Trying to expand Presbyterian church's appeal to African Americans
Caldwell was one of few black Presbyterians, so he was asked to travel the country to drum up black membership. He recalls some of his experiences, including scolding Presbyterian leaders for their derogatory comments about Martin Luther King and finding a black minister to incite black Christians to join the church. Many black ministers were uncomfortable preaching to white congregations.
Citing this Excerpt
Oral History Interview with Edwin Caldwell, March 2, 2001. Interview K-0202. Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) in the Southern Oral History Program Collection, Southern Historical Collection, Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Full Text of the Excerpt
I was in the Church of Reconciliation as one of the first blacks in the
Church. Church of Reconciliation is on Elliot Road. When it split off
from the Presbyterian Church downtown they wanted to start an integrated
church. The only way to do that was to start it from the beginning. They
asked me if I would be involved in that, so I was involved in the
Presbyterian Church. Well if you are black then you get up on all the
committees of the Orange Presbyterian. I was on the Presbyterian State
Senate attended all those meetings. I was a national leader in the
Presbyterian Church. Presbyterian Church was the southern part of the
Presbyterian Church, after the Civil War they split off so you don't
find many blacks sitting in the Presbyterian Church. They sent me away,
where did we go? Louisiana, Alabama somewhere. Mobile Alabama. We had a
national meeting. Generally you don't get to go to these national
meetings, you almost have to be dead. You have to have proven yourself.
Because I am black I get to go as a young man, because they wanted to
show me off. If you really wanted to know, they wanted to show me off. I
always remember, there must have been seven eight hundred people in this
convention I wasn't going to say anything. I remember them saying all
these derogatory things about Reverend King. These were church people
and they were calling him communist and saying he is doing this and
doing that. They are going to pass these resolutions against Dr. King. I
hadn't planned to say anything but, I marched up the pulpit. They had
microphones strategically located at different places. I didn't go to no
microphone I went in the pulpit. I told them people, "You are
church people, I can't believe the kinds of things about somebody that I
think-you all are talking like I am not even here. I am a
black man and you are saying all these things and you are supposed to be
church people. I don't have any business being in this church."
You could hear pin drop. I mean I let them have it.
When I sat down I got a standing ovation, that's when I knew that I was
able to speak and I was able to get people to listen. I wouldn't have
stood up in front of those people.
Let me tell you one other thing that they asked me to do, because there
were so few blacks maybe three or four of us in that whole thing. The
guy from the pulpit learned my name he said, "We are going to
ask Ed Caldwell to lead us in a word of prayer." And he closed
his eyes, I was going like "No, I am not going to stand up
there." It was silent in there for a while and I think he
opened his eyes, he opened one eye and I am going like this so he
started to pray. I have had quite a few experiences, both in the
Presbyterian Church as well as School Board. I really like Presbyterian
Church, I got to be a leader in there. I just got to be a leader, people
began to look up to me. I got to travel all over the Southeast for the
Presbyterian Church. I got to travel because they were wondering why
more blacks wouldn't join the Presbyterian Church, for a long time I was
one of the few. That remained, people would come and then they would
leave. I hung in there with them, because what they were trying to do I
thought was good. I said, "Well if you want blacks to join us
then you have to have something in here that they can identify with. We
are going to have a black minister." They agreed. We went all
over the nation trying to recruit a black minister. One of the things
about blacks they would let us have it. "That church up there
you all are not serious about bringing on a black minister." We
invited them to come up and preach, a couple of them we offered them the
job. We said, "We offer you the job. If you want the job, you
got it." They had to do some soul searching. A lot of them just
couldn't pull it off being a black minister in a predominately white
church. We had some assistant ministers that were black. We were very
serious about finding a black minister. We had a
few assistant white ministers that were very good. It was a liberal
church. We experimented with worship and different things. We had Norman
Vincent Peale's son there, he was minister for a while. He was over a
Duke University. We were able to go over to the University of Chicago,
we went to Memphis Tennessee, there was a guy named Eizequial Bell. He
was a fiery thing, in Memphis Tennessee. He was in the Civil Rights
thing, everything he was out there, had a lot of pull. So we asked him
to come. He was one of the ones that didn't think we were serious and we
offered him the job. He turned it down and said, "I think I
need to stay here in Memphis." We went down to Sanford, there
was a Presbyterian Church there, but its Southern Part it's the other
Presbyterian Church. We offered him the job he turned it down. We got
fellow to come here named Marion Phillips. Marion is over in the medical
school now in the dean's office. He stayed here for a while and
preached. I think Marion found it very difficult trying to gear his
sermons to a wide variation of people. I used to get on Marion all the
time, "Look, don't come with that kind of sermon. You have to
give me a little soul here." Marion's a very good speaker and a
very good storyteller. Storytelling is what makes the black church go,
you tell stories. It's a performance. Marion had this down pat. Marion
stayed there for a while and then it got to be too much for him. One
thing that I always had is I was grounded because I knew where I was
coming from and things that people used to say to me that I ought to do.
I'd weigh it but then I'd tell them, "This is what you need to
do." There was a lady who had a beautiful voice name was Joyce
Peck. Her husband name is Bill Peck they were in the religion
department. Joyce could just sing. She would just sing all these
operetta kind of songs. I one day said to Joyce, she said, "Ed
why can't we get more people." I said,
"Joyce you gotten sing a little soul, sing a spiritual every
once in a while. I like your voice but you don't move me. I want to hear
something that goes up my spine." I can say those kinds of
things. Minister at the time was named Boyd Suil. Boyd's father was
Malcolm Suil who was Attorney General of North Carolina at that time.
Boyd was torn because he wanted to be in politics. He went into religion
because he didn't want to compete with his father. Boyd was always
involved in politics, that's how we met. I used to really get on Boyd.
You have to understand that there were people who loved Boyd. Boyd was
this young fellow, all the women love young ministers. I used to get on
Boyd. Boyd would go off on the wrong track I would get on him. We became
friends. I pretty much ran the Church of Reconciliation. When they
started hero-worshiping Boyd I just get up and tell them, "Boyd
is not the church, Boyd is the minister of the church." One
time Boyd was about to leave and I told Boyd, "You are my
friend and I wish you good luck, but you are not the Church of
Reconciliation." I told the people, "You all hang in
here. We have to let Boyd go, he is no the Church." I was able
to get up and say those kinds of things.