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Transcript on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Library
Citation of this interview should be as follows:
“Interview
Q-0015, in the Southern Oral History Program Collection #4007,
Southern
Historical Collection, The Wilson Library,
University of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill”
Annie Bell Cheatham, an 84 year-old black woman and a long-time resident of Oxford, North Carolina, talks about her childhood as the daughter of a sharecropper, the limited educational opportunities open to her, and the many, many stories of slavery that were passed down to her by older relatives. She gives short answers through much of the interview and her informal conversational style is reflective of her familiarity with her interviewer, James Eddie McCoy, a fellow Oxford resident. The most detailed parts of this interview have to do with the second- and third-hand slavery stories on which she was reared and how these served as life lessons for navigating North Carolina's racial geography.
A black sharecropper's daughter discusses her difficult upbringing on the farm and the many stories of slavery on which she was raised.
[START OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]
The time is 3:15, the address is 401 McClenaham Street, I will be interviewing Mrs. Annie Bell Cheatham this afternoon. Today is March the 21st 1995, I would like for you to tell me your address and you name. Mrs. Cheatham, I would like for you to tell me your name and your address.
Annie Bell Williams.
That's your maiden name?
Yes, it is.
All right, now what's your married name?
Annie Bell Cheatham.
Annie Bell Cheatham. What's your address here, McClenahan Street?
401 McClenahan Street, Oxford.
And what year, month, year your birthday and month?
My birthday was 1911.
Yeah, 1911, February?
February the 22nd.
Okay, so you are 85?
I'm 85 years old.
When you was a kid growing up, what community did you grow up in?
Uh, I growed up in, we called it the flat woods. I growed up in the flat woods.
Uh huh, and were you, your parents, were y'all born down there, your family came from down there?
Yes, my family came from the flat woods.
Were your father a sharecropper or . . .?
Yes, he was.
On what, whose, whose farm was he a sharecropper on?
William Crews.
William Crews?
Uh-huh.
Tell me something about Mr. Crews.
Mr. Crews was a white man, and he was a very nice man, and we lived there with him about twelve years.
And you thought he was a fair man?
He was, and he was a farmer, of course he was.
What you got tired of, or your children, your sister and brother got too old, for your parents to sharecrop or what happened?
Well, we decided to come out the flat woods and live in the flat woods, and my father decided he wanted to get out from there, and come out, you know, and so we moved up here on the Raleigh Road, and 'bout five miles from Oxford.
How far, how long did you live there, before you went to Bell Town?
That was all Bell Town, that was Bell Town to us.
Oh, okay, okay, but that's Bell Town Community?
Yeah.
Okay, now uh, what year, do you have an idea what year y'all moved to Bell Town?
I don't know.
What did your father do after y'all moved?
Well, we farmed, we still farmed.
For who, what was that farm, you still sharecropping or what?
We still sharecropping.
For who?. . . . That's ok, uh, how many children did you have, Mrs. Cheatham?
Twelve.
You had twelve children?
Twelve children.
Uh, how many living now?
You mean how many did I have?
Uh-huh.
I may have told you wrong on that one. . . .
How many did you have?
I had uh, twelve children, yes I did, twelve children.
How many boys did you have?
Let me see now. . . .
Name them.
Alec Williams, Roy Williams, Willie Williams, Johnny Williams, James Williams, Eric Williams, Benny Williams.
Now the girls.
Nancy Williams, Betsy Williams, Ester Williams. . . .
She was a Williams before she married a Cooper, 'cause she was your daughter.
Yeah, ..
Ester, was she the baby?
Yeah, she was the baby.
Okay, that's okay, now.. were, what, were your, were your kids, were your brothers any move with your father when y'all moved to Bell Town?
Oh, no, all us moved from over there. . . .
Okay, you was married?
No.
You wasn't married when you moved?
No. . .
At Mr. Crews farm?
Yes, any of us moved from the backwoods, the family, the whole family moved.
Y'all moved as a family?
Yes, right up here on Raleigh road.
Okay.
Up here next to Will Kern, that was our farm right there.
Will Kern?
Will Kern, Will Kern farm.
Tell me about, tell me something about Mr. Will.
Mr. Will Kern, he was a nice man, nice to work with, and he tried to do all he could to help us, but he was poor too.
Uh huh, he didn't have much, Uh-huh. Everybody was struggling.
That's right, that's right.
But y'all were family?
Yeah, that's right we was a family folks.
Don't matter what color y'all was, all of y'all was family?
That's right.
Well, that was nice, that mean a lot if somebody treat you right.
Yeah. . . .
And you know, if you fair, and he treat you nice. . .
He was, he was.
And so y'all sharecropped there?
We sharecropped, in his garden, what they had was ours.
That was nice.
I been to that garden a many a day and got something.
And you didn't have to eat out on the porch or nothing?
Oh no. . .
If they was there, they didn't. . .
Oh, no siree
So, y'all stayed at Mr. Will Kern's, just guess, about how many years y'all stayed with him?
I would say twelve years..
You stayed with him about twelve years?
Yeah.
Okay, when did you get married, was it after you moved to Mr. Will Kern?
Yeah.
Or was it when you was down at blackground in the flatwoods?
No, I was just a child in the flatwoods. I don't know when I got married. . .
Okay, did your brothers and sisters, how many brothers and sisters was it with y'all? How many sisters did you have and how many brothers did you have?
I had four sisters and five brothers.
Did they, how far did they go in school?
Some way up in the ninth grade.
To the ninth grade?
Uh huh, and some stopped in the eighth grade.
Okay.
And they, they uh, Johnny, at that time, when they got old enough, now we didn't have no rules like we got now, they had to get up there and help clean up the road, you know.
'Cause you had like wagon paths?
Yeah, I mean, the real road, the real road.
I understand.
Like they have convicts now, but at the same time, when you got a certain age, when you got eighteen years old, you had to go up there, and help keep up the road, we, we didn't have that then.
The state wasn't taking care of. . . .
No, no.
. . .of the roads.
That's right, they had to go up there, certain time, yeah, they had to go up there, when they got eighteen, they had to go up there and help keep up that road.
Did they get paid, or they just. . . .
No.
That's just, part of your job.
You got eighteen years old, you go up there and help keep that road, spots and what not.
So uh, which one of your brothers and sisters started leaving Oxford, going away, and left, did any of them leave Oxford, go away for a better job, or went to another state?
Uh yeah, my brother Lester, he went to Richmond, he left Richmond and went to the Army, that's where he died.
He got killed in service?
Yeah.
Okay, was he, who else left?
My brother Alec William.
Where did he go?
He went to the army too.
Did it, did he come back to Oxford, or did he live somewhere else?
No, he came back here, 'cause he married Ellen.
Uh-huh.
After he came back here.
Did any of your sisters leave town and go away, up north?
No, no.
All of them stayed here?
Yeah, stayed around, they got married some, but you know, stayed around.
Now, I know what the flat woods mean, but I would like for you explain for someone listening to the tape, as say what is a, what you call flatwood. Now, you explain to me what y'all call flatwood.
Well, it was a way back place, it wasn't near no houses or nothing, we live way back, we farmed with Mr. Crews, he was a nice person, he was very nice, nice to us, but we just got tired of living back, and my father decided he was going to come out, and buy a place out on the road, which he did. And we moved out on the road, on Raleigh road.
Now, flat wood, is that, when you live so far back in the woods, like a mile, a mile and a half, you just can't walk out of there as you talk about driving out of there, and, a lot of times y'all probably got a slide hooked to mules up, and y'all came out that way.
Had to get out of there sometimes. . .
And that's what the kids need to know what flat wood is. That's what it was.
That's right
The trees wasn't flat, the whole thing was flat, and that's why the call it flatwood.
That's right.
'Cause everything was flat.
Everything, everything.
And they weren't no way in and weren't no way out but walk out. . . .
Walk. . . .
A bus or something. . .
That's right, my daddy used to hook up the wagon, like we come to church, we get, all us get dressed and all get on that wagon, come down the street.
And then sometimes the ladies come to your church would bring two pair of shoes.
We did that many times, or bring a rag when we get to church clean my shoes off.
And carry two, one to keep, one to don't be going to church muddy, and the one to go into church be clean.
That's the truth.
Two pair.
And you come to church, and bring dinner, had to bring own wagon, go to dinner on the wagon, and going to stay over there the night, we won't go back in the flatwoods, going to stay over there in the night, like having revival, some nights we stay over there until my mom bring enough dinner for dinner, for our dinner and then have some snacks to eat and stuff.
And y'all stay in the church all night?
No, we have a lantern, had two or three lanterns hanging on that wagon.
Come on Mrs. Hicks.
It's the truth
Uh huh, and all y'all slept in the back of that wagon?
Yeah, we coming homing, we coming home
And you talking about two or three hours.
Yeah, sure, sure. We did that from Sanford a lot.
Had a good time didn't you?
Yeah.
'Cause everybody had the same. . .
Everybody had the, it would be wagons just like this, one behind the other.
Like a wagon train.
That's right, coming home, and sometime they would be hollering and singing and going on. . . .
Had a good time, didn't you?
Yeah, had a good time, too. Had a good time.
What about uh, your minister, uh, did he stay awhile, did you have the same minister would stay a long time with you?
Yeah, he would
He would? That was nice.
Yes, come down that wagon and spend the night, nobody didn't think nothing about it at that time.
I understand.
Come and spend the night, next day he.
I understand. Y'all had it tough didn't you?
Yeah, but it didn't seem like that. . .
I understand.
Everybody was
So, your brothers and sisters got along with Mr. Kern?
Oh, yeah.
When y'all worked on his farm?
Oh yeah.
No problem? He treated everybody the same?
Yeah.
Was there other families that lived..
Yeah, there was other families that live on the place too.
Name some people that live on that other family, that you go . . .
Uh, Nick Parker lived there.
Nick Parker?
Nick Parker.
Oh yeah.
Moved from down here to Bobbit, Clarence Bobbit.
Name somebody else.
Uh, trying to think. . .
You talking about Nick and Willa Parker?
Nick, uh huh, 'cause old man Nick, he's the daddy
Okay, uh, how many people that lived down in the flatwood, you had to walk out of there to blackground school?
Yeah, sure we walked through, sure we. . .
How many miles was that you think, it's almost back at the church.
It was, it was back at the church. . .
Yeah, 'cause the school wasn't far from the church.
It sure weren't. . .
So, you had to walk about three or four miles a day?
Yeah, every bit of that, and it get so cold you 'bout freezing, but we would come through here, above where the cemetery, and we come up back of that, so we walked up that railroad, come up the railroad, and walk up that uh, and got up that, the school is back of the cemetery, and you come up this way, and you got to the school of course before you did the church. And we walk from there, we'd be crying and going on, it'd be so cold and everything, but we had to try to make it.
And when you got to school, school was half cold. . .
Yeah, we had to gather in the wood, and
And what about, y'all didn't have no bathroom.
No, no, you use a tub, only way to use the bathroom was a tub.
And when you was in school, everybody had to go out in the woods on their own away. . .
That's where we had to go, out in the woods.
No toilet for nobody.
No, no, no, no, you made your own toilet.
Who else brought wood to the, other than y'all was cutting it, did anybody bring, did the parents bring wood to keep the school going?
They would bring a little something sometimes, but see they on other folks farms too, you see, they couldn't just haul a little wood just anytime you know.
I understand, right, like if you on, okay, everybody kid that went to your school was sharecroppers, uh, working on halves, so they couldn't bring wood like a person could.
But, see like, you get through your class, I get through, now we had
timber, we, they sent us this time, we go and break down limbs, and we
get stuff now for tomorrow, we get our stuff and bring it in and put it
down for in the morning. Children would come in there, just crying just
so cold, now we had frosts then, we had frosts, weren't no
What was her name, Lucretia Harris?
Lucretia Harris. She drove old horse, just something to get on the road, to get killed by, she got there, and the bigger boys, took that horse and tied it, and they would tie him where he could bite off the limbs, you know, something to eat, or where he could get a little grass. And we toted water..
How far did you have to go get the water?
I tell you, we toted water from the school, you know where Alec Hunt used
to live? Way on that hill, we toted, well, we come, this school over
here now, in these woods, Mr. Hunt's house sitting over yonder, school
was sitting way back yonder, .
But it always had to be two or three people, wouldn't let nobody, you had to go far, one person couldn't. . .
That's right, couldn't bring nothing back.
So, everyday you had to have a fresh bucket of water?
Oh yeah, two a day. We get us a bucket full for our lunch, everybody sitting on a bench, bring a bench out to school, all of us sitting on a bench. And some sitting on the ground, eating them peas and cornbread, and potatoes, some of them had sweet potatoes, you know, and maybe you have a little something different, I go out and buy a little piece. . . .
That was nice, all y'all were family?
Sure we were.
'Cause you didn't have nothing.
We didn't have, one have about as much as the other one, nobody have nothing.
The school, who built that school, you ever heard who built that school?
No, I don't, I don't. . .
Was it on a white man's land, or a black's had, or the state?
State, I think, had it. From the
What lodge—Masonic?
Yeah, they just moved in from down there, they used to be back in them woods, and the school was sitting here, and the lodge would be sitting back like that from the school.
Was that Mr. Kern's property?
No, that was back down yonder in the flatwoods then, we was in no man's land then.
So uh, what happened when Mrs., when the teacher got sick, who would teach school, or couldn't get. . .
You know Ethel Holm?
Uh-huh.
Well, she have been down there and taught, in Mrs. Harris' place.
And who else?
Uh, Mrs. Ridley. . .
Mrs. Chavis Ridley.
Yeah, that's who, she would come up there and teach, substitute, you know sometimes, yeah, sure would.
So, so when y'all went to get the water, you would be gone about an hour, half an hour.
We made it that long..
Huh?
We made it that long. . .
Yeah, but I'm just saying, it was actually a long way.
It was a long way, long ways.
Now, y'all went to the ninth grade?
Yeah.
She teach the first grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, ninth grade.
Uh huh, but McCoy, the grades weren't like it is now.
But when she teaching the first grade, what do you all children be doing? Getting your lesson out for when she get to y'all?
That's right, we had a long, it was a shelf, and great long shelf, long as that, and a whole lot of us, to get to it, we could get to that shelf, and we could work on that shelf. Have our pencil and paper you know, it would come a time of day when she almost time to leave, we had to get on that table, and kind of sketch our lesson out, for the, study tonight for tomorrow.
Now, what about lights in the schools?
Had lamp lights.
You didn't have no lights at home?
We had lights at home, but we didn't have to electric, we had lanterns and lamps, lamp light.
Yeah, if you didn't have lights at school, you know you didn't have none at home.
No, we had lamps.
Huh?
Like them sitting here, I keep mine.
Oh, that's the kind you had?
Yes sir.
At home too?
Yes sir, that's all we had was lamp lights.
Now, if Mr. Kern was nice to y'all, did y'all raise everything, didn't have to go to town for nothing like meat, hogs. . .
Yeah, they raised hogs, and my daddy always aged them. . .
You had flour and stuff like that?
Yeah, and he had wheat, and have, and when the folks come around to cut
wheat, my momma always cooked dinner. You know for, wheat cutters, wheat
cutters come today, you gotta fix dinner. So, she stayed then, and fixed
a big dinner, for the wheat cutters, they would get to our house about
dinner time, and they would eat dinner
And you'd go from one community to the other?
Yeah, yeah, everybody had wheat, they would go around, and you would be know, you had let us know when he at your house. . . .
And how many people prepare food. . .
Yeah, and you know that he would be at your house tomorrow, and you get ready for him tomorrow to cook dinner and all.
Tell me about your father, could he read and write?
Yeah, he could, you could understand he didn't know. . .but he could, he could. . . .
He knew the alphabet..
Yeah, yeah yeah..
What about your mother?
She could. . .
She could read and write?
Yeah, good missionary.
How far you think she went in school?
She didn't go too far, I know that.
Where did she come from, did she come from down in flatwood, or she came from somewhere else?
She, no, she was a country woman, I know that. I would say she come from, yeah, she did, yeah, 'cause I used to go to her momma's house. She, she, now I say flatwood 'cause it was back, way back, I have been there, and walked with her to her momma's house. She, we had to go down the railroad, like say from Clay's, you had to walk down that railroad, go way on up there, I'd say about a mile, and then we'd turn and went down, to where they lived.
Which parents you think that came up in slavery, did your mother's side have any?
Yeah, my momma did, 'cause she has made us cry many times telling.
Tell me something what she said.
Tell how she come, and we'd get to complaining, and she'd say listen
children, said y'all don't know nothing, said then she'd tell, this is
what momma did
Oh yeah? Was it by hisself or he would split the family.
He'd split the family, he said, he would sit and tell us about it.
And they sent his children and wife one way, and he never seen his family no more?
No, he didn't, and they are not Cheatham's, he told us, he said we are not Cheathams.
What did he say his name was?
Uh, Alans.
Alans was his name?
That's right.
And they changed his name to Cheatham?
Cheatham. See, that's who they sold him to.
Mr. Cheatham?
Yeah, he was sold to the Cheathams.
Uh huh, but he had sense enough to keep his old, he could remember his own old name.
Yeah, he could write his name as good as anybody. He could write his name and things.
Okay.
Yeah, he was a Cheatham. That's why we Cheathams.
But that's not his family real name?
No
They changed his name?
That's right.
To Cheatham?
That's right. He said he stood there and saw him when they sold him, and a whole lot of other people.
Where was this at, North Carolina?
Uh huh, North Carolina.
Do you, what farm did he come off, what plantation did he come off of, your husband?
He, he was a Alan, I mean, that's the farm he came off of, he was a, he came off, and they sold him to a Cheatham, sold him to the Alans.
Do you know how much they sold him for?
No, I don't. He didn't say how much they sold him for, but the women, the white men, they would want the women, 'cause they could cook, and wash, and do all that, he said he would work with them, and the women would have to cook and do, and his foot, great big old thing busted in his foot, where he said he worked. . . .
Frost bitten?
Uh huh, he said he didn't know nothing about no shoes. He worked, he said he get up soon in the morning, go over there, grubbing them, getting them grubs out of the ground, roots and things, didn't have no breakfast or nothing.
Breaking up new ground?
Yeah, land too. And he said the women, they would keep the women in the house, 'cause they do the cooking, and doing, and the white men would go with the black women.
Uh huh, and they didn't have no choice?
No, they didn't have no choice, of course they didn't.
So, if they wanted to go with a black man's wife, they could go whenever they got ready?
Yeah, that's what they did.
And nothing could be done about it.
Said you better not say nothing about it, say they will hang him, you wouldn't, you couldn't do nothing.
And when they have a hanging, they bring and let all the blacks come and see it.
Right, and he said right up here, bless his heart, he could tell you everything, right up here, where you go up to, up here way you go up to, I say way you go to New Light. . . .
On Goshen street?
Uh huh, when you get up there, when you go up there hill, right to your left there where you don't see no houses, he said they hung folks right there.
Oh, that's why they call it lynching hill?
That's, that's exactly what he said. He said, he told us many times, he called and carried us up there, he said they used to lynch folks right up there. That's the reason they call it Lynching Hill. That's where they hang, they get you out of your house at night, you better not say anything, they'll kill you.
So, some of the white girls, the black women didn't even come back at night, they stayed if they wanted them to stay.
Oh, they didn't have no choice.
But, the white women didn't have no choice either.
No, no they didn't have no choice.
She knew her husband was going with black women.
She, was right there. Say, you better not say nothing. And he said when they sold, said, he said, he would tell us, sitting around the fire one night, he would tell, and he would just cry so hard. He said the children, girls and things, children didn't want to lose their parents, maybe you say, well, I want her.
And they split the family?
They bid you off, bid you off, he said they bid you off.
And split them all up.
Yes, and send you to that man, when a man was up there, said there was a boy, said well I want that one, and said he was sold, he said he was sold. Better not cry, when you cry, then they would beat you. Lord, he told us so many, we'd cry, used to cry sitting around the fireplace. Crying all, he'd be so pitiful.
'Bout how old did he live to get?
Well, he was ninety, ninety, I believe it was ninety four years old.
He went through all of that, and lived that long.
Had to go through it to live. I would look at him sometimes, and on Sunday, he go to church though, over there on Harris' grove, he went, he would get on the horse, take his shoes and tie, tie them together, and throw them shoes across that horse.
Then when he get there, he put his shoes on. I have, I have cried so many times for him, and I won't beat it or nothing, but I know that was wrong.
Yeah, 'cause it split everybody up.
Yeah.
And it worry you to death.
Lord have mercy.
Don't know where your wife, don't know where your children, and won't ever see them no more.
That's true, some people didn't never see, didn't never see them
Just tie them, and drag them on.
Yeah, child crying, him looking back and wanting to go with momma. Momma crying too, but she couldn't do nothing. Had to have somebody to stay.
Yeah, if you want to live.
Yeah, we have been through something in this world. Not just me and you, but think about the black folks, Lord have mercy, just so pitiful.
What, what did he do, was he a carpenter or what was he?
Who?
Your bro, Mr. Cheatham, your, your. . .
No, just a farmer, just a straight farmer. He didn't have time to do nothing but farm.
He worked out in the field all his life?
He worked, yeah, he worked all the time, he didn't have time to go, do, I worked with Mr. So and so.
He ain't never went to school?
No.
Didn't know about reading and writing or nothing?
No.
But just hard work.
Yeah, he could, he could sketch his name, yeah, he could get his name, get his name down, so you could understand him.
Did he ever try after people got free, did he ever tell y'all he tried to find his family, or just couldn't.
No. . . .
Or it was just too late?
It was too late, and he done got old. . .
Did he know how many brothers and sisters he had?
Yeah, he know it, he know it, he know his people.
Oh, he was big enough.
Yeah, 'cause he told us, he told us, he said we are not Cheathams, we
ain't no Cheathams. And then he would tell of how they sold him, and
everything, just a crowd of folks standing around there, waiting for, I
said get his nigger, that's what they said, get his nigger, he said they
put you up on a great big block, and make you stand on that block, and
man
Uh huh, he was smart enough to keep his name, wasn't he?
He kept his name.
Could your father do carpentry work? Who made barns and did work?
Well, they see see, when he got out from under them, see they would have barn raisings.
What that mean, explain that to me.
They would raise barns, like. . .
A group of people would get together and build a barn?
That's right. They could do it then when they got out from under them, see then they could work together, black folks could work together.
Oh, okay.
'Cause you couldn't do it while you, in that slave, see, they got their own slaves then, and they go down to different houses, I say Mr. Hayes, they go out one day and raise his barn, get his barn, well maybe next day, maybe Mr. Clyde's day. That's what they were, they could do it then, 'cause they was out from under those white folks.
So they knew how to carpentry and do their own work?
Yeah, yeah.
The white man didn't teach them nothing, they didn't need them?
No, they just go out there and did what they did.
And they built their own houses, everybody, everything. . .
One would help the other one, well you see you couldn't do it when you was hooked under them white folks, you did, 'cause all your days belonged to him.
Uh huh, what about on Sundays, what did he say they did no Sundays in
slavery? Did they have
He said, yeah, he said on Sundays, he said the only way you got to church
on Sunday, he said they would, he said the way he heard service on
Sunday, what he said, he said they would turn a pot down
Did he ever tell you they carried some slaves to church with them?
No, he ain't never said that.
They didn't never go to church with him?
No, never hear him say about them going to church. But he said they used
to turn pots
'Cause that keeps it down.
Yeah.
Oh, with all the sound, everybody getting praying, sing on the pot.
That's right.
And that noise goes into the pot, and the sound don't go out.
That's what he said, he said it was done, I done it a many, he said, Lord, he started crying, he said I did it a many times.
Now, was cornbread cake on Sundays? That's what I heard some people say. What kind of bread did they eat?
Momma would cook us batter bread.
What is that?
That's bread, well, you make it up just like you cooking a cake.
Uh-huh.
And we always had chickens, and stuff, you know, 'cause you could raise them yourself. And put that, make that up just like you are cooking a cake. And put in the stove.
Uh-huh.
And come out, just look just like a cake.
Cake, Uh-huh. But uh, did they have a lot of slaves on that farm?
Yeah, he said they did.
Was it in Granville County. . . .?
That's all you saw was slaves, you see then.
Was it in Granville County, or was it another county?
It must have been another county, I don't think it was in Granville County, I don't reckon it was in Granville. 'Cause he was raised in Vance County.
Okay, okay.
See, that's his home, Vance County.
Oh, okay, and was Mr., your, your husband born at? Was he born over there, or after they moved the plantation?
Over here, he said, he was born over here. . .
In Granville County.
Uh huh, but he was just a little boy.
What farm, was he on the Kern farm then?
No, first place I know that, that they lived was over here back of Bell Town, Bell Town, but it was way back, back, he could tell you a lot about Bell Town back over there. . .
How did you meet Mr. Cheatham?
Well, we went, we met, we uh, after they got out from under slavery, all the slaves, everybody was out of slavery then, we worked together in tobacco, we helped his family, and they helped this family, that's the way. . . .
But don't you think it was better back then, with all the families was together working together than the way we doing it now?
Of course, of course. I believe that. . .
But you were closer then.
You were closer. . .
And
Yeah, you telling the truth, 'cause Mrs. Hayes and them, they were our next door neighbors, if our cow come in first, I had to tell Mrs. Hayes.
What was Mrs. Hayes full name?
Uh, uh, Mary.
Mary Hayes?
Uh-huh.
Okay.
I had to carry her, momma sent her eggs, she would have eggs to cook her a pudding, pudding, that's what they called them then. Sugar pudding, Uh-huh.
What, how many children did Mrs. Hayes have?
Think she had five, I know she had five.
Was they near your children's age?
Yeah,
Alright, who else lived near y'all where y'all borrowed stuff from, and loaned stuffs.
Mrs. Caldwell, and all that bunch down in there.
What's her name, what Mrs. Caldwell first name?
Lessy Caldwell.
Lessy Collin or. . .
Caldwell. . .All of us lived down there, and the Crewss, uh sent it down in there.
Uh huh, it's hard to think about it, isn't it?
No, I don't think it about it no more, I get on it sometimes, just get it on my mind. . .
Alright now, after you and Mr. Cheatham got married, where was y'all living at?
Living at Clay.
You was down at Clay Station?
Where you turn, you know, to go into the church?
Uh-huh. . .
You know the little house was sitting there. . .
Uh-huh. . .
That's where we went to. They were living there when we got married until we moved in with them.
But Belton Creek Church wasn't there, it wasn't a church there. . .
No, see the church was up here at Bell Town.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, that's where our church was, but see, and, and, they said there was
an old church down there, but .