Rise of the South in national politics in relationship to civil rights
Reed discusses the process by which the South became a prominent region of interest to national politicians during the 1960s and 1970s. In outlining the growing importance of the South in national politics, particularly for the Republican Party, Reed argues that desegregation was an especially pivotal transformation. Throughout the passage, Reed emphasizes the role of President Richard Nixon in this process, as well as the racial attitudes of white southerners. Although he does not suggest that the South had necessarily adopted more progressive views on race, he does argue that Mississippi was the most integrated state by the mid-1970s.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Clarke Reed, April 2, 1974. Interview A-0113. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- WALTER DEVRIES:
-
One of the general complaints we've heard, particularly from
Democrats, is that none of the national candidates really want to come
South. They don't think it's necessary to do
so.
- CLARKE REED:
-
Right after Baker was elected and I never had met Baker before. I knew
most Tennessee people. Invited him down for dinner. Wrote and never did
get a goddamn answer out of him. Excuse me, never did get an answer. At
that time it was not proper to come to Mississippi. I jumped
maybe I chewed him out about it. At least the
courtesy of a reply. Like you say, back then it was not the place to
come. Percy came down to speak to a black gathering and
didn't even bother to check in years ago. Made his points and
went back to Illinois . But nobody would come.
Now, of course, everybody wants to come. Which I think's
good
- JACK BASS:
-
What accounts for that change?
- CLARKE REED:
-
Well, we're more respectable. We're not the racist
society we once were. There's no stigma. In fact
it's a plus I guess, you know, to be here. I think
it's good. Good for the country, good for the state, good for
the South. It's all around good.
- WALTER DEVRIES:
-
Could you have foreseen this change ten years ago?
- CLARKE REED:
-
It was a hope.
- JACK BASS:
-
Was the fact that you had a Republican administration in 1970 any factor
at all in the way massive desegregation was accepted? Because Nixon did
not go in with any overwhelming popularity in Mississippi in 1968.
- CLARKE REED:
-
Well… we were in an impasse. Our polls would show that people
didn't like the position we were in [on race] of being one
against the country. You know, this sort of thing. They wanted a way
out. But, you know, people still had to have their pride and what not.
Regardless of motives, they saw education suffering and, you know,
education is next to God in the average middle class person anyway,
lower middle class. That's their hope, education child to get
ahead. They may be extreme racists, but still they saw that as a threat
to the kids' education. But anyway,
they fought it, fought it, fought it. And when Nixon was elected I, in
my own mind—the courts, the judges being politicians, being
human, were afraid… they thought there was a conservative
revolution coming on which I hope so not just a way station victory.
Other side to it has all the power, in my opinion. So I think they
quickly all right, you're going to deseg now.
no, do it this fall, zap. Well, that's
the way to take a dose of medicine. Get it done. So, we sent around here
work it out under a friendly hand. The courts removed the issue from
guidelines, but in the past guidelines had been written by secretary of
HEW or some of his—that was it, those were the laws. They
were removed. When the president wrote and signed the guidelines, which
gave us time, you know, or tried to work things out, keep neighborhoods
cool and all that. Courts threw that out and said no, you're
going to do it zap, now. It got done, it worked. You know, the schools
are still in existence. And it was done with a friendly hand rather than
with a stick. So it made a hell of a difference. And Nixon,
he's the first president that hasn't been hated
down here in twenty some years, I guess. So that in itself is a big
change. More deseg happened under him than anybody and of course prior
to that some other changes had helped bring that about. Like public
accommodations bill. I would vote against then and today, but
it's probably the best thing that's happened down
here in that it got people out of the impasse if they owned the Holiday
Inn or grill and served a black guy, the whites would be very unhappy.
It was a constant affrontage to blacks. He couldn't get a
room or coffee where he wanted and that sort of thing. Now he
doesn't have the affrontery and when blacks do go in and get
served nobody turns their heads. So that one thing, I think,
removed… it was more significant than anything I can think
of.
- JACK BASS:
-
Why would you vote against it?
- CLARKE REED:
-
Well, rightly or wrongly, I think if a fellow owns a place
he's got a right to restrict it to male patrons over 40 if he
wants to. I think it was a bad law but excellent sociology. They did us
a favor, not knowing they were going to do it, by passing that.
- JACK BASS:
-
Do you believe the Nixon administration would have moved as they did on
desegregation if the courts had not made the decision they made in the
Alexandria case?
- CLARKE REED:
-
Well, the dye was so cast… wait, okay. Well, you know, who
knows. It was going to go on. He stated it, just a fact of life. I think
have had some neighborhood
schools…. in other words, we wouldn't be as
segregated as the North, but we'd probably be more segregated
than we are now. I mean by segregated there wouldn't
be… classrooms in Mississippi by and large are salt and
pepper. We'd probably still be more integrated than the rest
of the country, but not as integrated as we are.
- JACK BASS:
-
There are a lot of people who would challenge that and say
they're really not, that the schools in Mississippi are
basically integrated within the walls of the schools and segregated
within classrooms to a large extent because of pupil placement based on
testing, so forth.
- CLARKE REED:
-
Before you all leave you may want to talk to my business partner.
He's head of the school board here, I guess it's
the second biggest in the state. And it's as integrated as
any you can get. I mean it's almost quotaed. There may be
some like that, but I think by and large… I think we can
certainly say it's the most integrated state in the country.
Schools, classrooms. Again, I'm not an expert on the subject
but I've had a lot of people .
- WALTER DEVRIES:
-
How could that be accomplished so peacefully?
- CLARKE REED:
-
Well, the people wanted a way out, they were trying to fight
the thing, they were trying to accept that it was
inevitable, and a lot of people decided maybe we're better
off because of it.
- WALTER DEVRIES:
-
Nobody would have predicted that ten years ago.
- CLARKE REED:
-
No. I kind of hoped it, as I said.