, she would come up there and teach, substitute, you know sometimes, yeah, sure would.

EDDIE McCOY:

So, so when y'all went to get the water, you would be gone about an hour, half an hour.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We made it that long..

EDDIE McCOY:

Huh?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We made it that long. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah, but I'm just saying, it was actually a long way.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

It was a long way, long ways.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now, y'all went to the ninth grade?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

She teach the first grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, ninth grade.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, but McCoy, the grades weren't like it is now.

EDDIE McCOY:

But when she teaching the first grade, what do you all children be doing? Getting your lesson out for when she get to y'all?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right, we had a long, it was a shelf, and great long shelf, long as that, and a whole lot of us, to get to it, we could get to that shelf, and we could work on that shelf. Have our pencil and paper you know, it would come a time of day when she almost time to leave, we had to get on that table, and kind of sketch our lesson out, for the, study tonight for tomorrow.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now, what about lights in the schools?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Had lamp lights.

EDDIE McCOY:

You didn't have no lights at home?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We had lights at home, but we didn't have to electric, we had lanterns and lamps, lamp light.

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah, if you didn't have lights at school, you know you didn't have none at home.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, we had lamps.

EDDIE McCOY:

Huh?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Like them sitting here, I keep mine.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, that's the kind you had?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes sir.

EDDIE McCOY:

At home too?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes sir, that's all we had was lamp lights.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now, if Mr. Kern was nice to y'all, did y'all raise everything, didn't have to go to town for nothing like meat, hogs. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, they raised hogs, and my daddy always aged them. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

You had flour and stuff like that?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, and he had wheat, and have, and when the folks come around to cut wheat, my momma always cooked dinner. You know for, wheat cutters, wheat cutters come today, you gotta fix dinner. So, she stayed then, and fixed a big dinner, for the wheat cutters, they would get to our house about dinner time, and they would eat dinner [unclear]

EDDIE McCOY:

And you'd go from one community to the other?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, yeah, everybody had wheat, they would go around, and you would be know, you had let us know when he at your house. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

And how many people prepare food. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, and you know that he would be at your house tomorrow, and you get ready for him tomorrow to cook dinner and all.

EDDIE McCOY:

Tell me about your father, could he read and write?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, he could, you could understand he didn't know. . .but he could, he could. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

He knew the alphabet..

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, yeah yeah..

EDDIE McCOY:

What about your mother?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

She could. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

She could read and write?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, good missionary.

EDDIE McCOY:

How far you think she went in school?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

She didn't go too far, I know that.

EDDIE McCOY:

Where did she come from, did she come from down in flatwood, or she came from somewhere else?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

She, no, she was a country woman, I know that. I would say she come from, yeah, she did, yeah, 'cause I used to go to her momma's house. She, she, now I say flatwood 'cause it was back, way back, I have been there, and walked with her to her momma's house. She, we had to go down the railroad, like say from Clay's, you had to walk down that railroad, go way on up there, I'd say about a mile, and then we'd turn and went down, to where they lived.

EDDIE McCOY:

Which parents you think that came up in slavery, did your mother's side have any?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, my momma did, 'cause she has made us cry many times telling.

EDDIE McCOY:

Tell me something what she said.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Tell how she come, and we'd get to complaining, and she'd say listen children, said y'all don't know nothing, said then she'd tell, this is what momma did [unclear]

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh yeah? Was it by hisself or he would split the family.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He'd split the family, he said, he would sit and tell us about it.

EDDIE McCOY:

And they sent his children and wife one way, and he never seen his family no more?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, he didn't, and they are not Cheatham's, he told us, he said we are not Cheathams.

EDDIE McCOY:

What did he say his name was?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh, Alans.

EDDIE McCOY:

Alans was his name?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

And they changed his name to Cheatham?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Cheatham. See, that's who they sold him to.

EDDIE McCOY:

Mr. Cheatham?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, he was sold to the Cheathams.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh huh, but he had sense enough to keep his old, he could remember his own old name.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, he could write his name as good as anybody. He could write his name and things.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, he was a Cheatham. That's why we Cheathams.

EDDIE McCOY:

But that's not his family real name?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No

EDDIE McCOY:

They changed his name?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

To Cheatham?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right. He said he stood there and saw him when they sold him, and a whole lot of other people.

EDDIE McCOY:

Where was this at, North Carolina?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, North Carolina.

EDDIE McCOY:

Do you, what farm did he come off, what plantation did he come off of, your husband?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He, he was a Alan, I mean, that's the farm he came off of, he was a, he came off, and they sold him to a Cheatham, sold him to the Alans.

EDDIE McCOY:

Do you know how much they sold him for?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, I don't. He didn't say how much they sold him for, but the women, the white men, they would want the women, 'cause they could cook, and wash, and do all that, he said he would work with them, and the women would have to cook and do, and his foot, great big old thing busted in his foot, where he said he worked. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Frost bitten?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, he said he didn't know nothing about no shoes. He worked, he said he get up soon in the morning, go over there, grubbing them, getting them grubs out of the ground, roots and things, didn't have no breakfast or nothing.

EDDIE McCOY:

Breaking up new ground?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, land too. And he said the women, they would keep the women in the house, 'cause they do the cooking, and doing, and the white men would go with the black women.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh huh, and they didn't have no choice?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, they didn't have no choice, of course they didn't.

EDDIE McCOY:

So, if they wanted to go with a black man's wife, they could go whenever they got ready?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, that's what they did.

EDDIE McCOY:

And nothing could be done about it.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Said you better not say nothing about it, say they will hang him, you wouldn't, you couldn't do nothing.

EDDIE McCOY:

And when they have a hanging, they bring and let all the blacks come and see it.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Right, and he said right up here, bless his heart, he could tell you everything, right up here, where you go up to, up here way you go up to, I say way you go to New Light. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

On Goshen street?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, when you get up there, when you go up there hill, right to your left there where you don't see no houses, he said they hung folks right there.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, that's why they call it lynching hill?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's, that's exactly what he said. He said, he told us many times, he called and carried us up there, he said they used to lynch folks right up there. That's the reason they call it Lynching Hill. That's where they hang, they get you out of your house at night, you better not say anything, they'll kill you.

EDDIE McCOY:

So, some of the white girls, the black women didn't even come back at night, they stayed if they wanted them to stay.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Oh, they didn't have no choice.

EDDIE McCOY:

But, the white women didn't have no choice either.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, no they didn't have no choice.

EDDIE McCOY:

She knew her husband was going with black women.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

She, was right there. Say, you better not say nothing. And he said when they sold, said, he said, he would tell us, sitting around the fire one night, he would tell, and he would just cry so hard. He said the children, girls and things, children didn't want to lose their parents, maybe you say, well, I want her.

EDDIE McCOY:

And they split the family?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

They bid you off, bid you off, he said they bid you off.

EDDIE McCOY:

And split them all up.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes, and send you to that man, when a man was up there, said there was a boy, said well I want that one, and said he was sold, he said he was sold. Better not cry, when you cry, then they would beat you. Lord, he told us so many, we'd cry, used to cry sitting around the fireplace. Crying all, he'd be so pitiful.

EDDIE McCOY:

'Bout how old did he live to get?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Well, he was ninety, ninety, I believe it was ninety four years old.

EDDIE McCOY:

He went through all of that, and lived that long.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Had to go through it to live. I would look at him sometimes, and on Sunday, he go to church though, over there on Harris' grove, he went, he would get on the horse, take his shoes and tie, tie them together, and throw them shoes across that horse.

EDDIE McCOY:

[unclear] he didn't put his shoes on. . . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Then when he get there, he put his shoes on. I have, I have cried so many times for him, and I won't beat it or nothing, but I know that was wrong.

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah, 'cause it split everybody up.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

And it worry you to death.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Lord have mercy.

EDDIE McCOY:

Don't know where your wife, don't know where your children, and won't ever see them no more.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's true, some people didn't never see, didn't never see them [unclear] ? and said they take some of the children and tie them, and lead them on, like it was a cow or something. This is mine. Oh lord.

EDDIE McCOY:

Just tie them, and drag them on.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, child crying, him looking back and wanting to go with momma. Momma crying too, but she couldn't do nothing. Had to have somebody to stay.

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah, if you want to live.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, we have been through something in this world. Not just me and you, but think about the black folks, Lord have mercy, just so pitiful.

EDDIE McCOY:

What, what did he do, was he a carpenter or what was he?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Who?

EDDIE McCOY:

Your bro, Mr. Cheatham, your, your. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, just a farmer, just a straight farmer. He didn't have time to do nothing but farm.

EDDIE McCOY:

He worked out in the field all his life?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He worked, yeah, he worked all the time, he didn't have time to go, do, I worked with Mr. So and so.

EDDIE McCOY:

He ain't never went to school?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No.

EDDIE McCOY:

Didn't know about reading and writing or nothing?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No.

EDDIE McCOY:

But just hard work.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, he could, he could sketch his name, yeah, he could get his name, get his name down, so you could understand him.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did he ever try after people got free, did he ever tell y'all he tried to find his family, or just couldn't.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Or it was just too late?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

It was too late, and he done got old. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Did he know how many brothers and sisters he had?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, he know it, he know it, he know his people.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, he was big enough.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, 'cause he told us, he told us, he said we are not Cheathams, we ain't no Cheathams. And then he would tell of how they sold him, and everything, just a crowd of folks standing around there, waiting for, I said get his nigger, that's what they said, get his nigger, he said they put you up on a great big block, and make you stand on that block, and man [unclear] you off just like you was dogs, you was standing there and looking at momma in front of everybody and you can't say nothing. He said, no, he said we ain't no Cheatham's, we weren't no Cheathams. Said we was Alans

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh huh, he was smart enough to keep his name, wasn't he?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He kept his name.

EDDIE McCOY:

Could your father do carpentry work? Who made barns and did work?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Well, they see see, when he got out from under them, see they would have barn raisings.

EDDIE McCOY:

What that mean, explain that to me.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

They would raise barns, like. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

A group of people would get together and build a barn?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right. They could do it then when they got out from under them, see then they could work together, black folks could work together.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, okay.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

'Cause you couldn't do it while you, in that slave, see, they got their own slaves then, and they go down to different houses, I say Mr. Hayes, they go out one day and raise his barn, get his barn, well maybe next day, maybe Mr. Clyde's day. That's what they were, they could do it then, 'cause they was out from under those white folks.

EDDIE McCOY:

So they knew how to carpentry and do their own work?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

The white man didn't teach them nothing, they didn't need them?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, they just go out there and did what they did.

EDDIE McCOY:

And they built their own houses, everybody, everything. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

One would help the other one, well you see you couldn't do it when you was hooked under them white folks, you did, 'cause all your days belonged to him.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh huh, what about on Sundays, what did he say they did no Sundays in slavery? Did they have [unclear]

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He said, yeah, he said on Sundays, he said the only way you got to church on Sunday, he said they would, he said the way he heard service on Sunday, what he said, he said they would turn a pot down [unclear] , and he said that's the way they got that service, and they have service so they wouldn't, the white folks wouldn't, they was in slavery then, so the white folks wouldn't hear them.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did he ever tell you they carried some slaves to church with them?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, he ain't never said that.

EDDIE McCOY:

They didn't never go to church with him?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, never hear him say about them going to church. But he said they used to turn pots [unclear] and they would get down on their knees, around the pot, and catch the sound, you know.

EDDIE McCOY:

'Cause that keeps it down.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, with all the sound, everybody getting praying, sing on the pot.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

And that noise goes into the pot, and the sound don't go out.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's what he said, he said it was done, I done it a many, he said, Lord, he started crying, he said I did it a many times.

EDDIE McCOY:

Now, was cornbread cake on Sundays? That's what I heard some people say. What kind of bread did they eat?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Momma would cook us batter bread.

EDDIE McCOY:

What is that?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's bread, well, you make it up just like you cooking a cake.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh-huh.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

And we always had chickens, and stuff, you know, 'cause you could raise them yourself. And put that, make that up just like you are cooking a cake. And put in the stove.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh-huh.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

And come out, just look just like a cake.

EDDIE McCOY:

Cake, Uh-huh. But uh, did they have a lot of slaves on that farm?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, he said they did.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was it in Granville County. . . .?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's all you saw was slaves, you see then.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was it in Granville County, or was it another county?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

It must have been another county, I don't think it was in Granville County, I don't reckon it was in Granville. 'Cause he was raised in Vance County.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, okay.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

See, that's his home, Vance County.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, okay, and was Mr., your, your husband born at? Was he born over there, or after they moved the plantation?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Over here, he said, he was born over here. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

In Granville County.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, but he was just a little boy.

EDDIE McCOY:

What farm, was he on the Kern farm then?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, first place I know that, that they lived was over here back of Bell Town, Bell Town, but it was way back, back, he could tell you a lot about Bell Town back over there. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

How did you meet Mr. Cheatham?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Well, we went, we met, we uh, after they got out from under slavery, all the slaves, everybody was out of slavery then, we worked together in tobacco, we helped his family, and they helped this family, that's the way. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

But don't you think it was better back then, with all the families was together working together than the way we doing it now?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Of course, of course. I believe that. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

But you were closer then.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

You were closer. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

And [unclear] go to somebody's house. . . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, you telling the truth, 'cause Mrs. Hayes and them, they were our next door neighbors, if our cow come in first, I had to tell Mrs. Hayes.

EDDIE McCOY:

What was Mrs. Hayes full name?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh, uh, Mary.

EDDIE McCOY:

Mary Hayes?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh-huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I had to carry her, momma sent her eggs, she would have eggs to cook her a pudding, pudding, that's what they called them then. Sugar pudding, Uh-huh.

EDDIE McCOY:

What, how many children did Mrs. Hayes have?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Think she had five, I know she had five.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was they near your children's age?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, [unclear]

EDDIE McCOY:

Alright, who else lived near y'all where y'all borrowed stuff from, and loaned stuffs.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Mrs. Caldwell, and all that bunch down in there.

EDDIE McCOY:

What's her name, what Mrs. Caldwell first name?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Lessy Caldwell.

EDDIE McCOY:

Lessy Collin or. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Caldwell. . .All of us lived down there, and the Crewss, uh sent it down in there.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh huh, it's hard to think about it, isn't it?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, I don't think it about it no more, I get on it sometimes, just get it on my mind. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Alright now, after you and Mr. Cheatham got married, where was y'all living at?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Living at Clay.

EDDIE McCOY:

You was down at Clay Station?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Where you turn, you know, to go into the church?

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh-huh. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

You know the little house was sitting there. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh-huh. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's where we went to. They were living there when we got married until we moved in with them.

EDDIE McCOY:

But Belton Creek Church wasn't there, it wasn't a church there. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, see the church was up here at Bell Town.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's what I'm saying.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, that's where our church was, but see, and, and, they said there was an old church down there, but . [unclear] , and so Calvin Crews and bunch of them got in together and built a church up here at Bell Town where the school was.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's where Belton's Creek was.

EDDIE McCOY:

Belton's Creek moved into the school, blackground school?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

It moved, they built, see, they built another little church down there at Belton Creek, and then they towed that little thing they had. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

School house, like a pack house. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, and so they kept building and kept building. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

And moved the children into the school, church. But Bell Town, Belton Creek came from Bell Town.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Bell Town.

EDDIE McCOY:

It was named Bell Town Church.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right, Calvin Crews and them built, called it Bell Town.

EDDIE McCOY:

And when they moved to, down to Clay, they kept the Bell, but they put the creek on to it. Now, who was your family, who at Bell Town, your uncle who? Calvin who?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uncle Calvin Crews.

EDDIE McCOY:

Alright who else?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

And uh, Mr. Will Cheatham.

EDDIE McCOY:

Who was Mr. Cheatham, was he related to your husband?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That as uh, Calvin and them's daddy.

EDDIE McCOY:

Tell me who else.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Mr. McCoy. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Mr. Charlie Bell?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, the Bell family, that's right, the Bell family. All that. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

What about Mr. Robertson?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Right..

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh, Colonel Robertson?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right. All them Bell Town Negroes, all us. I went to school Bell Town.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, so, so, Mr. Bell, Crews, and Williams, and all these guys got together, and uh, in Bell Town, what the church got too small or wasn't big enough for the members, or they. . . .split..

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Well, see they done got out from under this [unclear] and that's all they had to worship in.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, okay, now I understand what you are saying, what you are telling me, that Bell Town was a school, because the white man didn't mind you going to school, but he wasn't let you have a church, 'cause you didn't have the land.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, didn't have no church, just had a little. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Pack house, for the school.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes, yes, yes.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, and the church had to come out of the pack house school, and do everything there, until you come out from under slavery.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Come out from under slavery, and when they come out. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

When you came out from under that then, somebody went down to Clay and built Belton Creek.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

And that was a little bitty old church, just, I would just say something get out from this. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Was it big as this room?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I don't believe it was . . . .I went to school there too, I'd say about like this, might be a little larger.

EDDIE McCOY:

'Bout fifteen by fifteen?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

yeah, something about like that. I would say.

EDDIE McCOY:

And you didn't have no insulation or nothing?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Oh, no, no, no, you just there, I'd here Mr. Calvin Crews get up in church and tell it, he just cry. I said. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Mr. Calvin Crews?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, Calvin Crews.

EDDIE McCOY:

Uh. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He lived, he lived just across the street up there at Bell Town. And Will, Will Cheatham.

EDDIE McCOY:

Tell me about him.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That was [unclear] and them's father, he lived up there too.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, now as a family, I've been looking for, that uh, that was the Kazalt, you ever knew the Kazalt's that lived in Bell Town? One of the children went off, and was the head of Livingstone College, uh, uh, Barbara Scosher. Did you know that?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

huh uh, I believe, I don't believe I ever knowed that, I known about them.

EDDIE McCOY:

You knew the [unclear] , Mrs. Alan?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

yeah, yeah, I know all them, I know the [unclear] , Alex and all them, I know them.

EDDIE McCOY:

And the Powell's

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

yeah, yeah. Mr. Powell, he was one of the main leaders of that school, he, he considered himself head more money, which he did, which he did. And uh, so he was one

---

Page 29

of the leaders getting that school, you know getting things going up at Bell Town. Always wanted to get all together to him. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

He was a driving man, he always wanted better?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, yeah. Yes sir. Yes sir. He sure was.

EDDIE McCOY:

He was like a teacher?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

He always wanted you to do better and be better.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He always thought that, he always thought that.

EDDIE McCOY:

That's just like car, or anything you had, he always wanted to say you could be better.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's true, and you know, his children went, his children went, 'cause he was behind them you know, he knew how to do it. He knew how to do it. . [unclear] ? Sure was, I know him real good.

EDDIE McCOY:

So when y'all went to Sunday school, did you have church every Sunday, or you had it every other Sunday, how was it then?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We had it every other Sunday, we didn't have church every Sunday, 'cause it was so bad, you know, for us to get there.

EDDIE McCOY:

Well who. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Now, when we moved up here, we used to walk from down here, where we moved to down here. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Bell Town?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Bell Town, we used to walk up to that one, Sunday School. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, you weren't far from it?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, no, we would get out there and walk, and uh, the Hazens was on that line, and uh, different ones, you know, and would get out there then, and walk. A crowd of us in the street on Sunday, ain't nothing about not car or nothing like that.

EDDIE McCOY:

Where you get your paper from, your pencils and paper? Where y'all get your books from, or what kind did you have?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We had some uh, Mrs. Harris used to bring us some, I don't know where she got it from, she'd bring us some, it weren't like the stuff you use now.

EDDIE McCOY:

Tell me about the white children when y'all lived on these farms, did they go to school every day, or did they have to stay and work too?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, them white children didn't have to see no work, no we did the work, that went, we get up soon in the morning, and pick on that tobacco, and til we get back from that school. Them white children didn't stop.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, did they help y'all. . . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Not until the later years, you know.

EDDIE McCOY:

Alright, did they help y'all with your lesson and stuff like that?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No. They didn't want us to learn nothing.

EDDIE McCOY:

I agree that.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

You come into contact with some of them now, you know. Sometimes, you'll find some of them, they don't care whether you learn nothing.

EDDIE McCOY:

No.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, they don't want you to learn nothing

EDDIE McCOY:

I want you to tell me a lot about Mr. Charlie Bell, because, he was your friend. . . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

My cousin. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh, he was your cousin too. Uh, he taught himself how to be a carpenter?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah. He learned himself.

EDDIE McCOY:

But nobody, didn't know white man have to teach him?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He learned himself, and then he worked for them white folks, he tell [unclear] when he got out from under his daddy, he done got out from under him, he tended his own business. Sure he did.

EDDIE McCOY:

Was anymore of his brothers, anybody else around here was carpenters with him?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Because I know he used to carpenter in Oxford everywhere.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He sure did. Sam Day.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

You know Sam Day. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Is he related to the Days..

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, that's right. He was related to the Days.

EDDIE McCOY:

But did this Sam Day go to, what church did he go to? Oak grove, Olive Grove?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Oak Grove, Olive Grove was his church.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did he go to Bryan's Hill School?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

They, all the Days, live and went to Bryan's Hill School.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

That's right, that's right.

EDDIE McCOY:

you ever seen Bryan's Hill School, before it was torn down?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, I been there, before it tore down.

EDDIE McCOY:

You went to Bryan's Hill School?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, I didn't go there for school.

EDDIE McCOY:

But you been down there?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, my children went there, when we live with Henry, we moved to Henry Day's, when we left over here at uh, on Raleigh Road, we moved to Henry Day?

EDDIE McCOY:

Was he a white man too?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, you know Henry Day.

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

I know you know Henry Day. No, he's a black man.

EDDIE McCOY:

How long did y'all stay with him?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Stayed with him about three, you couldn't live with Henry Day,. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Why what did. . .

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

He was all right anyway, but he knows everything.

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, you couldn't tell him nothing.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No.

EDDIE McCOY:

And when a person know everything, he think he better than you.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Tried, didn't know how to farm, he didn't know how to, that's all he ever did, he knew how to farm.

EDDIE McCOY:

And where did y'all get your grease from? Play with your hair, tell me about that.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

We used to go to the woods, it was a kind of weed, that you bought.

EDDIE McCOY:

Try to tell me.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

It was a heart, you call it a heart.

[TAPE 1, SIDE B]

[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]

EDDIE McCOY:

Okay, where did y'all get your grease from and stuff to put on your hands and hair, what did you do, how did you fix it, what happened?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

My mom used to go to the woods, and she'd carry us with her, and get this, I reckon you seen it, you know what it was, it's a leaf look like a heart, shaped just like a heart, just green, green, and she'd take that and carry it to the house and stir it, and stew it up. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Like they do. [unclear] ?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah.

EDDIE McCOY:

Roots and stuff?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, I would say just like you going to cook some salad.

EDDIE McCOY:

Salad, Uh-huh.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

She would stir it up, and then she would put uh lard in it, you know, always had lard, 'cause my daddy always raised hogs. Put a little lard in it, and that was our hair grease.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did it work real good?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, it did good, I wish I could find some now.

EDDIE McCOY:

Oh yeah.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

'Can't find any, but you can get it in an old plant vase, she used to. . . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Like pope salad, it always come up around toilets and stuff like that. You ate a lot of pope salad ain't you?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yes, it was good too, I didn't know but it was good.

EDDIE McCOY:

Yeah, my grandma pack all the onions in it.

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah, she go and get [unclear] ? and we go to the woods and get the bud out of the pine, you know. . .

EDDIE McCOY:

Pine tree?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Uh huh, that bud down in that, in that pine tree, and she rake that out of the bud, didn't want that heavy part, get them buds out there and carry them to the house, and that what, that was our medicine.

EDDIE McCOY:

Did she boil it or just give it to you?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

No, she just boiled it, that was our medicine.

EDDIE McCOY:

She boiled it?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah. Nothing about going to no store, or store [unclear]

EDDIE McCOY:

And what for cuts, what did you do when you cut yourself?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Get some lamp oil, and put it on there.

EDDIE McCOY:

And what did you use soot for?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

To keep you from bleeding.

EDDIE McCOY:

Soot to keep you from bleeding?

ANNIE BELL CHEATHAM:

Yeah. Yeah, you bleeding you can take that stuff and put it, and take