A mother-to-be induces an abortion and ends a marriage
Moore talks about his wife, Jean, who seems like a troubled woman. Jean and Moore argued frequently, sometimes over having children, something she did not want to do. She became pregnant, however, but at five months, had a miscarriage. Moore later learned from his godmother that Jean had induced four other miscarriages by ingesting a kind of sap. Soon thereafter, Jean left him to live with her parents, who described her as a religious fanatic under the control of a certain woman. The couple split but never legally divorced, and Jean preaches occasionally at Moore's church.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with John Thomas Moore, October 18, 2000. Interview R-0142. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
I tell you brother, ooo, I went through the mill with that
woman. She didn't want me to speak to nobody,
didn't want me to shake peoples' hand or greet the
saints. You know how in some Bibles they'll great each other
with a holy kiss. [claps] You know how
that is. We were doing what the Bible say do. (She'd say),
"I don't want to hugging nobody." I said,
"That woman don't mean a thing. You the only woman
that mean anything to me." [affecting a crabby voice] (She
said), "I don't know that. Don't do that
no more. Do that and I'm going to do something." I
said, "Do what you want to do." I went on, went on,
went on. She didn't have to work because I was working. I
said, "Don't work if you don't feel that
way. Just stay here and take care of the house. Send the baby to school
and take care of everything you have to do."
She done that for a while, then said, "I think I might wanna
work." I said, "Look in the paper and find you
something. Maybe somebody might want to you do some housecleaning or
something." She done that for a while, then she went all
biserk. I said, "What in the world!" She just
[unclear] screaming and then, then,
then—next thing I know—. I
worked at Duke and got sick one day. I went to the doctor and he said,
"Mr. Moore, what's wrong?" I said,
"Doctor, I can't keep nothing on my stomach. I bring
my food and I can't eat. I'd go to the cafeteria.
I don't understand. This is not me. I'm not
supposed to be like this. He came in and test me and said, "You
know what? You just recently got married?" I said,
"Yes, I sure did." (He said), "Well,
I'll tell you what: your wife is (in the family
way.)" I said, "No, no, no, please don't
tell me that." Two or three days later I went home. I sat down
and I began to talk. I said, "Honey, let me tell you one thing.
I been sick for two or three days. I just can't half eat. I
can't hardly eat when I come home, just don't feel
like nothing, vomiting [unclear] . Doctor
told me to tell you that you was in the family way." [dramatic]
(She said), "No, no, no, I can't go through that.
Can't go through that. No! Not now." I said,
"Well, it's there." So she finally went to
Duke and they told her. Ran all kinds of tests that they run (on
rabbits. Rabbit test always come out.) They said, "No,
you're three months pregnant. She said, "No, no, no,
I'll never have that, I'll never go through
that."
She done pretty good for a while. She got about five months, I came home
one day and she said, "Look at me." When you get about
five months you start coming out. I said, "That's
nice. Ain't that cute! That's nice."
[sharply and talking fast] (She said), "Naw, it
ain't. I don't know what you talking about. I
don't like that." I said, "Come on,
what's wrong, what's wrong? That's
what's supposed to happen." (She said,)
"Not me, not me." So I came home one day, she was
laying down. I said, "Why are you laying down? You
don't feel good?" (She said,) "Going the
bathroom and look in that night pot." I went in there and she
done had a miscarriage; everything is laying in the nightpot. I said,
"What in the world has you done? What in the
world has you done, girl? That's not right. You
don't do stuff like that. I hadn't hit you, I
hadn't beaten or done nothing to you. You haven't
lifted nothing heavy or nothing." I know she loved to clean the
house and turn the stuff around, but I don't see where that
done it. I'll tell you this then and we'll skip
that part. You know, this sap out of the root you get out of the
wood—the red root, you can drink that.
It's good for your body. When Grandma used to fix that on
Sunday morning, we used to drink that when we'd eat
breakfast. But that white kind will run you blind, and it will knock up
babies. That's what she was drinking. I was talking to my god
mother, Ms. Shaw; she lived next door and we did, too. I said,
"I seen Jean going into part of that cabinet, Mother, eating
something out of a little mayonnaise jar; it's white and
clear." She said, "Oh, my God! Oh, my God, Bishop. I
hate to tell you—. You mean to tell me she drink that white
sap (after tea?)" I said, "What in the world is
that?" She said, "The red kind you can
drink." I said, "Grandma always fixed that for us; we
enjoyed it." She said, "But that white kind will run
you crazy and knock up babies." I said, "Is that what
happened when she had that miscarriage in that night that I told you
about?" She said, "Yes, I could have told you this,
but I didn't want to, because I didn't want to
hurt your feelings." I kept seeing her going and drinking that,
drinking that. Every three or four months she would just drink that.
[voice wavering] O.K., the first one was a set of twins, next time it
was a set of twins. That's four kids gone down the drain.
Then later on she got like that again; that was one; that was a little
boy. Five kids she just flushed away. The Bible tells us,
"Don't take that you can't
give." When you take a child's life, you
can't give it back. I don't care what you do.
He'll forgive you, but you done took that child's
life. That could have been a teacher, preacher, bishop; it could have
been a president, anything. A senator, anything. You don't do
that. If God let's you conceive it, you're
supposed to bring it into the world, give birth to it, give it a chance
to survive and be what it ought to be. He didn't give it to
you just to be giving it to you. So from that it just grew worse and
worse and worse and worse. She'd run all around naked in the
street, I'd get her, bring her back home, talk with her, not
try to beat her, and [unclear] . They said,
"That's what you're supposed to do.
You're husband and wife. You got a good husband. Got married
and don't nobody done nothing to nobody. That's a
nice, educated man, spiritual man. You'll regret
it." [Affecting a crabby voice] "I don't
want that. I ain't have no children." She went up to
my next god mother up the street, and (my god mother says),
"Let me take her, pray with her, talk with her,
and try to help her, let her see she done wrong." She just kept
getting worse and worse. The fifth day I went up there she got mad,
started fighting me. I said, "Jean, what's wrong
with you?" [in voice] "I don't want to see
you no more. I don't want to see you no more. You
ain't going to do me tonight. I ain't having no
young ones for you. You ain't going to fool me (for the
young). So the doctor told her, "You will conceive again, and
the next time you conceive it will be triplets." She said,
"No, no. I ain't having no more youngings with him.
I'm leaving him. I'm going back home to Momma and
Daddy." She went back home to her momma and daddy, and in about
three or four weeks I got tired of being there by myself. So the
Saturday I was off I went up there to talk to him again I went up there
again to talk to her. Her daddy and told me, "Let me tell you
one thing: I know you a good man and good person, and her momma told me,
too. But my daughter is a religious fanatic."
[pause] I think you kind of puzzled
now, ain't you?
- CHRISTOPHER WEBER:
-
I don't understand what he meant by that.
- JOHN THOMAS MOORE:
-
Well, she just got so much religion and everything, she don't
believe in nothing nobody tell her. (She's) tied up with
these women's and things, and just caters to these
women's and everything they do, she do that? That woman told
her I wasn't supposed to be her husband, I wasn't
what I ought to be. She believed what that woman said. That woman
separated us. She would cater to that woman, go to that woman and stay,
get in the bed with her and everything, just do and carry on and do. I
just couldn't understand all that. So I was staying by
myself, still pastor of my church, still praying and talking to the
Lord. I was asking the Lord to stay in my body, because it was flesh. He
came in and blessed me. The Bible says, "Every man has his own
woman, a wife, you know. So I knew I couldn't go and get
married to anyone else, and I didn't try to do it. He just
kept me, staying in my body. I preached and teached and talked to
people, counsel folks in marriage. Yet and still, mine was broken all to
pieces. [claps] He had said I had to do
what God said do. He brought me out. I ain't married
[unclear]
nobody else since. Ain't thinking about
it. Too far gone now to think about getting married. He's
just blessed me.
And she called me one night—thunder and
lightning, we were having a terrible storm in Durham. I was living right
over there in the church. The church was over here on this side, and I
lived in this side [gesturing to left and right]. I said, "What
in the world is all this thunder and lightening and terrible
raining?" I answer the telephone, "Hello? Who is this?
Oh, how you doing, Jean?" [affecting a harsh voice]
"Don't ask me how I'm doing. Just letting
you know I'm sending you some letters. I done been to court
and filed a divorce against you." I said, "Whatever
you send I'll sign; I'm not coming to court. I
ain't signed no divorce and I ain't looking for no
divorce." [in voice] "Well, I done divorced you
anyway. I ain't staying with you no more. Ain't
having nothing else to do with you." [I said,] "If
that's what you want, then that's it.
I'll sign them and send them back to (Graham). And they sent
me back the divorce, when she went to court. No children, no nothing. I
called and I said, "You mean to tell me you didn't
tell the court that you destroyed five kids from me? How you think that
make me feel?" "I ain't thinking about all
that. I ain't think about all that. I got to live, is what
I'm going to do." She's in Burlington
now. She was a preacher then. She was pastor and preacher of the Church
of God. Whole lotta people. [claps] When
she come to my home church to preach, I go over [to the pews]. She be
there preaching. I sit there and listen and look, and my mind is
just—you know.
- CHRISTOPHER WEBER:
-
Even now she does this?
- JOHN THOMAS MOORE:
-
Yeah. She said, "You go your way and I'll go my way.
You see me, just call me Jean Banks. They still call her Sister Pastor
Jean Moore. I said, "She not no Moore. She's a
Banks. I don't know why y'all keep saying
Moore." She goes, "I don't care about my
name. I got divorce papers at home." But in the sight of God
we're still married, but man part with divorce. I said,
"O.K., I'll leave her up there. When she comes
around to preach I sit there [unclear] .
She say, "I see my husband, the other part
of me." I look at her and say, "How in the world
can she say that?" Everybody just looking at her. A whole lot
of them didn't know she was my wife. So I said,
"Yes, we was married. She's the one that filed for
the divorce, and I signed it." When she came, she was back in
her maiden name, Jean Carol Banks, and she no longer carries my name,
according to law. Everybody look at me, "Well, she still
your—" I said, "I know. But I still
don't claim her." And I don't.
[Laughter] So we'll skip that
part. Thank the Lord I'm still living and going on. God going
to fix that at his own due time. Bible say that the wheat and chaff grow
together, and in my day I going to separate them. So I don't
try to separate nothing. [claps]
He'll do it. If she can live with that on her conscience, I
sure can live and go on with the Lord. He ain't going to hold
me fault with what I didn't do. I was a husband like I ought
to, work and took care and kept the house going and everything. She
didn't like that. A whole lot more things happened but we
won't get into that. But that's the history of
me—serving the Lord, going on and God just blessing.