Risks of battling racial injustice and secretive measures for organizing
Dabbs testifies to the danger surrounding the work she and her husband did in terms of social justice during the 1940s and 1950s. Dabbs begins by describing their friendship with Cliff and Virginia Durr and the work they did together in organizations such as the Alabama Council on Human Welfare. In particular, she recalls the secretive nature of the meetings this group held and describes the great degree of precaution activists had to take in hiding their activities. In this regard, her comments become quite revealing of the risks some southerners took in trying to battle racial injustice.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Edith Mitchell Dabbs, October 4, 1975. Interview G-0022. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
- ELIZABETH JACOWAY BURNS:
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You got to know Virginia Durr through the United Church Women?
- EDITH MITCHELL DABBS:
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Yes, I got to know her through the United Church Women. I got to know the
most liberal women that I have ever met through the United Church
Women.
- ELIZABETH JACOWAY BURNS:
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So, is that how James got to know Clifford Durr? Through your contact
with Virginia?
- EDITH MITCHELL DABBS:
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I think not. I think that he got to know him through the Alabama Council
on Human Relations, who asked him down there to speak and the Durrs were
members. The Durrs and the Moreland Smiths, and the Smiths later went to
Atlanta after he got kicked out of his business, went to Atlanta and
settled there. They had a lovely place in Atlanta, and he had worked a
lot with the Southern Regional Council and did extremely well. But those
people were the sort of people who belonged to the Alabama Council and I
believe that it was that council … weird things happened to
us in lots of places, but I think that it was the Montgomery Council
that met … nobody knew where it was going to be ahead of
time, you didn't talk about it ahead of time, but when it was
time, we were taken to the place where the meeting was. It was a Negro
church in a very rundown section of the city. I never saw the church, it
was a dark, dark night and the streets were extremely ill lit and you
couldn't see the building at all and I had to hold on to
James and somebody else who was with us. Maybe it was Cliff Durr. I had
to do it not to stumble, I couldn't see where I was walking.
We got out, we were told to park the car sort of back of the church on a
side street. The bigger street ran in front of the church and down
a little piece, there was a street light hanging,
naked bulb. We were to park back here where there were some trees and it
was in shadow and the light wouldn't reach. Then we were to
walk down to the front street, come in by the walk and come into the
front entrance of the church. Well, we did that, but there was no light
anywhere. When you got to the front door and reached out to open it, it
opened itself and we went inside and the vestibule or whatever we went
into was black dark. Then we were taken to a dimly lit next section and
from there into a back room where the windows were all heavily draped
and it was brightly lighted. It was a small room and was jammed full,
people were standing around the walls. It was packed. Aubrey Williams
was there, I remember that. That was before we had lunch with him that
time and I didn't know him. James had known him for a long
time.
- ELIZABETH JACOWAY BURNS:
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This was in Montgomery?
- EDITH MITCHELL DABBS:
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Montgomery, yes. He had been there for some time. I knew that he was
very, very ill. Virginia said that he had been getting worse steadily. I
happened to notice a time when he reached into his pocket and put
something into his mouth and I knew that he was taking medication and
was very ill, but he was there, still fighting to the last breath. Well,
anyhow, we went back into that room and James talked to them and they
talked about their problems. We knew … I don't
know how we learned these things, where we learned them or from whom,
but while we were meeting back there, the police were patrolling the
area trying to find where the meeting was. They had heard there was such
a thing planned and they meant to find out and break it up.
- ELIZABETH JACOWAY BURNS:
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This was the Alabama Council on Human Welfare?
- EDITH MITCHELL DABBS:
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Yes. The Alabama Council on Human Relations. It was a purely voluntary
thing, a personal sort of thing that was not connected with any
. I remember that when we were all through
talking, several people went out a few at a time. Aubrey was among the
first. I remember that Aubrey couldn't stand to be around
people. He couldn't hide the way he felt.
So he just eased out like he was going to get a drink of water or
something and didn't come back and then somebody else did and
that was the end of the meeting. After James talked, they asked him some
questions and they exchanged problems and that, sort of thing and it got
real quiet, the room began to thin somewhat and I thought it was a
little bit odd. Because I hadn't seen a meeting sort of
dissolve like that, but it was carefully done. No crowd of people left
that church that night, you see. They just disappeared into the night a
few at a time or one at a time in different directions. We
didn't go out the way that we had come in. When we went out,
all we had to do was step out of the back, that was a corner room of the
building that they met in as it turned out and the lights were cut down
very, very low and we were almost the last people out. We were let out
the back door. I remember the man who showed us out cautioned me
…I don't know who he was, he was a black man, he
was very courteous and thoughtful, I don't know whether he
was the minister or the chairman of that group. Anyway, he was very
active in it. Anyway, as James and I went out to go together, he said,
"Now, be careful, Mrs. Dabbs, there is a step right
there." And he reached out as though he were going to steady
me, James was on the other side and we were holding on to each other,
and the man reached out and said, "Be careful, Mrs.
Dabbs." Then, he pulled his hand back. He realized, I suppose,
that in case anybody was watching, he wouldn't dare reach out
and be kind and thoughtful to a white person. He wouldn't
dare touch somebody.
- ELIZABETH JACOWAY BURNS:
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Surely not a white woman.
- EDITH MITCHELL DABBS:
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Certainly not a white woman and certainly not if the police were watching
because that was all it would take. He said, "I'm
sorry not to give you a light on that step. Just go very slowly and be
careful." There was a light right overhead, but he
didn't dare turn it on. We could barely see the outline of
our car just fifteen feet away at the edge of the curb. He took the
safest way out for us. I don't mind telling you that I was
relieved when we got several blocks away and were sure we
weren't being followed.
- ELIZABETH JACOWAY BURNS:
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Were you aware of the danger?
- EDITH MITCHELL DABBS:
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Yes. Scared half to death.